2003 or 2007?

NigelShaw

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Hi guys

I'm currently using 2007 but have my original 2003. If you were me, what would you use?

A. 2007. Glossier forms and a few extra things, nice ribbon (only if you want it)

B. Less sparkly bits, optional toolbar creation

Personally, I'm thinking of stepping back to 2003 as I want some custom menus not like the ribbon, but like traditional standard menus.

What is your preference? Can't install both so which one?


Cheers

Nigel
 
I'm for 2003. I actually prefer 2010 over 2003 but 2007 is definitely the "Access 95", IMHO and is too much quirky for its own good and really doesn't have any "must-have" features unlike 2010. So if you can't go directly to 2010, stick with 2003.
 
so if I'm (which I am) being forced to upgrade from '97, 2010 is the preferable option?
 
Geez, that's a big leap there. I am not the best person to answer this because I started on Access 2003 (though I used 2000 file format for long while since it was the default) and I know that Access 97 is on Jet 3.5 whereas 2000-2003 are Jet 4.0 while 2007 is ACE 12.0 and 2010 is ACE 14.0. In theory, DAO hasn't changed much and you shouldn't see your code breaking since the changes were mainly enhancements. But once again, I'm not the most qualified person to answer that question.

At least, I can provide some reasons to go to 2010 directly (even if it means breaking some stuff):

1) Ability to use data macros (think of it as triggers attached directly to the table. Instead of doing validation in form's BeforeUpdate event, you can validate in your table's BeforeChange event and be assured this will always runs no matter what form your user use.

2) Trusted Documents makes everything sane again WRT trusting the VBA & unsafe actions. No more wrangling with the annoying security dialogs or tinkering with macro security / digital signatures / registry. Click Yes once and it always run. Done.

3) Shared Images gallery means you can have a richer form without the bloat by storing the image once and reference the same copy in several place all over your objects.

4) Native Webbrowser control. On the surface, it sounds meh but when you consider that you can now use it to manipulate some of web services, it suddenly get much more interesting.

5) Navigation Control which is basically a tab control + subform control rolled into a single control.

6) Ability to easily customize Ribbon. That was sorely missed in 2007 and though I am not a big fan of Ribbon the ability to easily customize Ribbon just as we could with menus in 2003 & prior makes it much simpler and you can export the XML, which makes customization quicker to build and re-use.

There may be few more I missed but I think that's the most interesting features. 2010 also introduces ability to create web database but I don't feel it's sufficiently mature and requires too much (you have to have most expensive version of SharePoint to do any kind of web publishing). Now, to be fair, here's some downers:

1) Ribbon. 2007 was awful. 2010 has made it bearable and though Microsoft claims it has improved productivity, I'm not really convinced it is in fact better than menus. At best, it's just a lateral move, swapping one UI for other UI without major gain overall. At worst, it's slow & takes too much space.

2) 2007 File Format. Microsoft decided that instead of creating a new file format they'd continue to use same 2007 file format but disable any objects that uses 2010 features. In theory, it'd allow you to continue to use a file created in 2010 in 2007 as long you didn't use any 2010-only feature. The trouble, however, was that too many users were finding that it wouldn't be usable in 2007 and that there were 2010 stuff added anyway even if they tried their best to not do this. This makes it very frustrating to develop for 2007 if you're using 2010 so for that reason I tend to think that if you have to develop for 2007, use 2007 only. Do not try to do it from 2010. Assume any file touched by 2010 is corrupted and thus 2010-only. Note, this analysis doesn't apply to 2003 & prior formats so it's not that a big of deal if we're talking 2003 / 2010. (Note: 2010 should be able to read 97 file format but you can't do anything much with it and would have to convert it to 2003 to get full editing functionality).

3) No User-level security with ACCDB file format. You can still have ULS if you continue to use MDB file format but of course you can't have any 2010 features. Many people were understandably upset over this major omission even though most acknowledged that ULS was utterly weak; it did serve an useful permission as a corraling system that did operate at engine level. There's alternatives, at least such as Tom van Stiphout's example of using Active Directory at accesssecurityblog.com.

4) No replication for ACCDB file format. However, the substitution is that you would have replication with SharePoint (note that in this specific case, you need not have the expensive edition; the free edition that comes with any Windows server can satisfy this requirement) and in a way it's better than the old Jet replication because it requires no client setup.

5) Multi-Valued fields and Attachment fields. They were added primarily to be compatible with SharePoint lists, but are totally not normalized and not developer-friendly. Avoid.



I hope this helps illustrate.
 
thanks Banana, that is great. I'm no great fan of the ribbon concept in Office but are getting used to it. For what I do, '97 was fine however the boffins that control our environment have decided it's time to move on. I have 'upgraded' my core applications to 2003 at times to use them in other locations but have deleted the end result and never developed anything major in that environment... I have major trouble finding the buttons for Open/Design/New!!! lol!
 
I have never used dropdown Menus, instead used a form based Menu system so I didn't have the problem with the transformation to a Ribbon.

Yes I did upgrade from Access 97 to Access 2007. I agree in the main with banana but I would skip 2010 and await the next version that is fully web enabled.

Advantages of upgrading really comes down to the User Interface and 2007 is a great improvement. Bear in mind, this is comestic and if you want an aesthetically pleasing interface go for the 2007 upgrade.

Disadvantages, Access 1997, is still a get environment to develop in and Access 2003, I believe is relatively stable, except I believe SP3.

I have no regrets going to Access 2007 Alan Browne has some good tips:

http://allenbrowne.com/Access2007.html

There were few showstoppers, although the lack of drop down Menus is a pain. Of all the enhancements, the ability to use images in their native format was the biggest improvment. OLE is my major bug bear.

Simon
 
I use 2003 for 99% of my work but I have 3 workstations on my desk. One has 2003, one has 97 and the other will have 2007 installed in the near future.

For me the choice is simple. Where I work all but about 4 PC's have 2003 installed, so I need to be creating mdb files rather than accdb files and everything has to be 2003 compatible.

That makes 2003 the version I use most often.


If you are creating databases for others I'd recommend seeing what version they have before you upgrade anything, unless you are upgrading all PC's.
 
nigel

why do you say you can't have both A2003 and A2007. You can.

If you are providing databases for clients, then you p[ossibly need ot work at the lowest level that the clients have. eg, If they have several copies of A2003, you dont want to FORCE them to upgrade to a later version, do you?
 
I do work for clients and therefore have to have multiple versions. However, I simply refuse to install them side by side. I have several virtual machines for different combinations of OS & Office version (as well few other programs) so I never have to install them side by side.

IMHO, side by side installations only brings pains and heartbreak. I assume that was what nigel had meant though you're absolutely correct that the developer shouldn't feel they can't have both versions (separately on different machines); they ought.
 
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I think 2007 is better because there is lot of new features in it.
 
Well, unfortunately, new features ≠ desirable features.

I think 2007 had more undesirables than desirables, IMHO.
 
Are you referring to no drop down Menus and the Ribbon?

Simon
 
No, more than that.

1) Ability to add new columns to table in datasheet view. (we all know better to not use tables directly and only via forms but when novices see this feature, what do you expect them to think? Give them a button to push and they will push it. This only means more worse database design)

2) Multi-valued fields. Ughhh. It may be "normalized" in fast and loose sense of word but it's impossible to work with compared to plain old many-many relationships & junction tables.

3) Attachment fields which are actually MVFs! While it's certainly nice to have native ability to attach files, but it's MVF so there's less control over how you can attach files and it only encourage bad database design.

4) Control wizard no longer writes VBA code; you can only get macros when using wizard. I don't use wizard but this has been issues for some people. In 2010, they improved the macro designer so it's not that bad but in 2007, it's just not worth it.

5) No User-Level Security for the new file format. What they failed to understand is that ULS served a useful purpose as effective system to manage access even though it wasn't a proper security. The ability to manage access at engine level was quite convenient. This can be replicated with using VBA behind forms & distributing *DE files but it remains the case that when we add new forms, it's up to us to consistently apply whatever homebrewn access control we've created.

There may be more I forgot about but all in all, I do truly think that Access 2007 is more likely to lead an unwary user astray and build badly normalized database with all those new "features". In many respect, I feel it is really the "Access 95".
 
There is nothing I don't disagree with.

Personally, I think that you have to take Access with a pinch of salt. It can be slightly fadish or limiting:

Lookups in tables!
DAP / ADP
Dropdown Menus

Just because you can do something within Access it doesn't necessarily mean it is good.

Macros
OLE handling on images!
Ah, those wonderful Multi-value fields something I haven't seen since Pick OS / Universe.
Attachment fields, this is a database, even in html you externally reference other files.

ULS is probably most important lost however I will always tell the story of the Executive Payroll that was left on the Computer Room's Printer. The staff needed a lot of support that particular afternoon.

If I think about some of the stupid things I did when I first started using Access, we all have to learn and nowadays there are forums to point out the error of our ways. So what does it matter, in one sense, which version of Access you use there will some features that are detrimental so you have to learn to be judicious.

I like Access versions with a 7 in them Access 1997 / 2007

Simon
 
Sure, you're right that everything has their set of "features" that are anything but a feature. I guess my objection was primarily over the degree rather than actual differences. It's bad enough to give novices a gun. Why insist on giving them knife and a rope, too? ;)

Also, to be fair to Pick (dunno what Universe advertises themselves as), I don't think it tried to sell itself as a relational database. I also do think MVF *would* have been a good idea had it simply meant a quick way to create a proper many-many relationship so the novice is none the wiser but we still get a nice & normalized database with less effort on everybody's parts. They blew that opportunity. Drats. Then there's Chris Date who claims that MVF is perfectly relational. It's the SQL guys who got it all wrong. :D

So yes, you're right, we all have to learn to be judicious regardless of what versions we have. I just can't help but cringe over every extra weapon they heap on the hapless novice. :)
 
nigel

why do you say you can't have both A2003 and A2007. You can.

If you are providing databases for clients, then you p[ossibly need ot work at the lowest level that the clients have. eg, If they have several copies of A2003, you dont want to FORCE them to upgrade to a later version, do you?

Hi Dave,

the problem with having both versions is switching between the two and using other Office platforms. I seem to get a continual 'Setup' form that lasts ages and is very irritating. If you could have them both on withiut this issue, then great


N
 

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