Are you an atheist? (27 Viewers)

Are you an atheist?


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Merry Christmas to you.

It seems to me that you are denying the ability of an All-powerful All-knowing God to know the future.
Are you saying He does not know what you (or anyone else) will do tomorrow or next week. If so then it would appear that his powers are limited and so he is not All-powerful. Please let us know which is the case

Hi Rabbie: Thank you, I and my family had a very good Christmas, all the kids and grand-kids were over and so far, all are healthy. I am really blessed.

Thought I answered this one on post #3372. Guess not. Lets try again.

What I think you are saying is: God is limited in his power or he would be leading us around like we do our dogs and horses! NO? Then lets start at the basics

What we do know : When we are born, our name is written in the Book of Life and according to the Bible, in that Book of life, Our days are numbered.

The rest in my opinion is conjecture. He has given us a brain for reasoning. Something every other animal on earth does not have beyond that reasoning required to obtain the next meal. Now, to me that means a free mind full of free choices

Yes, he in my opinion is powerful enough to make-up or change our minds and who is to say he does not from time to time. But why did he let his only son (a son of Man) die in order for the sins of mankind to be washed away. If he designed our fate, lead us to our destiny there would be no need of his son's death, there would be no sinning.

Only in the argument that man is free to determine his destiny during the time after his birth and prior to his death will God's son, Jesus Christ's death make any sense.

Of course you have the laws of man to deal with but that same FREE mind can write those laws.

Rabbie: I really don't know how to put it any clearer. Maybe it is because I believe in Jesus Christ and his Father without hesitation.

Hope you have a Prosperous and Safe New Year!

Bladerunner
 
What we do know : When we are born, our name is written in the Book of Life and according to the Bible, in that Book of life, Our days are numbered.

The rest in my opinion is conjecture.

It is obviously all conjecture when it comes to religion.

"Our name is written in the Book of Life"?????? Really?
 
As a simple matter of human nature, each of us believes as we do because someone taught us that way, and then we learned from others and melded their ideas into our own psyche to become our current belief. For some of us, that might have started out as being raised into a given religion by your parents. This is the typical way it starts. For others, this might mean a change of religion. Say, for example, being raised as a Catholic but then changing to some Protestant denomination - or vice versa.

Then there are those of us who went through an intensely emotional period that forced us to totally rethink, and in some cases, deeply analyze our beliefs. I personally fall into this category. Some years ago I lost my mother to Alzheimer's Disease. During that time I was still Methodist and a believer. I turned to the Bible seeking comfort, solace, understanding, and in general, some easing of the terrible pain of seeing my mother go through the terrible progression of that disease all the way to stage IV (alive but generally unresponsive, vegetative, but technically not yet brain-dead). That is when you ask questions that start with "WHY."

All of the questions I asked led me to the same answer - read the Bible to find the reason. But the more I read, the less I trusted it. All of the answers people gave me led to the same conclusion. It is that all answers of the general form "God works in mysterious ways" are equivalent to saying, "We don't know either." Answers like "We are not meant to know God's will" are essentially useless because they offer no comfort.

If you look in Ecclesiastes or Psalms, you will find passages that tell you that "Dead is dead forever." OK, more eloquently phrased, but basically you are born, you live, you die; once dead, you have no thought, no memory, end of story. That was one of the few parts that made any sense whatever.

That is when I looked at the Bible itself as a reference for God - and realized that it is nothing but a bunch of stories who thought there was this supernatural being who had something to do with reality, so they did things as though God mattered. OK, great - but where's the proof? When I asked that question, all of the really showy proofs turn out to have no historical corroboration from contemporary mundane authors. There are no relics that prove anything other than that certain cities existed historically.

The more I studied the subject, the more I realized that these Biblical stories were in the same exact category as Aesop's Fables or Grimm's Fairy Tales. They are stories used to preserve traditions by allegory. They are stories used to amuse, amaze, and sometimes to frighten small children eager for diversion in a primitive culture that had no radio, TV, CDs, DVDs, iPads, PCs or consoles with video games. These were stories for kids who gathered around a hearth or campfire to hear the tribal/village storyteller recite the stories he learned by rote as an apprentice to the previous storyteller.

Put in that context, the Biblical stories provide insights to an older culture and they describe a type of morality based on fear of the supernatural. But the price of religion based on fear is a creeping paranoia, that feeling that someone is looking over your shoulder and judging you. There is also that strange method of trying to avoid other "sins" of various types - giving praise to God for what YOU do and seeking God's guidance. But waiting for an absentee deity is like waiting for Godot - He never shows up.

My own pain was eventually resolved by resolving the cognitive dissonance of having a belief ingrained during childhood that turned out to be based on NO evidence, NO logic, and NO testable phenomena. I had to face the pain of having been lied to by my parents. The anger of "How DARE they tell me such lies?" was eventually assuaged by the fact that they were merely repeating the lies someone else told them. Then came forgiveness for being frail and human.

Somewhere during that terrible period I became a budding atheist. My mother's death took away the continuous pain of seeing her degenerate from a lively, happy, loving woman to a lump of unresponsive but not yet dead flesh. But the seed of thought had been planted. Now, I realize that part of the problem is that we are taught very strongly in our youth. When we confront our teachings, the love for those who taught us makes us unreceptive to the idea that they lied to us, or at least spread a lie that had been taught to them.

Just one man's story of a journey to a different kind of enlightenment, with the closing thought that it took a powerful situation to enable me to break through powerful childhood conditioning. This is why when someone is unable to break out of the vise-grip of religion that I can forgive them, for it is clear that they have not yet had their own personal moment of anguish that led to that self-examination.
 
In most cases non-believers use the absence of morality to commit crimes against humanity. Unfortunately, some believers use greed to do the same. There are a lot of good people out there that are non-believers and I have worked with a many of them. Because I do not believe the way they believe does not mean I think they are scum, etc. Rem tolerance and hatred are very different.
This is from one of the Balderunner posts. But this is not important for me.
I noticed that this idea come again and again along the thread.

Can someone show me a single example where the non-believers started a "war" against believers ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

Can you (anyone) give me a link like this where to see that one (or more) non-believer(s) kill others because they are believers ?

I am from the old communist area.
I saw (really, with my eyes) how the churches was moved (moved, not destroyed) because the area must be used for something else (a lake for electricity, a road etc). And the communists was non-believers at all.

What the believers do along the history ? They destroyed the churches of other believers. They killed him. They burned him.

No. Fore sure I can't be a believer. Even for the minimum reason that I can't kill.

Cheers !
 
I am not really sure what you are asking? Please help me out here?

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

Before I explain, I think it important that you understand that non-believers in this thread are classed as "not knowing". I don't think any "non-believer" here takes Satan's point of view of believing in God but rejecting how He does things.

Now, Jesus dying on the cross says "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."

Doesn't the son of God saying such a thing concerning those who "do not know" make you reconsider stating:

If you do not believe then you do not follow his commandments. If you do not follow his commandments then how can you expect him to accept you into his kingdom of heaven.

with such certainty?
 
As a simple matter of human nature, each of us believes as we do because someone taught us that way, and then we learned from others and melded their ideas into our own psyche to become our current belief. For some of us, that might have started out as being raised into a given religion by your parents. This is the typical way it starts. For others, this might mean a change of religion. Say, for example, being raised as a Catholic but then changing to some Protestant denomination - or vice versa.

Then there are those of us who went through an intensely emotional period that forced us to totally rethink, and in some cases, deeply analyze our beliefs. I personally fall into this category. Some years ago I lost my mother to Alzheimer's Disease. During that time I was still Methodist and a believer. I turned to the Bible seeking comfort, solace, understanding, and in general, some easing of the terrible pain of seeing my mother go through the terrible progression of that disease all the way to stage IV (alive but generally unresponsive, vegetative, but technically not yet brain-dead). That is when you ask questions that start with "WHY."

All of the questions I asked led me to the same answer - read the Bible to find the reason. But the more I read, the less I trusted it. All of the answers people gave me led to the same conclusion. It is that all answers of the general form "God works in mysterious ways" are equivalent to saying, "We don't know either." Answers like "We are not meant to know God's will" are essentially useless because they offer no comfort.

If you look in Ecclesiastes or Psalms, you will find passages that tell you that "Dead is dead forever." OK, more eloquently phrased, but basically you are born, you live, you die; once dead, you have no thought, no memory, end of story. That was one of the few parts that made any sense whatever.

That is when I looked at the Bible itself as a reference for God - and realized that it is nothing but a bunch of stories who thought there was this supernatural being who had something to do with reality, so they did things as though God mattered. OK, great - but where's the proof? When I asked that question, all of the really showy proofs turn out to have no historical corroboration from contemporary mundane authors. There are no relics that prove anything other than that certain cities existed historically.

The more I studied the subject, the more I realized that these Biblical stories were in the same exact category as Aesop's Fables or Grimm's Fairy Tales. They are stories used to preserve traditions by allegory. They are stories used to amuse, amaze, and sometimes to frighten small children eager for diversion in a primitive culture that had no radio, TV, CDs, DVDs, iPads, PCs or consoles with video games. These were stories for kids who gathered around a hearth or campfire to hear the tribal/village storyteller recite the stories he learned by rote as an apprentice to the previous storyteller.

Put in that context, the Biblical stories provide insights to an older culture and they describe a type of morality based on fear of the supernatural. But the price of religion based on fear is a creeping paranoia, that feeling that someone is looking over your shoulder and judging you. There is also that strange method of trying to avoid other "sins" of various types - giving praise to God for what YOU do and seeking God's guidance. But waiting for an absentee deity is like waiting for Godot - He never shows up.

My own pain was eventually resolved by resolving the cognitive dissonance of having a belief ingrained during childhood that turned out to be based on NO evidence, NO logic, and NO testable phenomena. I had to face the pain of having been lied to by my parents. The anger of "How DARE they tell me such lies?" was eventually assuaged by the fact that they were merely repeating the lies someone else told them. Then came forgiveness for being frail and human.

Somewhere during that terrible period I became a budding atheist. My mother's death took away the continuous pain of seeing her degenerate from a lively, happy, loving woman to a lump of unresponsive but not yet dead flesh. But the seed of thought had been planted. Now, I realize that part of the problem is that we are taught very strongly in our youth. When we confront our teachings, the love for those who taught us makes us unreceptive to the idea that they lied to us, or at least spread a lie that had been taught to them.

Just one man's story of a journey to a different kind of enlightenment, with the closing thought that it took a powerful situation to enable me to break through powerful childhood conditioning. This is why when someone is unable to break out of the vise-grip of religion that I can forgive them, for it is clear that they have not yet had their own personal moment of anguish that led to that self-examination.

My condolences on your loss. In the end it all comes down to one choice. Everyone has to make it and it appears you have made yours.

Happy New Year! :>)

Bladerunner
 
This is from one of the Balderunner posts. But this is not important for me.
I noticed that this idea come again and again along the thread.

Can someone show me a single example where the non-believers started a "war" against believers ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

Can you (anyone) give me a link like this where to see that one (or more) non-believer(s) kill others because they are believers ?

I am from the old communist area.
I saw (really, with my eyes) how the churches was moved (moved, not destroyed) because the area must be used for something else (a lake for electricity, a road etc). And the communists was non-believers at all.

What the believers do along the history ? They destroyed the churches of other believers. They killed him. They burned him.

No. Fore sure I can't be a believer. Even for the minimum reason that I can't kill.

Cheers !

I guess it depends upon what you call non-believers. There is a war against Christianity around the world. Look to the middle east where Christian are be killed just because they are Christians and believe different from others around them. There is also war against Christianity in the U.S. today as well. It appears the Liberal far left (non-believers) need to remove the church or at least minimize their influence on the political stage. I am afraid before long we too will fall in a war simply just to preserve our rights and religious beliefs. Whether that war is of words or by the sword is really up to them.

Every Communist nation is considered a non-believer by most. usually This is not true for that nations people. Usually the non-believer are part of the ruling or Political class. Being from Romania you should know that Russia moved those churches because it was easier to move them than to defeat Christianity itself. At least when they moved the churches they maintained some control over the population..

******
"What the believers do along the history ? They destroyed the churches of other believers. They killed him. They burned him."

Yes, America was a country of believers in 1940's. We along with a lot of help of other nations destroyed everything we could of a nation that had become non-believers and was forcing their way of life on other nations (Poland, Russia, Africa, and all of Europe.).

Yes the Roman church did kill him because they did not believe.

Don't know about he burning?



Have a Happy and Safe New Year! :>)

Bladerunner
 
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Before I explain, I think it important that you understand that non-believers in this thread are classed as "not knowing". I don't think any "non-believer" here takes Satan's point of view of believing in God but rejecting how He does things.

Now, Jesus dying on the cross says "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."

Doesn't the son of God saying such a thing concerning those who "do not know" make you reconsider stating:



with such certainty?

***
Hi dan-cat: you said: "Before I explain, I think it important that you understand that non-believers in this thread are classed as "not knowing"."

* I disagree. By saying 'not-knowing' I refer to someone who has never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ. After they have heard the gospel, they then have a choice to make. Its that simple.
***
"I don't think any "non-believer" here takes Satan's point of view of believing in God but rejecting how He does things."

* First, Satan was a fallen angel thrown out of the kingdom of heaven. He knew God directly! His beliefs were not the same as those of God. Therefore he is a non-believer. Like I said,,,,,,,,, YOU have a choice, and that choice can change up-until your death.

To Believe or Not to Believe is the question?

***
"Now, Jesus dying on the cross says "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.""

"Doesn't the son of God saying such a thing concerning those who "do not know" make you reconsider stating:"

*No! A lot of them (Israelites) including the hierarchy of the Roman church (except one- Nicodemus) simply did not believe. So non-believers kill Jesus. After he ask his father to forgive them, they then had a choice, the same choice as you have today.

Have a great coming New Year! :>)

Bladerunner
 
Yes, America was a country of believers in 1940's. We along with a lot of help of other nations destroyed everything we could of a nation that had become non-believers and was forcing their way of life on other nations (Poland, Russia, Africa, and all of Europe.).

The notion that Hitler's Germany was an atheist cause is a popular myth among the religious.

In fact Hitler was a Catholic and remained so. Moreover the Church never excommunicated him. Given the amount of collusion between them it is hardly surprising.

Far from being a war caused by atheists, WW2 was a classic case of presuming superiority, vilifying those whose wealth is sought and setting about taking it by force if necessary. All the while there is a notion of righteousness by the perpetrator.

The WW2 parallels to the Hebrew genocides in the Bible are remarkable.

Hitler has the Master Race. The Hebrews has the Chosen Race. The Hebrews worked with their God to be rewarded with their Promised Land. Hitler had the Fatherland.

They both vilified those they intended to conquest and both slaughtered men women and children in two of the most brutal genocides ever chronicled in the history of mankind.

Some would say it is irony that the Nazis turned upon the Jews in exactly the same way the Hebrews massacred the people in the lands they invaded. But it isn't irony at all. They were all reading the wisdom of their master from the same hideous book.

The big difference for humanity of today is the way we treat these two monumental parts of our past. Nazism is acknowledged as an ugly fascist philosophy that no decent person would ever want to be involved with.

Bizarrely the Bible with all its objectively brutal fascist philosophy is upheld as evidence for the glory of a supposedly loving God.

The Bible, its prequels and sequels in the Abrahamic series are not things we should be inspired by but are all fundamentally at the core of what has been wrong with humanity for millennia.

And that is the propensity of the religious to be utterly unreasonable, holding back the intellectual, material and moral progress of our societies by insisting that the supposed wisdom of some ancient arrogant misogynists is the best we could ever become.
 
* I disagree. By saying 'not-knowing' I refer to someone who has never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ. After they have heard the gospel, they then have a choice to make. Its that simple.

How does this fit in with Jesus's reference to those who do not know? Surely when he said those words he's not referring to those who had never heard his preachings but rather those who had heard (eg. Pontius Pilate) but failed to comprehend.
 
Hi Rabbie: Thank you, I and my family had a very good Christmas, all the kids and grand-kids were over and so far, all are healthy. I am really blessed.

Thought I answered this one on post #3372. Guess not. Lets try again.

What I think you are saying is: God is limited in his power or he would be leading us around like we do our dogs and horses! NO? Then lets start at the basics

What we do know : When we are born, our name is written in the Book of Life and according to the Bible, in that Book of life, Our days are numbered.

The rest in my opinion is conjecture. He has given us a brain for reasoning. Something every other animal on earth does not have beyond that reasoning required to obtain the next meal. Now, to me that means a free mind full of free choices

Yes, he in my opinion is powerful enough to make-up or change our minds and who is to say he does not from time to time. But why did he let his only son (a son of Man) die in order for the sins of mankind to be washed away. If he designed our fate, lead us to our destiny there would be no need of his son's death, there would be no sinning.

Only in the argument that man is free to determine his destiny during the time after his birth and prior to his death will God's son, Jesus Christ's death make any sense.

Of course you have the laws of man to deal with but that same FREE mind can write those laws.

Rabbie: I really don't know how to put it any clearer. Maybe it is because I believe in Jesus Christ and his Father without hesitation.

Hope you have a Prosperous and Safe New Year!

Bladerunner
I am afraid you still have not answered the question which is quite simple.

Does God in your opinion know what is going to happen to any individual?

If your answer to this is "No" then His powers are limited and He is not all-powerfull.

If your answer is "No" then every life is predetermined and "Free will" is illusory.

Of course if those of us who do not believe in God are correct we do have "Free Will" and all the responsibility for our actions that that entails.

I hope you and yours have a Happy and Prosperous New Year
 
The notion that Hitler's Germany was an atheist cause is a popular myth among the religious.

In fact Hitler was a Catholic and remained so. Moreover the Church never excommunicated him. Given the amount of collusion between them it is hardly surprising.

Far from being a war caused by atheists, WW2 was a classic case of presuming superiority, vilifying those whose wealth is sought and setting about taking it by force if necessary. All the while there is a notion of righteousness by the perpetrator.

The WW2 parallels to the Hebrew genocides in the Bible are remarkable.

Hitler has the Master Race. The Hebrews has the Chosen Race. The Hebrews worked with their God to be rewarded with their Promised Land. Hitler had the Fatherland.

They both vilified those they intended to conquest and both slaughtered men women and children in two of the most brutal genocides ever chronicled in the history of mankind.

Some would say it is irony that the Nazis turned upon the Jews in exactly the same way the Hebrews massacred the people in the lands they invaded. But it isn't irony at all. They were all reading the wisdom of their master from the same hideous book.

The big difference for humanity of today is the way we treat these two monumental parts of our past. Nazism is acknowledged as an ugly fascist philosophy that no decent person would ever want to be involved with.

Bizarrely the Bible with all its objectively brutal fascist philosophy is upheld as evidence for the glory of a supposedly loving God.

The Bible, its prequels and sequels in the Abrahamic series are not things we should be inspired by but are all fundamentally at the core of what has been wrong with humanity for millennia.

And that is the propensity of the religious to be utterly unreasonable, holding back the intellectual, material and moral progress of our societies by insisting that the supposed wisdom of some ancient arrogant misogynists is the best we could ever become.
***
Hitler supported the Deutsche Christen church which rejected the Hebrew origins of the Gospel and stated first that Jesus was an Aryan and also that Paul as a Jew had falsified Jesus's message, a theme Hitler repeatedly mentioned in private conversations. In October 1941, when Hitler made the decision to murder the Jews, he repeated that very proclamation.[7] Once in power, the Hitler regime sought to reduce the influence of Christianity on German society, though by 1939, despite the encouragement of the Nazi Party, only around 5% of Germans had declared themselves neo-pagan deists (gottglaubig) or atheists.[8] The majority of the three million Nazi Party members continued to pay their church taxes and register as Christians.[9

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_views

Have great 2014 :>)

Bladerunner
 
How does this fit in with Jesus's reference to those who do not know? Surely when he said those words he's not referring to those who had never heard his preachings but rather those who had heard (eg. Pontius Pilate) but failed to comprehend.

They say that "Hind Site is 20/20"

If Jesus remained in the grave, did not arise on the third day after his death on the cross, would it make a difference in how people thought of the Christian religion? By all means 'Yes'. He would have been considered just another profit like John the Baptist and no more.

The multitude heard his teachings much like a minister would give his congregation on Sunday morning. They saw his miracles, but then Paul also performed miracles in the name of Jesus Christ. And when Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead a lot more of them believed. Even after all of this, there were still a lot of them that believed Jesus to be a Blasphemer. Then you have the leaders of the Roman church who actually sentenced Jesus to death. For what ever reason they could not or would not accept that he was the true king of mankind and the son of God that had been foretold in prophecy. They also did not have ability to know that when they killed him, he would arise on the third day.

Hind-Site.

That is what we have now. The teachings of Jesus include his death and resurrection.

"Forgive them, for they know not what they do". They knew not that they were killing their savior, the son of God. Everything changed after that faithful day for everybody.

Hope you have a good and profitable 2014. :>)

Bladerunner
 
I am afraid you still have not answered the question which is quite simple.

Does God in your opinion know what is going to happen to any individual?

If your answer to this is "No" then His powers are limited and He is not all-powerfull.

If your answer is "No" then every life is predetermined and "Free will" is illusory.

Of course if those of us who do not believe in God are correct we do have "Free Will" and all the responsibility for our actions that that entails.

I hope you and yours have a Happy and Prosperous New Year


YES! He knows and yet you still have free unlimited unrestricted choice(s).

Imagine a wheel, you in the center and coming out of the center is an unlimited number of spokes upon spokes upon spokes. Each spoke is connected to a specific place on a rim (the results of your choice(s), your destiny). Like a good chess master he knows the end result for each move (choice). Unlike a chess master, he knows this for everyone,all 6.5 billion on earth and all other beings on worlds in all universes. Unlike a good chess master, he does not restrict or manipulate your moves (choices).

On the other hand, you salvation depends on only two choices out of the millions you make throughout you lifetime. You either Believe in Jesus Christ or you do not believe in him. The choices are yours and yours alone. By being Agnostic you have made your choice although until you die, you can change that choice.

Now have 2 hours before 2014: Hope everyone has a good one..:>)

Bladerunner
 
@bladerunner
About your post #3421.
This post is intended to be an answer for me while yo quote my previous post.
Bu it isn't.
My question was:
Can someone show me a single example where the non-believers started a "war" against believers ?
Your "answer":
I guess it depends upon what you call non-believers. There is a war against Christianity around the world. Look to the middle east where Christian are be killed just because they are Christians and believe different from others around them
So, not the non-believers kill the Christians. The killers are other believers.
What you name non-believers ? The people that are not Christians ?
In my opinion, Ben Laden is a believer. A very true believer. Because he believe that Allah is the God and He (Allah) is the single God. As well as you. The single difference is the god's name.

You say:
There is also war against Christianity in the U.S. today as well. It appears the Liberal far left (non-believers) need to remove the church or at least minimize their influence on the political stage
Do you remember Christ's words ?
"Give to Cesar what the Cesar own" (not sure about my English, but sure that you understand what I mean). Why the churches activate in the political area ? Why the clerical wish to activate in the political area ? Should I understand that is write, somewhere, in the Bible, something like this : "You, the believers, must take the political power or, if you will fail, you will end up to Hell ?"
I have read the Bible but I can't remember this part. Are you so kind to point me in the right direction ?
Every Communist nation is considered a non-believer by most. usually This is not true for that nations people. Usually the non-believer are part of the ruling or Political class
Indeed. And this non-believer class don't persecuted the believers. Just ignore they.
What happen when the believers have take the power ?
Inquisition, Giordano Bruno, witches, "et pour se mouve", burns, and the list is open.
Being from Romania you should know that Russia moved those churches because it was easier to move them than to defeat Christianity itself
Again I must say that you are right (it is easier to move a church than to defeat Christianity), but no logic. The Christianity can't be defeated by destroying one or more churches. But the Russians (and the Romanians too) can save (don't know grammar for the past) a lot of money by using dinamit. But the don't used this. Why ?
At least when they moved the churches they maintained some control over the population
????????????? How ?
Yes the Roman church did kill him because they did not believe.
Any time you reduce the believers to Christians. Why ? There are a lot of other believers. Just they are not Christians. And, like all other believers, say, about all others, that this are non-believers.
Don't know about he burning?
Indeed ? Should I understand that you never heard until now about Inquisition ?
Have a Happy and Safe New Year!
Thank you for this. And believe me :) I wish this for each one from the Terra. I don't care if his god is named Dumnezeu (Romanian language), Zeus, Jupiter, Allah or if he think that is no god in the sky or under the ground.
 
Oh Mihail
You hit the nail on the head, ( an English phrase meaning you got it absolutely correct) with this statement

So, not the non-believers kill the Christians. The killers are other believers.
What you name non-believers ? The people that are not Christians ?
In my opinion, Ben Laden is a believer. A very true believer. Because he believe that Allah is the God and He (Allah) is the single God. As well as you. The single difference is the god's name.

This is the single biggest problem with religious folk. They don't realise that if circumstances of their birth had been different they would probably be believing in a different religion.
Ok I know some change, but for those disparate to believe or who believe without question the early brainwashing is difficult to discard.

Brian
 
YES! He knows and yet you still have free unlimited unrestricted choice(s).


Bladerunner

:confused:
If the answer is YES then our life must be predetermined, we may appear to make choices but they must have been preprogrammed into us.

Saying that he knows what we are going to do but that we have a choice that can change our life is illogical.
I hope that the logic you use in your programs is better. ;)

Brian
 
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@bladerunner
What you name non-believers ?

Good question.

Blade already said we are all believers. He recons atheists also have a faith in no god and it is really just another religion.
 
The impression we get in the UK is that most Americans are Jewish. Or at least most of the successful ones are.

Col
 
The impression we get in the UK is that most Americans are Jewish. Or at least most of the successful ones are.
The same impression in Romania.

Personally I don't know the truth about this.
But, if this is true, I think I have the explanation:

Their religion is the single I know (I read this somewhere) that "force" the younger to go to school.
To school at all, not to the religion's school. (unlike the most other religions that damned the non-religions knowledge).
 

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