Transgenders in Olympics

[Vassago]

@BlueSpruce
Let me help you a bit. This is one of those cases:

Laurel Hubbard's Athletic Career Highlights

• Pre-Transition: Hubbard competed in men's weightlifting events at a junior level in her 20s, setting national records in the men's category. She stopped competing for 15 years while struggling with her gender identity.
• Post-Transition: After transitioning to female in her mid-30s, she resumed her career and became eligible to compete in women's events under the International Olympic Committee's (IOC) 2015 guidelines (which required testosterone levels below a certain threshold).
• International Medals: She has won several international medals in the women's category, including:
  • A silver medal at the 2017 World Weightlifting Championships.
  • Two gold medals at the 2019 Pacific Games.
  • A gold medal at the Roma 2020 World Cup.

I think this post actually sums it up well, but not in the way you think. She got a Silver in 2017? Did a biological woman beat her?

 

[KitaYama]

I think this post actually sums it up well, but not in the way you think. She got a Silver in 2017? Did a biological woman beat her?

Yes. But it was her first try. Later all Gold. And he had national level titles before transition.

 

[Isaac]

I suspect certain crowds will never be pleased because it's not the act of trans people in sports that offends them, but that trans people exist.

Playing devil's advocate, I think it may have more to do with their discomfort knowing that there is a movement afoot that seems to be changing, gaining traction, increasing whispering in the ears of 12 yr olds who are ALREADY going through the most difficult and confusing time of their life, whispering that they may be unhappy wiht their gender - a topic already of prime confusion to anyone going through puberty - and making the situation diabolically worse, and that that "whispering" is being encouraged and amplified and utilized by some in the spheres of education, administration, law, and medicine. (well medicine you already know their motivation - $$ - since the explosion of transgenderism in the last few years, multi billions of new facilities being built, etc. etc.)

 

[Vassago]

It's such a minority case. There are also many more intersex people in the world than some realize. Swyer Syndrome is about 1 in 80,000 people. Born with XY chromosomes but biologically presenting female. They are often born with highly underdeveloped testes that never descend (of course) and can have varying degrees of testosterone.

This is only one syndrome. There are many others that completely throw out the male/female identification rules. Where would they fall?

I think we just need to move away from gender separated sports. Science has taught us that this is a fallacy.

 

[Vassago]

Playing devil's advocate, I think it may have more to do with their discomfort knowing that there is a movement afoot that seems to be changing, gaining traction, increasing whispering in the ears of 12 yr olds who are ALREADY going through the most difficult and confusing time of their life, whispering that they may be unhappy wiht their gender - a topic already of prime confusion to anyone going through puberty - and making the situation diabolically worse, and that that "whispering" is being encouraged and amplified and utilized by some in the spheres of education, administration, law, and medicine. (well medicine you already know their motivation - $$ - since the explosion of transgenderism in the last few years, multi billions of new facilities being built, etc. etc.)

Oh please. This is not happening at any level of scale. There are far more teens questioning their gender or sexual orientation in silence because their parents would at best disown them, at worse, hurt them. That is far far more common, and I think you know it.

 

[Vassago]

The athletic competitors rule. If enough of them complain, they could boycott and then events get cancelled and money is lost.

I don't think there would be a much complaint with finding a better way to separate levels of physical ability. I don't know the answer, but this isn't working anymore already if people are going to turn something that is practically a non-issue like simply 5 trans college students across the country competing in a sport of their identity into some kind of issue suddenly because the base tells you to. Smoke and mirrors.

 

[Vassago]

I'm being reminded partly of why I left.

 

[Isaac]

It's used to be such a minority case

 

[Isaac]

something that is practically a non-issue like simply 5 trans college students across the country competing in a sport of their identity into some kind of issue suddenly because the base tells you to. Smoke and mirrors.

That's a myth, there's a dozen articles every month about trans taking prizes and winning contests - maybe it's 5 when you limit it to professional sports, but that's already admittedly a tiny population

 

[Isaac]

It's such a minority case. There are also many more intersex people in the world than some realize. Swyer Syndrome is about 1 in 80,000 people. Born with XY chromosomes but biologically presenting female. They are often born with highly underdeveloped testes that never descend (of course) and can have varying degrees of testosterone.

This is only one syndrome. There are many others that completely throw out the male/female identification rules. Where would they fall?

I think we just need to move away from gender separated sports. Science has taught us that this is a fallacy.

Your making it seem like intersex people is a significant issue comes across to me exactly the same way me making it seem like transgenders in sports is a significant issue comes across to you.

Anyway, I have little interest in discussing it -it seems simple, keep each gender in their own sport. I'm not even sure why recently it's become so seemingly complex or controversial. Actually I do, because as transgenderism takes on a life of its own, statistically it is bound to become something that has to , unfortunately, be dealt with somehow

 

[Vassago]

That's a myth, there's a dozen articles every month about trans taking prizes and winning contests - maybe it's 5 when you limit it to professional sports, but that's already admittedly a tiny population

Those articles always quote the same instances repeatedly. It's never anything new. It's absolutely not a myth. It was less than 10 students impacted at the time it was signed and everyone applauded like it was some big, world fixing, thing. It's sad really that people can be so led to something to deflect from the real issues in the country.

 

[Vassago]

Your making it seem like intersex people is a significant issue comes across to me exactly the same way me making it seem like transgenders in sports is a significant issue comes across to you.

Anyway, I have little interest in discussing it -it seems simple, keep each gender in their own sport. I'm not even sure why recently it's become so seemingly complex or controversial. Actually I do, because as transgenderism takes on a life of its own, statistically it is bound to become something that has to , unfortunately, be dealt with somehow

It was enough of an issue during the Olympics when everyone accused that woman for being trans because she tested XY yet was born biologically presenting female.

You mean you have little interest in hearing why your position doesn't work. Ok.

 

[Vassago]

It will all work out one way or another. If the athletes are not happy with the governing bodies decisions, the athletes, sponsors, and fans will boycott the events and the transexuals will loose the battle. The moral majority prevails.

I think you overestimate the opposition or underestimate the allies. Probably a combo of both. There's nothing moral about blocking an entire group of people based on a single trait regardless of where their athletic ability actually falls.

 

[Vassago]

Last time I checked, less than 10% of the population is LGBTQ, so they're vastly outnumbered. The moral majority rules. In several countries, those group of people are persecuted.

So that makes it right? Are you wanting a third world country?

 

[Jason Lee Hayes]

My personal view is simple; born a male your a male and a man, born a female your a female and a woman. No one will ever convince me of anything else and if this causes offence then deal with it.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I've been distracted by other forum issues, but it is time to lay to rest a misconception that was offered early in this thread.

There is ONE and ONLY ONE human race. The distinctions between Caucasoid, Mongollid, and Negroid are NOT racial differences. At MOST, and even this is a bit of a stretch, you could speak of "breeds" in equivalence to dog or cat breeds.

The proof of my statement is in reproductive biology. Any member of those three groups can mate with and produce offspring successfully with any other member of any of those groups. BUT (here is the critical part) the children of those groups can continue to mate and produce offspring. And at the end of the reproductive process, what comes out has 23 chromosome pairs, one of which might be an X rather than a Y.

By contrast, mating a horse to a donkey produces a mule, a sterile creature most of the time, unable to mate with other mules, horses, or donkeys. Horses and donkeys are close enough to reproduce but not close enough to propagate through several generations.

As to male and female, I invite folks to look up this specific search string using your favorite browser: Homosexual + brain scan

If you dive into that rabbit hole, you would find that things are not entirely black & white on this subject. The human brain is gendered in terms of some internal structures. I am not a neurosurgeon so don't ask ME for details but if you follow that browser search, you would find out that it is possible for someone with secondary sex characteristics of one sex but brain structures associated with the other sex. Which means that, at least sometimes, their gender preferences don't match their biological structure. You don't have to believe me - you can look it up for yourself. All I am saying is that the reason some people are gay isn't because of some choice they made - it was because of an issue developed during gestation. If a gay person made ANY choice, it was to finally realize s/he was different from others in gender preferences and characteristics.

What you say about hormonal effects IS true and I'm not disputing that. But the motivations of the people born with that mixed biology aren't the nefarious monsters that some make them out to be. When a trans person says "I feel as though I was born into the wrong body" - it might be true.

 

[Vassago]

I don't have a problem with accepting gay, bi, or transgenders. What I do have a problem with is several in those groups aggressively trying to convert straight people, minors included, and then bragging about it.

Who? Where? You know specific examples? The only people that say this happens are the people against trans folks to begin with. It simply doesn't happen, full stop.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

In my college days, I worked as a musician in a bar on Bourbon Street in New Orleans, near the eastern end of the French Quarter. That is a popular hangout for all sorts of folks, gay included. I talked with many gay and trans people and never once did I see "gay grooming" of kids. Personally, I think the whole thing is brought about by child psychologists who want to assure they have a bunch of misadjusted children to grow and become paying customers of their future mental clinics.

 

[NauticalGent]

Personally, I think the whole thing is brought about by child psychologists who want to assure they have a bunch of misadjusted children to grow and become paying customers of their future mental clinics.

It would not surprise me

 

[Isaac]

Those articles always quote the same instances repeatedly. It's never anything new. It's absolutely not a myth. It was less than 10 students impacted at the time it was signed and everyone applauded like it was some big, world fixing, thing. It's sad really that people can be so led to something to deflect from the real issues in the country.

Heartily disagree with you. They are not doing that. There are many transgenders on many high school teams all over the country, and that matters. It's also not just taking a trophy, it's being on the team in the first place, it's about getting roughed up, it's about locker rooms and being forced to share them with the opposite sex.