Learn How to Fish

[Uncle Gizmo]

Recently I was reminded of this saying:- “give a man a fish you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.”

The problem is, some people just want the fish! Not only is it a bad thing to do, giving a person a fish, it also encourages them to come back for more! Eventually all of those fish in the bottom of your boat are going to be given away.

Please don't give anyone a fish, they just keep coming back for more and more and more, with no intention of learning how to fish, why should they? You are fishing for them!

 

[NauticalGent]

Ah Tony,

You touch upon a very important issue for me. While growing up I have heard over and over from parents, including mine, how they try to "give me everything their parents couldn't give them".

And although I am fairly certain I didn't say that to my daughters, I certainly lived it. We do it out of love and we assure ourselves it is the right thing to do...and then we shake our heads and lament over how they cannot provide for themselves, use us as ATM's, have an alarming lack of accountability and INSANE sense of entitlement.

There is a moral hazard for providing without instilling an environment for earning it. I'll be the first to say that there comes a time when they need to understand they need to stand on their own, but why would they do it on their own if we are providing it to them? It is that transition that is the most difficult and sometimes the best thing we can do for them is to deny them.

 

[NauticalGent]

...and....

I am repeating the cycle with my granddaughter! I spoil her ROTTEN and I take comfort in the knowledge that it is my daughter and that half-wit she married who will bear that burden!

 

[kevlray]

We are raising two of our grandchildren (long story). Anyhow, hopefully we can teach them enough life skills to excel in this world.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I was lucky in that my parents provided me the means of making money as a musician. Mom also made money as a music teacher for a music store and she LOVED working with kids.

The transition for me, though, was a nasty one. When Dad died, I was forced to become my mother's caregiver at home until I finally got a doctor to tell me what was actually going on - and that was the first time I learned about Alzheimer's Disease. Back then, that name wasn't commonly used because nobody had yet done many studies that detected the amyloid plaque that is though to be the culprit. I had to learn responsibility FAST. It wasn't easy to suddenly be responsible for the life and well-being of another person. "Ton of bricks" doesn't adequately describe the impact of that transition.

We have tried to be sensible about our grandkids, but there were times when we really did spoil them a bit too much. Fortunately, we have mostly learned to back away and let the parents do their job. To be honest, the grandkids have turned into excellent young men despite the "spoiler" clauses in the grandparent's contract.

Love and respect are still viable things to offer to them now. Praise and support for their actions and decisions is as good a thing as we can still give them. And if THAT kind of spoiling is bad for them, then I don't want to be good.

 

[NauticalGent]

And if THAT kind of spoiling is bad for them, then I don't want to be good.

Agreed. I am talking about toys, candy between meals, electronic babysitting (my personal peeve) and basically the default "yes" to whatever they request in the form of a demand!

 

[Isaac]

Sometimes it's very hard to predict how kids will turn out, and hard to understand what led to it. My kids pretty much adopted my moral values, which is a good feeling of course, but the work & service ethic came out a bit different ... It's just really hard for me to understand sometimes.

Hard times teach hard work, I guess, and easy times ... well, they do the opposite for some people, while others still learn how to work hard regardless. It's very puzzling to me, and more a bit disappointing sometimes but I try to remind myself of all the (many) ways that things did turn out well rather than focus on the areas that disappoint me. Some days that's easier than others.

Right now I am just royally pi**ed off at the stupidity of my own investing psychology defects. I saw Dogecoin shooting up over night. For a while I resisted the urge. "Don't BUY when it's going UP, you dodo!" (I told myself). But after a while my idiocy got the best of me. When it was at .60 I experienced this thought/urge "OMG - maybe it's going to go up to a dollar and I'm losing out here", so I bought. Of course, the instant that I pressed 'buy', it started going down, and may never hit .60 again. I knew I shouldn't have done it, but did it anyway. I'm a dumb investor and it's smarting right now!

Not only that, but one of my Access databases which connects to Sharepoint Online doesn't play well with people inside Citrix, and I can't seem to get around it, so I might have to announce that all the sweet Microsoft Flow functionality, enabling automated notifications, gets the kibosh if you're a Citrix user. Plus I lost sleep watching cryptos explode and working myself up into the frenzy that ultimately led me to the dumbest decision of the month.

It's just a bad day so far!

 

[Isaac]

@Uncle Gizmo
I'm sorry I hijacked your thread to unload my morning's frustration, I shouldn't have.

Back to the focus - you're right about the fish, and by the way, that's a great picture of a man who has been taught to fish and happy doing it!

 

[NauticalGent]

the stupidity of my own investing psychology defects.

I have liquidated all my stock because I simply have NO faith in the worlds economy. Foolish decision? Time will tell...

 

[Isaac]

I have liquidated all my stock because I simply have NO faith in the worlds economy. Foolish decision? Time will tell...

Well, hey - taking your profit at a safe time (i.e., at such time when it still exists!) - is always respectable.
Hard decisions.

 

[conception_native_0123]

I have liquidated all my stock because I simply have NO faith in the worlds economy. Foolish decision? Time will tell...

that because corporate innovation is not innovation anymore. i once talk to someone at wal mart that said to me

i dont buy anything anymore because nothing is exciting anymore.

and yes, that true always. what is so exciting about corporate code written thhat does not produce anything but efficiency? that not exciting. that just feeds the world's fears. thats why it is being sold. so what?

 

[moke123]

Recently I was reminded of this saying:- “give a man a fish you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.”

The problem is, some people just want the fish! Not only is it a bad thing to do, giving a person a fish, it also encourages them to come back for more! Eventually all of those fish in the bottom of your boat are going to be given away.

Please don't give anyone a fish, they just keep coming back for more and more and more, with no intention of learning how to fish, why should they? You are fishing for them!

WORLD MAP ACCORDING TO FISH

 

[The_Doc_Man]

As far as stock liquidation goes, I own several stocks because my mother bought AT&T stock during her working years (as an employee of AT&T). Due to typical corporate acquisitions, spin-offs, etc. I owned stock in at least eight or nine companies. After I retired, I took the strategy that if the company (a) did not pay dividends and (b) sent me the option to either buy more or sell what I had, I would take the sell-out option. So far, I have sold off a couple of stocks, but the two that still pay dividends are worth keeping, even if the yearly dividend isn't super high. And my tax software handles it correctly, so I'll keep it. The others? Every so often in the past (while I was still working) they sent out the "buy more/sell out" option letter. Four stocks are now on borrowed time.

@conception_native_0123 - why do you downplay corporate code that is efficient? Exciting isn't ALWAYS a requirement, you know. A farm tractor isn't usually exciting - particularly if it is showing its age - but if it is efficient, it makes sense to still use it. Your attitude betrays a certain evidence that you have been tainted by corporate advertising.... "Get the new, EXCITING, piece of code. Available at an outlet near you! Trade in that old pile of code and learn what real excitement means."

 

[conception_native_0123]

WORLD MAP ACCORDING TO FISH

the post say "if this has helped please press like button". so I did. fish live in water.

 

[conception_native_0123]

- why do you downplay corporate code that is efficient? Exciting isn't ALWAYS a requirement, you know. A farm tractor isn't usually exciting - particularly if it is showing its age - but if it is efficient, it makes sense to still use it. Your attitude betrays a certain evidence that you have been tainted by corporate advertising.... "Get the new, EXCITING, piece of code. Available at an outlet near you! Trade in that old pile of code and learn what real excitement means."

i do not downplay anything. corporations always SELL what SELLS. does not matter what it is. corporations use uninformed and bored people. if iPhone is needed because people in california bored to death, iPhone will be created. if people all across world are scared to death that world will run out of energy because there too many people on Earth, too many computers using electricly and too many buildings using power grids, efficient code frameworks will be sold. why? MAKE MONEY. of course. is that not the simple thing you ever heard? it very simple. corporations create ignorance, ignorance create more money making opportunities for corporations who create them.

- repeat process until people die and next generations of used people become adults

so, big question is...woiuld corporations be able to make any money if all uninformed people throughout the world did not pay attention to what corporations produce? what would happen then? no more money making? world blow up? world come to a stop? next world war? people kill themselves because they bored to death? people running corporations start something like a war as excuse to PRODUCE the next way to make money?

makes me wonder huh.

 

[Isaac]

A farm tractor isn't usually exciting - particularly if it is showing its age - but if it is efficient, it makes sense to still use it.

Nothing quite like jogging next to a tractor, slowly pulling a flatbed wagon, for $2/hr, "picking rocks" (as the farmer who hired me at age 10 called it). Jog along the wagon, fit as a fiddle, covering a space up to about 20-30 yards from its right side, picking up rocks and throwing them on the wagon, in preparation for plowing. The sky is blue, the breeze is steady, it's spring in the midwest circa 1984 and I haven't a care in the world ...

 

[The_Doc_Man]

i do not downplay anything. corporations always SELL what SELLS. does not matter what it is. corporations use uninformed and bored people. if iPhone is needed because people in california bored to death, iPhone will be created. if people all across world are scared to death that world will run out of energy because there too many people on Earth, too many computers using electricly and too many buildings using power grids, efficient code frameworks will be sold. why? MAKE MONEY. of course. is that not the simple thing you ever heard? it very simple. corporations create ignorance, ignorance create more money making opportunities for corporations who create them.

- repeat process until people die and next generations of used people become adults

so, big question is...woiuld corporations be able to make any money if all uninformed people throughout the world did not pay attention to what corporations produce? what would happen then? no more money making? world blow up? world come to a stop? next world war? people kill themselves because they bored to death? people running corporations start something like a war as excuse to PRODUCE the next way to make money?

makes me wonder huh.

What would happen is that corporate executives would fire their Marketing department and get someone who CAN provide excitement for whatever crud they are selling. In your vernacular, the executives would see to it that the uninformed people throughout the world DID pay attention, to MAKE them informed - at least about their products. Compare against religion, for example. Listen to how strident the preachers become when things happen that are contrary to THEIR way of doing business. They go crazy over things that cause people to no longer flock to the churches and offer up tithes because of the guilt trips offered in sermons, homilies, lessons, etc. They ramp up their marketing strategy. And that is exactly what corporate execs do - ramp up THEIR strategy.

I'm not ENTIRELY at odds with you on this because I know that corporations produce a LOT of trashy products. But when you espouse the downfall of corporations, you are talking about putting a lot of people out of business. People lose their jobs. You change your economy from one that was at least marginally self-supporting to one that is entirely a welfare society. Long-term, such societies are more vulnerable to collapse than self-supporting ones.

 

[Isaac]

Everyone has needs. Even if all the "uninformed people" woke up tomorrow morning, suddenly super-informed and disillusioned with all corporate-produced products, these people would still have needs. Eventually someone would start a business to sell products that meet those Needs. Probably some of those businesses would be publicly traded, as it's an effective way to continue to grow and raise capital. Oops, just created another corporation.

@conception_native_0123 I agree with you on one limited point: Corporations "help" consumers "understand" what they "want". So even though nobody is forcing anyone to buy an iPhone, you are correct that the company producing the iPhone does influence the very fact that John Doe wants to buy an iPhone in the first place...Of course.

But if John Doe woke up one day, suddenly smitten with the realization that his wants and needs were being manipulated and wanting to cut ties with all of it, it would still only be a matter of time before a different corporation (or perhaps even the same one! LOL)--found out what John Doe wanted and needed now, and served that need with a new product.

I like to think of myself as more detached (than average) from FADS about what is cool or necessary to have in life. I am sure a lot of people think that, with varying degrees of truth. I laugh at $1000 phones and use a $25 LG Risio, myself.

Then again, some of this is just due to people having different values--whether they are being manipulated or not. My parents scratch their heads at how much of my budget goes to taking trips. I scratch my head at their $400 purebred german shepherds and $10,000 piano. But each of us finds great value in what we spend our money on.

You are correct that, it is theoretically possible that modern society were to undergo some sort of waking-up transformation, becoming drastically more aware of marketing manipulation and somehow becoming drastically less swayed by marketing.

But I doubt that people will ever cease to have wants and needs (no matter how pure their origin were to become), and any successful business would just have to target those.

 

[conception_native_0123]

But when you espouse the downfall of corporations, you are talking about putting a lot of people out of business. People lose their jobs. You change your economy from one that was at least marginally self-supporting to one that is entirely a welfare society. Long-term, such societies are more vulnerable to collapse than self-supporting ones.

long term, ALL societies destroy themselves. would you agree with that? the romans, the USA, the europeans and EU, the russians / chinese and communism, etc, etc...

 

[conception_native_0123]

Compare against religion, for example. Listen to how strident the preachers become when things happen that are contrary to THEIR way of doing business. They go crazy over things that cause people to no longer flock to the churches and offer up tithes because of the guilt trips offered in sermons, homilies, lessons, etc. They ramp up their marketing strategy.

that is because they have no faith in God right? they are selling in a "sales" society. sales has nothing to do with faith in God. it never has.