T-Dawg

[GaP42]

So is the uproar / complaints about an indictment being issued or the "leak"? The leak is of no real consequence (as discussed there is little in it that is not generally expected/known) and from earlier discussions (eg #2), it was attributing some blame on the democrats or their sympathisers. This smacks more of how a conspiracy develops - entrenching division.

An example of how us/them thinking develops - is encouraged - when critical thinking is not followed

 

[ColinEssex]

I think we all know that most of the USA police/judiciary/ senators and Congress are corrupt.
Therefore, Trump will not be found guilty as he has unlimited funds to 'encourage' those that matter to be favourable. He employs 'fixers' to smooth whatever path he is on.
It's a bit like that paedo Jackson being found not guilty - which is not innocent, Trump will be the same, then he can pay his way to the White House. He will be the next president by one means or another.

Col

 

[GaP42]

I think we all know that most of the USA police/judiciary/ senators and Congress are corrupt.
Therefore, Trump will not be found guilty as he has unlimited funds to 'encourage' those that matter to be favourable. He employs 'fixers' to smooth whatever path he is on.
It's a bit like that paedo Jackson being found not guilty - which is not innocent, Trump will be the same, then he can pay his way to the White House. He will be the next president by one means or another.

Col

That's a broad smear Colin (against police and judiciary at least). and the "other side" sees it as much the same from their viewpoint. Why? perhaps we all easily fall into confirmation bias. This is just the first for Trump and probably not the most damning charge. Lets see what is put forward, listen, and see what happens. I suspect your use of the word corruption may be very broad.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I think we all know that most of the USA police/judiciary/ senators and Congress are corrupt.
Therefore, Trump will not be found guilty as he has unlimited funds to 'encourage' those that matter to be favourable. He employs 'fixers' to smooth whatever path he is on.
It's a bit like that paedo Jackson being found not guilty - which is not innocent, Trump will be the same, then he can pay his way to the White House. He will be the next president by one means or another.

Col

We have not seen the indictment yet (as of this posting) so don't know the details. I will say this much: The ONLY possible crime here would be that Trump used a legally restricted source of funds (for example, campaign funds) to pay for the "hush money." The fact that he paid some woman to be quiet about something, to include a non-disclosure agreement (NDA), is what we call a "nothing-burger." An NDA as a means of settling some dispute without resorting to a lawsuit is something that happens every day somewhere in the USA, probably several times a day. If no actual felony occurred (as the basis of the NDA), there IS NO CRIME. It's just a settlement out of court.

 

[Isaac]

Well it certainly is not the us vs them thinking that is so prevalent at the moment. There is no (little) conceding of points in the politics we see, of seeing the other point of view and working through issues. Preconceptions and confirmation bias dominates. I would like to see a more critical/skeptical approach in general. We build from data / facts to knowledge and wisdom. However, it is not possible to use an entirely fact-based position. We have imperfect knowledge. At some point your morals / ethics and views (built from life experiences) must provide a filter - but it would be good to recognise when - and be prepared to change. Where do you stand?

I only have 2 parties to work with in the US.
No such luxury

 

[AccessBlaster]

 

[Steve R.]

Joke from Gutfeld!, paraphrased: "Bragg, upon hearing of the successful indictment of Trump, released 7 felons in celebration."

Then there is the unbelievable faux pax by Nancy Pelosi that Trump must prove his innocence. So it is Pelosi's belief that Trump is automatically guilty. That is counter to the US judicial process and also reflect poorly on Pelosi understanding of US laws and this from the former Speaker of the US House of Representatives. By extension, that mistaken philosophy is being applied to all those being arrested under an assertion that they were somehow involved in the January 6th rally. Her remarks demonstrate that she does not deserve to be in Congress.

Pelosi ripped for tweet saying Trump can ‘prove innocence’ at trial

Rep. Nancy Pelosi was flagged on Twitter for a tweet saying that former President Donald Trump can “prove innocence” in a trial, suggesting that Mr. Trump is guilty until proved otherwise.

www.washingtontimes.com

 

[AccessBlaster]

This is Alvin Bragg's Michael Avenatti moment....

 

[AccessBlaster]

Hopefully, Trump holds a press conference directly after the clown show

 

[ColinEssex]

Maybe you ought to not comment on subjects of which you are ignorant.

You're absolutely right. I only quote what I read in the papers. I'll bet you $5 he will be president if he runs for office.

Let's charge Colin with a crime I'm sure he has broken some law. Maybe he went through a red light late at night when no one was around. That's CRIMINAL. We'll search all the traffic cams in his town, we'll find it. We'll get him. I KNOW Colin has committed a crime. He is just that kind of person. Let's go through his tax returns with a fine tooth comb. I'm CERTAIN that there is some deduction he took that he was not entitled to. We'll make up a lie and get a search warrant so we can toss his home and rifle through his wife's underwear. You just never know where you're going to find a "secret" document.

I love that. I'll confess, I have committed crimes, who hasn't? I can list them if you're interested.

I dont do tax returns, I'm not self employed. My tax is deducted at source then I get paid what's left after stoppages.

Col

 

[AccessBlaster]

They would love nothing more than Trump slinking away hiding from the press

 

[Steve R.]

 

[Isaac]

So is the uproar / complaints about an indictment being issued or the "leak"? The leak is of no real consequence (as discussed there is little in it that is not generally expected/known) and from earlier discussions (eg #2), it was attributing some blame on the democrats or their sympathisers. This smacks more of how a conspiracy develops - entrenching division.

An example of how us/them thinking develops - is encouraged - when critical thinking is not followed

Denial is not critical thinking.
Truth is more important than unity.
I don't think anyone has said that the leak is a huge deal or the biggest issue or anything like that.
Let it go

 

[Isaac]

You're absolutely right. I only quote what I read in the papers. I'll bet you $5 he will be president if he runs for office.

I love that. I'll confess, I have committed crimes, who hasn't? I can list them if you're interested.

I dont do tax returns, I'm not self employed. My tax is deducted at source then I get paid what's left after stoppages.

Col

I've committed crimes too. I think everyone has.
What % of your income do you pay in taxes or did you in past years generally speaking after everything is said and done?

 

[ColinEssex]

I've committed crimes too. I think everyone has.
What % of your income do you pay in taxes or did you in past years generally speaking after everything is said and done?

The UK basic tax rate is 20% on income up to £50,000 P/A. The first £12,500 is tax free (called Personal Allowance). So I pay basic tax rate, deducted at source. The tax rate rises the more you earn.
In the 1960's, The Beatles were paying 90% of their income in tax.
.
If you are self employed you need to show audited accounts of income and tax due and submit tax returns by 31st January every year, you are also audited by HM Inspector of Taxes to show you are not on the fiddle. As well as income tax, you need to pay VAT (value added tax) if your business earnings are above the VAT threshold. Income tax is calculated on profit, VAT is calculated on business turnover.
Col

 

[Steve R.]

As a quizzical aside. The Bidens maintain that the money they received from China was "seed money". That could be considered a euphemism for bribe. Of course that depends on whether or not, the Bidens have actually established a valid business, like a tee-shirt factory. So far, no valid use of that money has been disclosed, which means that the payments in the absence of other information constituted a bribe - an illegal action.

The charges against Trump have not yet been formally revealed. Based on media reporting: the claim by Bragg is that Trump mischaracterized the payment to Ms. Daniels as a legal expense. A misdemeanor, a best. If that type of word play is considered legitimate for defining a crime by the Democrats, then the Bidens have covered-up a crime through their euphemistic "seed money" language.

 

[Isaac]

As a quizzical aside. The Bidens maintain that the money they received from China was "seed money". That could be considered a euphemism for bribe. Of course that depends on whether or not, the Bidens have actually established a valid business, like a tee-shirt factory. So far, no valid use of that money has been disclosed, which means that the payments in the absence of other information constituted a bribe - an illegal action.

The charges against Trump have not yet been formally revealed. Based on media reporting: the claim by Bragg is that Trump mischaracterized the payment to Ms. Daniels as a legal expense. A misdemeanor, a best. If that type of word play is considered legitimate for defining a crime by the Democrats, then the Bidens have covered-up a crime through their euphemistic "seed money" language.

Bragg has started a very very dangerous precedent.

A dozen prosecutors all over the country have 20 times as much evidence of crimes of all kinds of politicians on both sides certainly including Biden and clinton, and could arrest them tomorrow based on it and pretty easily get an indictment.

If that is totally appropriate to do, as Democrats are asserting, then I worry what is next for the nation?

 

[AccessBlaster]

After this current Democrat fiasco blows up because of lack of standing. We move on to Georgia's election fraud fiasco where the grand jury foreman has given interviews revealing information about the secret proceedings. After that one blows up we will move on to the next, wash rinse, and repeat the democrat mantra.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I feel like Trump has already anticipated all the possible Stormy Daniels scenarios prior to her signing the ND form. People routinely violate these agreements and contingency plans are filed away for future breaches. That's what business people do, expect the unexpected. It's a chess game that he seems to beat them in.

 

[Isaac]

How what happened? Someone said there was a leak. I just want to see it.

The information that was leaked turned out to be accurate when the indictment was revealed on Tuesday. However, the issue lies in the fact that grand jury indictments are meant to be kept confidential according to the law. While it's common for news organizations to receive leaked information beforehand, the release of such information goes against the secrecy of grand jury proceedings. As stated in New York Criminal Procedure Law § 190.25, no one, including grand jurors, is allowed to reveal any details about the nature or content of grand jury proceedings, unless they are required to do so as part of their official duties or receive written court approval.