Are you an atheist? (3 Viewers)

[Bladerunner]

How about the simple fact that the Bible was still written by MAN. The Bible itself says MAN is inperfect. What if we got stuff wrong? Anything is possible, isn't it? With so many people dipping their hands in writing the Bible, even if "god" told them to write it, what if they misunderstood something?

Moses is attributed for writing the first five books contained in the 'KJV'. The rest of the books were also written by the human hand. Yes, we all know man is imperfect and yes, 'anything is possible'----except the laws of Physics... LOL.. a little lite humor...

I understand what you are saying and this is a debate I am having with another on this thread. However, there are people in this thread that would not believe it if it were "written by Gods own hands" (Charlton Heston in the Ten Commandments) in front of them.

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

Crow-magnum .... LOL .. sounds like an NRA-version of world's history

This omnipotent and omniscient guy called God can settle all the disputes by writing a comment here. Or appearing on a talkshow. Or setting up a page on FB ... and a 1-800 number. Hello ????

I have a feeling you would not believe it in any form. But your right he could settle this and his son Jesus will at Armageddon!

Sometimes Its hard to take that first step even when you can see the ground before you.

Have a nice day :>)


Bladerunner

 

[Libre]

I have a feeling you would not believe it in any form. But your right he could settle this and his son Jesus will at Armageddon!

Sometimes Its hard to take that first step even when you can see the ground before you.

Have a nice day :>)


Bladerunner

Is Christianity a monotheistic religion or is it polytheistic?
I ask because if the Old Man (God - the creator) is God, and His son is also God, and the Holy Ghost is roaming around there too, I'm counting three.
Then the Catholics also worship Mary, the Mother of God, and it's gettin' kind of crowded up there on the heavenly alter.

We Jews (those who aren't atheists, anyway) say:
Shema Yisrael, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Echad
translation:
Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One

That's ONE, not three (or four, or more).
The Jews are very specific about this point.
The Jewish God has to be a pretty lonely deity. At least your God has a family life.
Not that the Jews have it right and everyone else has it wrong.
I don't think any biblical or formal conception of God could be accurate.

 

[Bladerunner]

=David R;1328128]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version#Translation

Hi David R.

The problem with some Christians is they just MAKE THINGS UP rather than admit they are wrong.

Thank you saying I just made things up, I kind of thought of it as a ' Working Hypothesis'. To your second statement, I can no more admit that my faith in God is wrong than you can denounce your faith in naturalism, evolution and science.

This part I did not write correctly but left it hanging:
"but the current KJV of the bible is based entirely upon the original writings of Moses".
Should have been; 'and other authors'.

David R.: The KJV did nothing of the sort, it's a Christian-focused retranslation of earlier Jewish translations and Latin manuscripts..

Bladerunner:
I have always heard that the problem with the bible was the translation after re-translation of its scriptures. Yes, there are several versions out there (Islam for one) but the current KJV of the bible is based entirely upon the original writings of Moses. From all the info I can find, the translations from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek scrolls are very accurate to each other with only slight meanings of specific words being changed.

The present KJV of the Bible was commissioned by King James VI . "The translation was done by 47 scholars, all of whom were members of the Church of England.". It was rewritten using The King James Bible was created using the Masoretic text (OT), Textus Receptus (NT), The Bishop's Bible (1568), and the Geneva Bible (1560) plus;
(all of the following books of course were preceded by the original and ancient manuscripts, and ancient copies made of those. )
1. Latin Vulgate - early 5th century 2. Wycliffe Bible - 1384 3. Tyndale Bible- New Testament 1526, entire Bible 1568 4. Coverdale Bible - 1535 5. Matthews Bible - 1537 6. the "Great Bible" - 1539 7. Geneva Bible - 1599 8. Bishops Bible - 1568 9.the Gutenberg Bible - 1455 Additionally, the Douay Old Testament and the Rheims New Testament were combined to produce: 10. the First Complete English Catholic Bible - 1609.

From what I have read in various places, everything had to agree with most all the text or it was either not written or further researched. Sounds like a pretty good way to ensure the complete and correct word is maintained.

Your a scientist, HOW would you rewrite a book with Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek books and scrolls for translation, ensuring that the words and phrases where as correct as the original manuscripts? (all without a computer) Yes, there have be some changes, all of which where in the translation of the Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek languages. Sometimes, a foreign word means two or three things in English

One other note: The dead sea scrolls were discovered between 1947 and 1956 in the Qumran caves near Jericho. Their text was written in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and Nabataean. They have been dated from 408 BCE to 318 CE. Their text AGREE with the King James Versions of the New Testament. So,much for Jesus's anonymity.

1. These dead sea scrolls (900+ text) are from different countries and languages yet they all agree... Whats the ODDs of that happening over a couple of thousand years or so?

David R.: commissioned by a political leader to support HIS church in particular.

England had converted to Protestantism about a century before and wanted to convert the bible from Latin to English.


Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

Bladerunner: "By careful research, I have come to the conclusion that there were many attempts at creating man.

You might have researched carefully but your results are not accurate. Did you carefully avoid anything that contradicted what you set out to prove?

Why do you say that. Where did all those versions of man come from. I could take the first version ok... made out of primordial ooze but (9) versions over what 4.0 million years, all suddenly appearing at different time dates and simply disappearing. That is except for the last one which showed up about 10-12,000 years ago. Guess we had been waiting in the ooze long enough! lol. We are still going.

Bladerunner: "As for man's puny science, it has not ruled God out nor have they ruled Him in. I speak of our science as (puny) in that I am comparing it to the science God had to have to create all things"

Galaxxiom: I am getting tired of your put downs about science. Science explains reality without having to resort to supernatural concoctions. A god is not needed to get where we are.The God hypotheses explains nothing.

[/QUOTE]

Somehow I knew you were going to take exception to what I said here even though I qualified it. Our science is not puny to you or ME but it would be beside God!

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

Is Christianity a monotheistic religion or is it polytheistic?
I ask because if the Old Man (God - the creator) is God, and His son is also God, and the Holy Ghost is roaming around there too, I'm counting three.
Then the Catholics also worship Mary, the Mother of God, and it's gettin' kind of crowded up there on the heavenly alter.

You have never heard me proclaim Jesus Christ as God. He is the Son of God!. God, his father proclaimed that the only way to heaven for man would be through his son, Jesus Christ.

Jesus's mother Mary is worshiped much like a saint of the Catholic church. Of course, she was human, so was Jesus.

From what I can read in the Bible, God has an army of angels up there. I do not think he gets lonely. Plus He made the Universe. That means that all those other sentient beings out there, he is responsible for!

As for the 'Holy Ghosts', the 'Holy Spirit' I do know that Christianity uses 'Holy' as a way to separate God from the covenant of Christianity? Latin meaning to separate.

The Jewish people have it right BUT they have a different angle of seeing things. Since they are God's chosen people and he has taken care of them all these centuries, well let's just say, they still have to go through Jesus Christ to get to heaven but then they still are on a one to one basis with his father. Of course that is my opinion and not fact.

Judaism was started by what most will tell you Abraham. He was the first to believe in a single god. Christianity of course began in Jerusalem during the time of Christ. Islam started in 600AD and was started by Mohammed. Ala is very lonely there since as a Muslim you have to be exactly like Mohammed to ever get to heaven and see God. That is the reason for the terrorist. Mohammed was not a good guy. Another Day Maybe?

Have a nice day:>)

Bladerunner


Have a nice day:>)

Bladerunner

 

[Galaxiom]

But your right he could settle this and his son Jesus will at Armageddon!

The relish with which believers eagerly await Armageddon is a good reason to work hard at discouraging the young from taking up this horrible death cult.

The believers see Armageddon as the ultimate fulfillment of their faith. It is common to all the Abrahmic faiths with the small difference being that the selection criteria for those chosen to live is slightly different. They will all tell you they are the only ones who are right.

We have every reason to be nervous about those who seek the destruction of life as we know it. They certainly should never be allowed to hold positions where they control public policy because they seek the opportunity to play a part in fulfillment of that prophecy.

 

[Galaxiom]

You have never heard me proclaim Jesus Christ as God. He is the Son of God!. God, his father proclaimed that the only way to heaven for man would be through his son, Jesus Christ

The only way to His heaven perhaps.

I wouldn't want to be in the same place as Abraham or his God anyway. Abraham was a schizophrenic sociopath obsessed by killing and death. The Old Testament reveals God to be a hideous, misanthropist, monster.

I'll choose somewhere more convivial for my eternal future.

 

[Mihail]

@believers
You always say that the Bible should not be understand by reading mot-a-mot.
You said that the Bible is a parable. OK. I take notes.

On the other hand you always say that Jesus is the son of God because Jesus itself address to God with the word "father". So, this time, are no dubs: the Bible should be interpreted as it was write. (?!?!?)

In Romanian language we address to a priest with the word "parinte" (= parent in English).
Is that priest one of my parents ??????
As far as I know, in English, you address to a priest with the exactly word "father".
Is that priest yours father ?

What about if Jesus has used the word "father" not in the very real sense (as His natural father).
What about if Jesus think that the God is just the "father" of all things (of course, including Him, but including as well His mother, Mary, including me and my dog) ?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Galaxiom...

Earlier in this thread, you said

The machine you are typing on now is a monument to the scientific understanding of these laws. The world is now full of Quantum devices that never would have been imaginable in classical mechanics. Exotic materials have been found by manipulating substances into the shapes predicted by the theory.

For quite some time, I've been convinced that computers are magical (in the sense of supernatural) devices. Why? Because of a little-appreciated fact. The circuits of a computer, regardless of being found on a chip, are merely miniaturizations of traditional components such as resistors, capacitors, inductors, and transistors. These circuit elements, when first created an analyzed, worked with currents measured in amps or milliamps or sometimes microamps. Given the number of electrons in a coulomb, which is part of the definition of an ampere, we are dealing with circuit theory based on statistical behavior of literally trillions of electrons. Statistics LOVES large numbers, so it became possible to use statistical analysis to talk about circuit properties and to derive the equations for the behavior of each component.

However, modern circuits that STILL use the resistor, capacitor, inductor, transistor design technology - but operate on picoamps and lower. I've seen articles that claim that some ULSI chip-based circuits can switch states based as few as 50 electrons.

That's too small to operate correctly with respect to the law of large numbers that is the basis for statistical treatments of circuit elements. In essence, computers must be magic because they operation on statistically insignificant amounts of current.



Yeah, I know it's off topic, but your comment caught my eye and I had to toss in my 2 cents worth on this issue.

 

[Galaxiom]

That's too small to operate correctly with respect to the law of large numbers that is the basis for statistical treatments of circuit elements. In essence, computers must be magic because they operation on statistically insignificant amounts of current.

An interesting perspective but the number of electrons, as few as they are, would still need to be statistically significant in the context of the information being handled. Otherwise they really could not work.

What really does my head in is quantum computing where the qbits are simultaneously both true and false allowing all the possible outcomes to be calculated at the same time. Now that really is magic.

 

[Galaxiom]

Our science is not puny to you or ME but it would be beside God!

Of course this must be qualified because you are assuming there is a god. As I have already pointed out, no supernatural influence has been found to be necessary for any of what we have in reality.

Science models the development of the Universe in incredible detail. The current frontier is quibbling over tiny discrepancies between the observed amounts of each element in the Universe and the amounts calculated by the models.

If your God does have advanced science he certainly doesn't show it. All we have is empty promises of how great it will all be later.

Man's science has tangible outcomes that we can see right now.

 

[nanscombe]

Even if people believe that there is some all powerful being out there that created everything thousands, or even millions, of years ago why should it necessarily follow that they should be worshiped and / or obeyed as a god?

People are supposed to have free will and a conscience of their own without the need for outside influence.

 

[Galaxiom]

Where did all those versions of man come from. I could take the first version ok... made out of primordial ooze but (9) versions over what 4.0 million years, all suddenly appearing at different time dates and simply disappearing.[/quote]

The history of humans goes back so much further. Genetic evidence suggests a split between human ancestors and chimp ancestors about seven million years ago followed by interbreeding between them again at about five million years ago.

The any versions of hominins came from diversification of the common ancestors usually driven by geographical separation. The repeated migrations from Africa provided exactly the kind of geographical separation and environmental change required.

Remember, Neanderthalis and Sapiens did not separate in Europe. Their ancestors left Africa in separate migrations a long time apart. There were probably many more migrations than those so far located in the fossil record.

We recently found the Denisovans in China. They have been revealed as contributing part of the genome of modern humans. More will be found.

Recent evidence also suggests that Europeans diverged from those who migrated into the Americas somewhere in central Asia. It expalins why genes shared by Europeans and Americans did not have to be the result of Europeans crossing the Atlantic.

That is except for the last one which showed up about 10-12,000 years ago. Guess we had been waiting in the ooze long enough! lol. We are still going.r

Most paleoanthropologists place the beginning of modern humans much earlier. Either way it is such a short time. Many of our ancestral species, rather than being gone in the blink of an eye like us, were around for many hundreds of thousands of years.

 

[Bladerunner]

@believers
You always say that the Bible should not be understand by reading mot-a-mot.
You said that the Bible is a parable. OK. I take notes.

There are all kind of stories in the old testament from Abraham and his son, How Israel lead themselves into bondage, etc. The New Testament is not so much mainly because of the time period of only 2000 years or so.

On the other hand you always say that Jesus is the son of God because Jesus itself address to God with the word "father". So, this time, are no dubs: the Bible should be interpreted as it was write. (?!?!?). As far as I know, in English, you address to a priest with the exactly word "father".
Is that priest yours father ?

That is only used in Catholic Church that I know of. WE protestants address our pastors, ministers, preachers, etc. by their name. They are a friend to the family and help comfort them when hard time fall. No, he is not my Father!

What about if Jesus has used the word "father" not in the very real sense (as His natural father).

In this case, God is both, his real father and his father in heaven.


Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

The relish with which believers eagerly await Armageddon is a good reason to work hard at discouraging the young from taking up this horrible death cult.

Death Cult - NO The bible speaks of a a final conflict between good and evil. The other definition is "A decisive or catastrophic conflict". WWIII? maybe... it looks like we are headed that way. In this final conflict whenever it happens
everyone will be forced to chose sides. Choose carefully my friend!

The believers see Armageddon as the ultimate fulfillment of their faith. It is common to all the Abrahmic faiths with the small difference being that the selection criteria for those chosen to live is slightly different. They will all tell you they are the only ones who are right.

The believers that Armageddon will happen look forward to that one-thousand years of peace that will take place after the world is rid of evil. Look what science could do in a thousand years of peace. If you are right then there is no final conflict, evil stays amongst us forever.

We have every reason to be nervous about those who seek the destruction of life as we know it. They certainly should never be allowed to hold positions where they control public policy because they seek the opportunity to play a part in fulfillment of that prophecy.

Did you not read a previous post that it is people that believe any-thing goes, there is no God thus morality is out the window. They these liberals pacifist isolationist bring on Armageddon as surely as they get up in the morning. To forget the past is to repeat it.


have a nice day:>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

The only way to His heaven perhaps.

I wouldn't want to be in the same place as Abraham or his God anyway. Abraham was a schizophrenic sociopath obsessed by killing and death. The Old Testament reveals God to be a hideous, misanthropist, monster.

I'll choose somewhere more convivial for my eternal future.

Then it is sad day my friend that we might not meet in this lifetime but it is even a sadder day that we will never meet in the hear-after.

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[nanscombe]

The day I decided that I did not actually believe that the Bible was the word of God was the day I decided I was probably not a Christian.

Since I did not believe the Bible why would I believe any of the holy texts hence I declared myself an atheist.

If one rejects the Bible does one's sense of morality go with it? Even if you don't believe the words doesn't mean that the sentiment behind it isn't reasonable.

Has my outlook on life changed, I certainly don't look upon things like taking the life of another human as always being wrong.

It doesn't mean I'm going to go out and kill someone just because I want something they've got or they simply annoy me.

 

[Mihail]

Then it is sad day my friend that we might not meet in this lifetime but it is even a sadder day that we will never meet in the hear-after.
Bladerunner

May I ask why you think that Galaxiom will leave forever but you have not this chance ?

 

[Brianwarnock]

Why only a thousand years of peace and not an eternity?

Brian