Shooting of little Rhys Jones!! (1 Viewer)

Brianwarnock

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That the state will pay for a 16 yearold, white lighning drinking, frozen pizza eating, tricia watching, no qualifcations school leaver - to have as many childen by as many fathers as she wants can only help dumb down the population!

All benefits should be given as part of getting off your arse for 35 hours a week - the same as everyone else has too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Many years ago I read an interesting and thought provoking article on how the welfare state leads to the decline in the quality of a nation based broadly on the issue that it is only the feckless who have large families now and that the welfare state ensures that the live, unlike the old days.

Brian
 

BarryMK

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Look, the kid got shot and died. Get over it. It happens.

Why the fuss over one kid? Because it's in the UK? How about the millions dying daily of starvation, the ones that have no hope when they're born.
Col

Col, I presume you speak from the viewpoint of one who has not lost a child, from what I know of you I can't believe you really mean this. To lose a child, as I did, to an accident is grevous enough believe me, but to have him shot down just because some shiftless piece of filth simply felt like it must be beyond belief for the parents.

Is the English boy's life really any less valuable because he was born into a society where he didn't have to starve?
 

GaryPanic

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That the state will pay for a 16 yearold, white lighning drinking, frozen pizza eating, tricia watching, no qualifcations school leaver - to have as many childen by as many fathers as she wants can only help dumb down the population!

All benefits should be given as part of getting off your arse for 35 hours a week - the same as everyone else has too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Although I agree with the core of this post..
there must be provision for exceptions

like
Single Parents due to death of a parent (coming in here from an military angle) so war widows , same would apply for parents of police/fire brigade, ambalance service whos primary income earner is killed on duty .

those who are less abled

now we have to think about the carers ,,,
what about thos who look after their elderly relations - this is becoming an unpaid job and they end up having to live of benefits...

- but as to the gist of the post , those that can work, should be made to work ..

if I rmember correctly in Germany (going back nearly 20 years)
to be able to benefit from the state system you had to be employed for x amount of time and shoul you be unemployed for a short period a percentage of your first pay packet had to go back into the system

now this might not be everyones cup of tea, but you didn't get a bean unless you had contributed into the system, for those leaving school they had to either get a job ., national service or public service - such as clearing rubbish, tiding gardens up etc to get a 1/4 of the benefits , and then this only last so long before they had to do it again

g
 

scott-atkinson

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Col, I presume you speak from the viewpoint of one who has not lost a child, from what I know of you I can't believe you really mean this. To lose a child, as I did, to an accident is grevous enough believe me, but to have him shot down just because some shiftless piece of filth simply felt like it must be beyond belief for the parents.

Is the English boy's life really any less valuable because he was born into a society where he didn't have to starve?

Well put.

In most cases we can only imagine the grief that this family are going through, but in your case you understand this grief.

From my perspective of having two young children, if I was to lose either of them my world would fall apart.

This is not to say that I do not grieve for the millions of children that i know are starving to death or killed in conflicts, I do grieve. No child or parent should have to endure this kind of pain or grief no matter what their status on this planet ...all life is precious.

It simply is that this case of Rhys Jones has been very high profile, has as the Madeleine Mccann case, and they warrent my grief more at the present due to their daily reported nature.
 

GaryPanic

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Barry ,
I am sure that this is not meant personally .
and ,I as most would and do feel for the parents of any child kill whether it be by accident or as in this case deliberate,

we really are talking about society where other peoples children have no value (meaning if its not your child then it doesn't mater) this group of people who think like this are the people that we would rather have removed from society,
the majority of people who value not only thier own children but others as well, are generally ignore by th epress and society as a whole with the exception of perhaps a week before children in need
those who continue caring after this (charity event) could be called angels for their works whether they be some hairy arse biker , to some sweet old lady
 

scott-atkinson

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The mere fact that this thread has recieved nearly as many views as my thread posted nearly two months ago proves the emotive nature of it's content.

People are generally grieving for this poor lad and his family.

Does this make us hypocrits... well if it means that I have a soul and can feel emotion then I gues I am a hypocrit.
 
R

Rich

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Wrong, you have pointed out the dangers of going down the path of state selective sterilization which was being mooted in the thread. It worries me that you cannot see the difference between that post and American bashing as I may disagree with you on issues but still thought of you as an intelligent person who just liked to wind the Yanks up.

Brian

My post that you took issue with was a direct response to another poster who brought up the topic of guns in society and what to do about it, I pointed out what had already been done here. Since we are likened to the US and very often follow their lead it's perfectly valid to compare the two societies
 
R

Rich

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now we have to think about the carers ,,,
what about thos who look after their elderly relations - this is becoming an unpaid job and they end up having to live of benefits...

- but as to the gist of the post , those that can work, should be made to work ..

if I rmember correctly in Germany (going back nearly 20 years)
to be able to benefit from the state system you had to be employed for x amount of time and shoul you be unemployed for a short period a percentage of your first pay packet had to go back into the system

g

You should point that out to the Scots;) You also haven't pointed out that "free" care for the elderly doesn't exist over there either
 
R

Rich

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but to have him shot down just because some shiftless piece of filth simply felt like it must be beyond belief for the parents.

Surely we don't know the actual circumstances yet and we are merely being fed press speculation on the actual events?;)
 
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The_Doc_Man

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We have a plethora of world views. In a free society, everyone gets to express their world views. They get to vote on what their government will do to further their world views - but only indirectly, by picking candidates who promise X, Y, or Z.

There are gaps as wide as the width of the universe among those world views. Whether we discuss abortion, gun control, the welfare state, taxes, etc.

The problem is that there are those who will invariably try to "play" the system to gain rights or benefits they have not worked to earn. Whether you call those people slackers or no-good, lazy bums is fine with me. A rose by any other name,...

Where we run into issues - in reality and on this forum - is that this difference in world view makes for wildly different "solutions" to problems that aren't even visible to some folks who see things from a different angle.

Case in point - gun control. The USA arms itself because the police cannot do it all.

Case in point - socialized medicine. The indigent have barely enough money for food most of the time. They can't afford insurance. Without medical care they die young. So many children live with parents who must use emergency rooms and free clinics, for which the waiting lines are anywhere from long to horrendous. But taking more out of everyone's taxes INCREASES the number of people who can't afford insurance any more.

Case in point - abortion. This emotional issue is so divisive that anything I say will be taken as heresy by the side opposite the points I mention. It is so divisive that even LANGUAGE becomes an issue.
 

ColinEssex

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Odd though that the Trade Centre relatives got $5 million each for their dead, yet New Orleans gets forgotten and the excuse is that it's an insurance problem.

Did anyone see the memorial service at the world trade centre site recently? (I forget the date now) See all those people with a smirk on their face giving thanks for the $5 million? Crocodile tears they call it don't they?

Col
 

Pauldohert

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Theres a good reason for that Col - the world trade center is a direct result of US policy over oil therefore a tiny bit of profits can paid to the victims as guilt tax.

I don't see the oil based Bush family changing policy very quick - good profits, 1000s dead, a huge compensation payout = huge profits for the bush family etc and the rest can be tolerated.

New Orleans is a act of God. - Which only later will be linked as a direct result of US oil policy and global warming.

You reap what you sow!

You see a conspiracy in everything Col!!!!
 

ColinEssex

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You see a conspiracy in everything Col!!!!

Yes, and usually quite accurately too.

Notice the USA General recently who admitted the Iraq war was for oil? that differs somewhat to the oil rich Bush line.

Col
 

scott-atkinson

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There will be a Crimewatch reconstruction on the TV tonight as there is still a wall of silence surrounding this crime.

Lets hope it brings someons conscious to bear and they hand themsleves in or someone else does.
 

The_Doc_Man

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Paul -

New Orleans is a act of God.

Uhhh, sorry, wrong answer. KATRINA was an act of God. The failure of the levees has been shown by engineering studies to have been a (non-)act of Man. The consensus of the report is as follows:

1. USA's laws - including several "Waterways" acts - give jurisdiction and responsibility to the US Government for construction and maintenance of flood control structures along major navigable waterways and direct tributaries. The jurisdiction extends to flood control structures whose overflow empties into the navigable waterways. Therefore, the N'Awlins flood-control canals, which emptied into the Mississippi River, Lake Ponchartrain, and the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet (short name: Mr. GO) all fall under federal jurisdiction.

2. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is the specific part of the US Government onto which this responsibility falls. They are responsible for construction, inspection, and maintenance of such structures, including levees that enclose the "outfall" canals - as we call them here.

3. A team of engineers examined the levees that were breached. Their conclusion was that the Corps had failed in their duty to inspect the levees during construction and had subsequently failed after construction to keep up meaningful examination. Had either of these steps been done, the sub-standard materials used in construction of certain parts of those levees might have been detected in time to do some reinforcement. But that did not happen.

4. As a result, when the water in the canals rose due to Katrina, Bernoulli's Laws took over. The flow in the canal became faster and the pressure at the bottom of the canal got higher. Eventually there was an undercutting that led to the catastrophic failure of those levees. And in the three or four places where that occurred, the same reason was found each time. Negligence by the A C of E in their oversight duties.

So, I'll agree that Katrina was an act of God. But what happened to N'Awlins was an act of men. Money-grubbing, profit-seeking, short-sighted, corner-cutting men who used cheaper materials than required for the job just so they could make a buck. Lazy men in cushy government jobs who went through the motions of inspection but who were just drawing a paycheck for showing up, essentially. Corrupt men in office who approved the contracts for their friends to get some work via a bid for public contract that was not truly responsive because of the inclusion of sub-standard materials.

Pardon me if I get emotional. Having water destroy the bottom half of your house and take with it years - or lifetimes - of memories... this is not a pleasant event to have in one's life. I talk tough sometimes, but this is the only situation where I might actually act on my emotions rather than my logic. There are certain parties who need to be given a public treatment we haven't seen in years - tar and feathers followed by ridiing out of town on a rail, carried by an angry mob.
 

Pauldohert

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Sorry yes! I obviuosly don't know the ins and outs like you do - I am sure here in the UK we were told the levees were built for category 3 storms and Katrina was a category 4 - or something - I'll look that source up - I may be wrong, was that not common knowledge before Katrina.

Though if you thank God for the food on your table - you can thank God for the water its now floating on too.
 
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statsman

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Though if you thank God for the food on your table - you can thank God for the water its now floating on too.

A pretty cheap shot, even for you.

God did not build a city on a major river near the sea on land that is below sea level, Man did.

God did not build a sub standard dike and levy system to keep the water out, Man did.

If you wish to assign blame, at least point in the right direction.
 
R

Rich

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A pretty cheap shot, even for you.

God did not build a city on a major river near the sea on land that is below sea level, Man did.

God did not build a sub standard dike and levy system to keep the water out, Man did.

If you wish to assign blame, at least point in the right direction.

Who brought the storm then?:confused: and not only that but who made these imperfect men in the first place?
 

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