A Proof (1 Viewer)

[Pat Hartman]

Note that most of those crossing the border are not coming illegally.

Of course they are!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you call wading across the Rio Grande? When you cross the border legally, you present yourself at a port of entry with your passport in hand

I agree with Doc except that he makes sound like the vast majority of immatgrants are criminals.

Every single illegal alien is a criminal. They start their life in the US on the dole by breaking our immigration laws.

They are turning themselves over to the border patrol and applying for refugee status in accordance with US law.

International law says you apply from your home country or the first "safe" country. When you are applying for asylum, you don't get to pick the country with the best freebies, you apply in the FIRST SAFE country. How do you suppose the Venezuelans and the Chinese and the Iranians got to the Rio Grande? Did they walk? Did they fly? How did they get on an airplane to leave their home country without a passport? How many safe countries did they pass through before they crossed our border illegally? Just because your country is a s***hole as Venezuela has become due to socialism, doesn't mean that you qualify as a refugee.

As a retiree, you should be particularly in favor of increasing immigration

What is it about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION that makes you confuse it with LEGAL IMMIGRATION? We have a process. Follow it. We have the most generous immigration policy of any country in the entire world. We take in millions of temporary workers on way too many visa programs. We also take in permanent residents and naturalize over a million new citizens every year.

In about 2030, the Social Security trust fund runs out, leaving benefits financed at only 78%.

Because there isn't actually a trust fund. Congress has spent the SS fund on bridges to nowhere and studying the sex lives of frogs. Do you not understand that the bubble has been a KNOWN reality since the late fifties when the birth rate turned down again after the peak at the end of WWII when the soldiers came home and started families. Congress has PERMANENTLY FIXED SS at least three times in my memory. How does it keep breaking? We have actuaries who are pretty good at projecting these things and yet, every time the government collects more SS money "to put in the trust fund", they just spend it on garbage. If we can afford to finance the retirement plans of Ukrainians, we can afford to finance our own retirement plan. Just like if we can secure the Ukrainian border, we can secure our own damn border. We just need Congress to stop spending our tax dollars on crap and wars we shouldn't be funding. The bubble is about 15 years. We are almost 10 years into it. I was at the leading edge. The baby boom is actually coming to an end as we start to die off.

There are lots of ways to solve the SS "problem". Congress just isn't willing to do it.

Under current US law, there are only about 1.5 million slots available for legal immigrants,

You are talking about green cards. There are at least 4 million temporary work visas

Here's official stats up to 2022. It's only April, we can't expect 2023 to be tallied yet.

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2024-02/2023_0818_plcy_yearbook_immigration_statistics_fy2022.pdf

Here's a couple of key charts.
Asylum is a very specific situation. Probably less than 10% of the 9 million people who entered the country illegally since Joe, the human trafficker took office would qualify and that is being generous.

There are other classes of special work visas later in the chart. Download the pdf if you want to study it.

 

[jpl458]

The problem is the got aways. Which number in the millions.

Were is the proof?

 

[jpl458]

Of course they are!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you call wading across the Rio Grande? When you cross the border legally, you present yourself at a port of entry with your passport in hand

Every single illegal alien is a criminal. They start their life in the US on the dole by breaking our immigration laws.

International law says you apply from your home country or the first "safe" country. When you are applying for asylum, you don't get to pick the country with the best freebies, you apply in the FIRST SAFE country. How do you suppose the Venezuelans and the Chinese and the Iranians got to the Rio Grande? Did they walk? Did they fly? How did they get on an airplane to leave their home country without a passport? How many safe countries did they pass through before they crossed our border illegally? Just because your country is a s***hole as Venezuela has become due to socialism, doesn't mean that you qualify as a refugee.

What is it about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION that makes you confuse it with LEGAL IMMIGRATION? We have a process. Follow it. We have the most generous immigration policy of any country in the entire world. We take in millions of temporary workers on way too many visa programs. We also take in permanent residents and naturalize over a million new citizens every year.

Because there isn't actually a trust fund. Congress has spent the SS fund on bridges to nowhere and studying the sex lives of frogs. Do you not understand that the bubble has been a KNOWN reality since the late fifties when the birth rate turned down again after the peak at the end of WWII when the soldiers came home and started families. Congress has PERMANENTLY FIXED SS at least three times in my memory. How does it keep breaking? We have actuaries who are pretty good at projecting these things and yet, every time the government collects more SS money "to put in the trust fund", they just spend it on garbage. If we can afford to finance the retirement plans of Ukrainians, we can afford to finance our own retirement plan. Just like if we can secure the Ukrainian border, we can secure our own damn border. We just need Congress to stop spending our tax dollars on crap and wars we shouldn't be funding. The bubble is about 15 years. We are almost 10 years into it. I was at the leading edge. The baby boom is actually coming to an end as we start to die off.

There are lots of ways to solve the SS "problem". Congress just isn't willing to do it.

You are talking about green cards. There are at least 4 million temporary work visas

Here's official stats up to 2022. It's only April, we can't expect 2023 to be tallied yet.

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2024-02/2023_0818_plcy_yearbook_immigration_statistics_fy2022.pdf

Here's a couple of key charts.
Asylum is a very specific situation. Probably less than 10% of the 9 million people who entered the country illegally since Joe, the human trafficker took office would qualify and that is being generous.
View attachment 113579
There are other classes of special work visas later in the chart. Download the pdf if you want to study it.
View attachment 113580

What are the "lots of ways" to fix social security?

 

[AccessBlaster]

Were is the proof?

Under President Biden and Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) sources have confirmed over 1.7 million known gotaways at the Southwest border. Even worse, in a March 2023 field hearing, then-U.S. Border Patrol Chief Raul Ortiz testified that the number of total gotaways could be as much as 20 percent higher than the publicly reported numbers.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Eclipse day at the border

 

[Pat Hartman]

What are the "lots of ways" to fix social security?

1. Reinstate the trust fund so the funds only get spent on SS.
2. Remove the cap on earnings.
3. Negotiate drug prices so that we aren't paying more than France or the UK or Australia or Germany.

Why the US has higher drug prices than other countries

The Trump administration’s proposal to lower drug prices focuses on discounts. A health policy scholar argues that the US could learn from Europe’s system of measuring drug value and effectiveness.

theconversation.com

Infographic: U.S. Drug Prices Sky-High in International Comparison

Percentage by which the prices of U.S. prescription drugs surpass those in other selected countries.

www.statista.com

Yes, the US pays more for prescriptions than other nations

It’s well documented that Americans pay high prices for health care. But do they pay double or more for prescriptions co

www.politifact.com

 

[Steve R.]

What are the "lots of ways" to fix social security?

How about you suggesting a solution that also resolves deficit spending which must also include reducing the National debt.

 

[Steve R.]

Note that most of those crossing the border are not coming illegally. They are turning themselves over to the border patrol and applying for refugee status in accordance with US law.

That is a non-nonsensical statement. They are entering illegally under false pretenses that has been facilitated by the fact that the Biden administration is not enforcing immigration laws. Technically, the Biden administration should be placing every illegal immigrant into a facility and holding them there until their immigration status is resolved. Instead, Biden is releasing them into the country where they will essentially disappear. Moreover, Biden has essentially refused to deport illegal immigrants. Biden, in cooperation with the Mexican cartels, is in the business of human trafficking and child abuse.

Consider this: When it comes to student loans, Biden presents a macho chest thumping public image giving the finger to the US Supreme Court stating how he is taking decisive unilateral action (what happened to the separation of powers?). When it come to immigration, Biden plays the wimp and whines that he is unable to do anything because Congress refuses to act. Additionally, Trump was able to manage illegal immigration through executive actions that Biden rescinded. Biden is a lying hypocrite. The illegal immigration issue is a planned invasion by the Democrats to create an impoverished underclass dependent on federal government welfare..

The largest group is coming from Venezuela, where a "Socialist" government destroyed the economy and persecuted political opponents.

You do realize that Biden is implementing a socialist government and is actively persecuting political opponents. In term of realpolitiks, enabling "refugees" to enter this country weakens this country as resources are devoted to supporting them (health, food, education, lodging, etc.) instead of citizens. Also consider that many of these supposed "refugees" may not really be pro-US, may not wish to assimilate, and may bring their culture of corruption into this country.

Michigan: Anti-Israel Protesters Chant 'Death to America' on International Al-Quds Day

Anti-Israel protesters in Dearborn, Michigan, closed out Ramadan by chanting, "Death to America" and "Death to Israel."

www.breitbart.com

Chinese migrants are the fastest growing group crossing from Mexico into U.S. at southern border

A growing number of Chinese nationals, trying to escape repressive politics and a bleak economy, are headed to the U.S. They're turning to a gap at the southern border with Mexico as a way to get in.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[RogerCooper]

Every single illegal alien is a criminal. They start their life in the US on the dole by breaking our immigration laws.

...

What is it about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION that makes you confuse it with LEGAL IMMIGRATION? We have a process. Follow it. We have the most generous immigration policy of any country in the entire world. We take in millions of temporary workers on way too many visa programs. We also take in permanent residents and naturalize over a million new citizens every year.

Because there isn't actually a trust fund. Congress has spent the SS fund on bridges to nowhere and studying the sex lives of frogs. Do you not understand that the bubble has been a KNOWN reality since the late fifties when the birth rate turned down again after the peak at the end of WWII when the soldiers came home and started families. Congress has PERMANENTLY FIXED SS at least three times in my memory. How does it keep breaking? We have actuaries who are pretty good at projecting these things and yet, every time the government collects more SS money "to put in the trust fund", they just spend it on garbage. If we can afford to finance the retirement plans of Ukrainians, we can afford to finance our own retirement plan. Just like if we can secure the Ukrainian border, we can secure our own damn border. We just need Congress to stop spending our tax dollars on crap and wars we shouldn't be funding. The bubble is about 15 years. We are almost 10 years into it. I was at the leading edge. The baby boom is actually coming to an end as we start to die off.

Current US law does not require refugees to have a visa or to have come directly to the US to apply.

The difference between illegal and legal immigration is simply a matter of government policy which can be changed. The US has a large demand for labor and that attracts immigrants. The US takes in fewer immigrants (relative to its population) than Canada or Australia. Government restrictions have created black market for labor. It is hard to fence out the free market.

The reason that Social Security money is running out is that people are living longer, combined with lower than expected birth rates. You seem to be suggesting that the government should spend income tax money, collected for different purposes on Social Security. That is simply a disguised tax increase.

 

[AccessBlaster]

The reason that Social Security money is running out is that people are living longer, combined with lower than expected birth rates. You seem to be suggesting that the government should spend income tax money, collected for different purposes on Social Security. That is simply a disguised tax increase.

Won't the Democrats just print more money? Problem solved.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Current US law does not require refugees to have a visa or to have come directly to the US to apply.

That is what I said. You apply BEFORE you cross the border ILLEGALLY. And 95% will be rejected because they don't qualify. The way Biden is operating is let them in and give them a note to show up in 4 years for a hearing. So, what then? They KNOW their asylum claim will be rejected and they will be deported. Are they going to show up? Only the ones who actually think their claim will be accepted. The rest are in the wind sucking off the teat of our welfare state and working under the table so they contribute NOTHING to SS and FICA.

The difference between illegal and legal immigration is simply a matter of government policy which can be changed.

Exactly which laws do you suggest we ignore. My personal favorite is the one that requires me to send the government way too much of my hard earned money and which they waste on studies of the sex lives of tree frogs. If you believe the immigration laws should be changed, lobby your members of Congress.

This is America. We do NOT just arbitrarily ignore laws we don't like. That is how banana republics operate. Laws are for thee, not for me. COVID really highlighted the hypocrisy of the left. They pick and choose who to prosecute. In NY, the prosecutor ran on the platform of "GET TRUMP", not I will make your state safer but I WILL spend all my time and energy looking for a crime, any crime that i can even remotely pin on the evil orange man. The Biden administration has elected to persecute Trump and Trump supporters so the DOJ and FBI have no time to go after actual criminals. Notice that is where we are right now. You can steal from any store in certain cities provided the goods you steal during a single event don't exceed a value of x dollars. WHO do you think pays for that. The goods aren't "free". SOMEONE is paying. And as a taxpayer and consumer that happens to be me. I'm pretty sure that the brick and mortar stores in NYC and San Francisco and other blue cities have gotten substantial raises in their insurance policy costs due the the catastrophic rise in claims caused by this absolutely stupid policy. Should the store be forced to pay this increase? No, it isn't something that they did so they pass it on to us the customers. So every time you go into a store in a city where "petty" crime goes unpunished, think about how much extra you pay so that others can steal. That is a Democrat policy. So, keep voting for them.

The reason that Social Security money is running out is that people are living longer,

That was always built into the calculation.

You seem to be suggesting that the government should spend income tax money, collected for different purposes on Social Security. That is simply a disguised tax increase.

Yes I am. WHY? Because we are paying to fund the retirement of Ukrainians. Why can't we do the same for our own citizens? Why are Ukrainians more important than our own citizens? But I did also offer suggestions on how to fix/minimize the problem along with links of other suggestions. Congress fails us badly because it pays no attention to fraud and doesn't understand how to run a business. Way too many of them have never had to earn a living let alone run a business and meet a payroll so they have no concept of costs or cost control. They never add ways to measure results. Did this new, expensive program produce the projected results? what results? were we supposed to project results expected and then measure them? Who ever heard of such a thing? From their perspective money isn't real. It is just numbers on a page. For me, living on a fixed income, the extraordinary rate of inflation is eating into my nest egg at an alarming rate. Giving me a 3% increase in SS doesn't come close to covering the 25% + increase in the cost of basic goods during the Biden administration. Eventually reducing the rate of inflation doesn't change that. No one is going to lower the price of anything.

If the Congress hadn't robbed the piggy bank of the SS "trust fund", there would be money there to cover the gap until the population working and retired are better aligned. We have "fixed" this problem at least three times in the past 40 years but Congress keeps stealing the money and spending it on things like funding the retirement accounts of Ukranians and paying to house illegal aliens in 3 star hotels in major cities, not to mention feeding them, clothing them, giving them walking around money, covering their medical expenses, and educating their children who don't speak English and who have never been vaccinated and so are reintroducing childhood diseases which we haven't seen in a generation.

 

[RogerCooper]

Your support for a tax increase for Social Security is interesting. By saying general revenue should be used to pay for Social Security you are changing Social Security from a mandatory pension program to a welfare program for old people with a far greater degree of income redistribution.

Your proposed savings are tiny compared to the deficit in Social Security and Medicare. You should check the NYT budget calculator https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/03/06/upshot/balancing-budget-painful-spending-cuts.html and work it out yourself. As a businessman, you should appreciate working with actual numbers.

 

[Steve R.]

The difference between illegal and legal immigration is simply a matter of government policy which can be changed.

A simplistic response that does not address a variety of factors. One of the biggest is the separation of powers between the three branches of government. Next the president is supposed to implement the laws passed by Congress, the president does not have the authority to wave a magic wand to simply change policy. Biden for example is required to detain all illegal migrants and he refuses to do so. Biden unfortunately believes that he does have that magical authority to change policy without consulting the other branches of government. Recall Obama's infamous claim that if Congress does not take action that he (Obama) could simply use a pen and/or phone to take action. That is executive overreach.

'I've Got a Pen and I've Got a Phone': Obama's Executive Overreach Becomes Trump's Executive Overreach

The dangers of unchecked executive power.

reason.com

In December 2007 presidential candidate Barack Obama told The Boston Globe that if he won the 2008 election, he would enter the White House committed to rolling back the sort of overreaching executive power that had characterized the presidency of George W. Bush. "The President is not above the law," Obama insisted.

Once elected, however, President Obama began to sing a different sort of tune. "We're not just going to be waiting for legislation," Obama announced. "I've got a pen and I've got a phone…and I can use that pen to sign executive orders and take executive actions and administrative actions."

Biden, is following in Obama's footsteps acting as a wannabe dictator who believes he has unlimited executive power.

 

[jpl458]

1. Reinstate the trust fund so the funds only get spent on SS.
2. Remove the cap on earnings.
3. Negotiate drug prices so that we aren't paying more than France or the UK or Australia or Germany.

Why the US has higher drug prices than other countries

The Trump administration’s proposal to lower drug prices focuses on discounts. A health policy scholar argues that the US could learn from Europe’s system of measuring drug value and effectiveness.

theconversation.com

Infographic: U.S. Drug Prices Sky-High in International Comparison

Percentage by which the prices of U.S. prescription drugs surpass those in other selected countries.

www.statista.com

Yes, the US pays more for prescriptions than other nations

It’s well documented that Americans pay high prices for health care. But do they pay double or more for prescriptions co

www.politifact.com

When was SSC a trust fund? Would #2 mean the more you male the more you pay? No 3 seems like it in progress with more needed to be done e.g. insulin.

 

[Steve R.]

When was SSC a trust fund?

Shouldn't you be doing some research?

 

[jpl458]

Shouldn't you be doing some research?

It appears that the trust still exists.

 

[Steve R.]

It appears that the trust still exists.

"Appears" does not demonstrate that you researched the issue you raised.

 

[jpl458]

I didn't raise any issue. I asked a question. I wasn't making a point. What I found says there is still a trust for SSC. Pat said that SSC should be put back into a trust. No argument here.5

 

[Steve R.]

What I found says there is still a trust for SSC.

So why didn't you show what you found so that we could see the evidence?

 

[Isaac]

Must be tough being the party of victims. Change the channel.

Actually it's great. It's galvanized a majority of Americans to vote against Biden in a few months