Access vs .NET (1 Viewer)

[zeroaccess]

I'm the developer of an Access application that I will also use myself in my line of work.

Sometimes I hear ideas thrown around by management regarding a web interface, which is a whole different ballgame and would require a complete rewrite and another year+ of development time. Most of it learning as I am not a programmer. And I can't imagine the company shelling out hundreds of dollars per month for a Visual Studio license or whatever else is needed to make that happen, for a program with 20 users in one office. Which, will rely on the PDF reports generated by the program, which if I'm understanding correctly, would not be possible from the web. At least not easily. And that's not even mentioning other pitfalls such as reliance on the internet.

I decided to do a bit of searching for facts on this topic, but ran into many opinions, expectedly.

Here are some of the answers I found - some by people who seem to lack the qualifications (Access experience?) to answer the question yet can't help but offer their own speculation.

https://softwareengineering.stackex...882/database-gui-programming-net-vs-ms-access

Here is I think a more reasonable discussion: https://stackoverflow.com/questions...from-ms-access-application-to-net-application

Also: https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/F...ase-scalability-how-many-users-can-it-support

What is your take?

 

[MajP]

If you can program in .NET it is way more capable than access. The VBE blows away anything in VBA. You can do it for free. Sql express and .Net Express (vs Community). ADO.NET is amazing in my opinion. The average person can program in Access, but you need real skills to venture into ADO.NET. If you are an advanced Access programmer it is doable. Now I am mind boggled why they have not put a wrapper around this. MS seems to hate Access and have been trying to kill it, but without a replacement. A VB.net front end with a Sql Server back end properly packaged with utilities to make it easier to use would be a great solution.

For fun I redid the entire Northwind database in VB.NET mirroring all the forms to look exactly like the Access version. It was not easy. Reports were even more complicated. However, they could make this way easier. Yes it is a great alternative, but the cost of an in house developer is a lot more than a license for Access that anyone can use.

 

[zeroaccess]

For fun I redid the entire Northwind database in VB.NET mirroring all the forms to look exactly like the Access version. It was not easy. Reports were even more complicated. However, they could make this way easier. Yes it is a great alternative, but the cost of an in house developer is a lot more than a license for Access that anyone can use.

This is a great answer and shows why Access still has a place for average developers like myself, working within its capabilities.

 

[Galaxiom]

MS seems to hate Access and have been trying to kill it, but without a replacement.

I've not seen any evidence that would suggest Microsoft hates Access or has any intention of killing Access. Just unsubstantiated claims by Access-phobes.

 

[MajP]

I've not seen any evidence that would suggest Microsoft hates Access or has any intention of killing Access. Just unsubstantiated claims by Access-phobes

Are you kidding me.! Access and VBA looks exactly the same as 1995. There has been no updates only to make it compatible with share point. Fail Fail. You need to look at Visual studio to see how neglected Access is.

 

[Galaxiom]

Are you kidding me.! Access and VBA looks exactly the same as 1995.

What utter nonsense.

What has Microsoft ever done for Access?
Accdb format.
Alright, except for the accdb format, what has Microsoft ever done for Access?
Deployment.
OK, except for accdb and deployment, what has Microsoft ever done for Access?
Trusted sites, intellisense on the query designer, databars in Conditional Formatting .........

You need to look at Visual studio to see how neglected Access is.

I'm quite familiar with Visual Studio. Far more familiar with it than you apparently are with pre-2007 Access.

 

[Galaxiom]

Are you kidding me.! Access and VBA looks exactly the same as 1995. There has been no updates only to make it compatible with share point. Fail Fail.

BTW If you value your MVP status you might reconsider the wisdom of bagging Microsoft in your posts.

 

[zeroaccess]

BTW If you value your MVP status you might reconsider the wisdom of bagging Microsoft in your posts.

Nothing wrong with being critical of MS.

However, I think clearly a lot of changes have been made to Access since '95.

 

[CJ_London]

I think these days the issue Access needs to address is around user access whilst on the move. Number of concurrent users has not been a problem for many years and it is easy to upsize to a sql server backend if required - agreed you might want to make changes to take advantage of the additional functionality and there is an assumption the app has been designed well in the first place.

With .accdb/e data security and password encryption is an order magnitude better than .mdb/e. SQL Server does have better data security and is generally more robust in terms of stability.

Access is not recommended for working wirelessly. But there are solutions - terminal server or citrix for example. But they cost money and part of the problem is Access is viewed as being 'free'. But then the alternative is web pages, and they aren't free to develop and maintain - plus you have to write for different browsers.

Although not mentioned, arguments about performance are a red herring. Properly set up Access is just as fast as SQL Server - in fact one of my clients migrated to sql server then back again because performance dropped right off - due to SQL server being under specified and over used with other apps, and the cost of upgrading was considered way too expensive.

Access has its place - if you want customers/suppliers/consumers to be able to connect to your data, access is not the solution. If you have users all on the same network, a solution in access will be the most cost effective. Access front end with sql server or mysql backend probably provides the best ROI, but the first question to ask is 'how will your users be using the application'

 

[pbaldy]

Access and VBA looks exactly the same as 1995. There has been no updates only to make it compatible with share point. Fail Fail.

I'm with Galaxiom, this is laughable. Sure, we all wish more updates had been made, but the Access team has made a lot of improvements over the years. I'm curious about your "Access MVP" title. Are you referring to the award from Microsoft? I'll be surprised if so.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Although not mentioned, arguments about performance are a red herring. Properly set up Access is just as fast as SQL Server

Thank you, CJ. I have made this point before at some length in a different section.

 

[MajP]

Wow, where is the Kool-aid so I can get some.

BTW If you value your MVP status you might reconsider the wisdom of bagging Microsoft in your posts.

That is funny. What exactly is going to happen? Are they going to cut my monthly page check? Are they going to ban me from sharing my wealth of knowledge on the internet. Are the men in black suits coming to get me. I am shaking in my boots, hoping they do not take my copy of MS Office and wipe my memory.

Here is a good article that sums it up. Been posted here before.

Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won’t Die

What lessons can we learn from old code that becomes unkillable?

medium.com

I'm with Galaxiom, this is laughable. Sure, we all wish more updates had been made, but the Access team has made a lot of improvements over the years.

Seriously, out of curiosity what are some of these big improvements? Multi value fields? That is a winner we all love. Or navigation forms. A solution to a non problem. There has been some aesthetic improvements, but the only improvement I know of is bound image control and themes (which I could care less about). Heck a lot of the most useable features no longer even work in 64bit. FlexGrid, Treeview, Listview, etc. 2007 brought a nicer interface with the navigation pane and tabbed forms, but as a developer most of the features were just window dressing. Integration with Sharepoint? How many threads do you see on this site concerned about that issue? ADODB came, but that is not an Access feature but a generic VB/VBA.

Just unsubstantiated claims by Access-phobes.

An Access Phobe? Calling me an Access Phobe is just stupid. Clearly, I am a prolific posters on the internet on the subject with 10s of thousands of posts, and one of the most knowledgeable persons on the subject. Have you seen any of my posts on this forum that make you think otherwise? If so please point those posts out where I do not seem to know my Access. I will step up my game. So clearly not an Access Phobe, just disappointed that they have refused to grow it seeing what it could be.

I'm quite familiar with Visual Studio. Far more familiar with it than you apparently are with pre-2007 Access.

I just really doubt that. I have been an active contributor on other forums going back to 2000, my knowledge of pre 2007 is extensive. I can lists the features that came in 2007 the last big change if you would like.

 

[MajP]

So I had to think about what has actually been worthwhile. They did fix the overhead from storing objects like images and documents, and provided the attachment field. However, any large db is still storing that externally.
They gave the crappy date picker and took away the usable calendar control so now everyone writes their own CC.

 

[Galaxiom]

What exactly is going to happen? Are they going to cut my monthly page check?

They could take away your MVP status which you obviously value enough to put under your name.

Seriously, out of curiosity what are some of these big improvements? Multi value fields? That is a winner we all love. Or navigation forms. A solution to a non problem.

I use very few of the new features and like you have a serious disregard for some such as Multivalue fields and Navigation forms. In fact unless I need to be able to read xlsx files I stick to the mdb format because I like being able to sign the code directly in the file rather than farting about with distribution and trusted locations. Since I use SQL Server backend with Windows Authentication, the improved security of the accdb format is irrelevant to me.

One new feature I do like and use is the control layout which saves a lot of time laying out controls, especially on Continuous Forms. This design tool is available in later versions and doesn't require accdb files to work.

But that doesn't matter. The point I was making was that there is no evidence that Microsoft is trying to kill Access. They spent a lot of money doing this stuff whether you like and use the features or not.

An Access Phobe? Calling me an Access Phobe is just stupid.

It is a risk you take when you repeat unsubstantiated nonsense written by Access-phobes.

Clearly, I am a prolific posters on the internet on the subject with 10s of thousands of posts, and one of the most knowledgeable persons on the subject. Have you seen any of my posts on this forum that make you think otherwise? If so please point those posts out where I do not seem to know my Access.

You demonstrated a clear lack of understanding of the Rnd() function just yesterday. Micron has deleted the thread since, probably to avoid embarrassing themselves for the same kind of misunderstanding and erroneous criticisms you made.

I have been an active contributor on other forums going back to 2000, my knowledge of pre 2007 is extensive. I can lists the features that came in 2007 the last big change if you would like.

You were the one who said:

Access and VBA looks exactly the same as 1995. There has been no updates only to make it compatible with share point.

My conclusion that you were not familiar with pre-2007 was perfectly reasonable.

Don't say dumb things if you don't want to be judged on them.

 

[MajP]

@Micron. I apologize for what I said and how I said it. It was never my intent to criticize or embarrass you or the OP. Point taken, and will try to do better.

@Galaxiom

You demonstrated a clear lack of understanding of the Rnd() function just yesterday.

OK, that is one is hilarious! There are areas were I am lacking such as API or SQL server integration, but random variables is definitely not one of those.
I will let the jury decide on that one based on my extensive prior posts on the subject. I think I pretty much got it.
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[Galaxiom]

@Galaxiom
OK, that is one is hilarious! There are areas were I am lacking such as API or SQL server integration, but random variables is definitely not one of those.
I will let the jury decide on that one based on my extensive prior posts on the subject.

You included Randomize in those functions. Just like I said needed to be included in Micron's function but was missing.
That was the whole point I was making but you just didn't get it.

You seem more intent on attacking me but your efforts are about as effective as being flogged with a warm lettuce.
(It is an Australianism attributed to a rather colourful former Prime Minister.)

https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;adv=yes;orderBy=customrank;page=0;query=%22warm%20lettuce%22%20keating%20Dataset:hansardr,hansardr80;rec=1;resCount=Default

 

[MajP]

Just like I said needed to be included in Micron's function but was missing. That was the whole point I was making but you just didn't get it

Well I must have not been hearing you, because I definitiely would not disagree. Half of my posts are on the need to randomize and why if you want a new sequence. if you look at any of those posts I clearly spell out what happens if you do not randomize. It is the gist of half of my arguments. Look at my discussion with Arnelgp. I had to make a DB to prove you would get a reproducible sequence. So I find it pretty unlikely that I would think otherwise after arguing the same point multilple times.

 

[pbaldy]

MajP, I don't think you addressed this:

I'm curious about your "Access MVP" title. Are you referring to the award from Microsoft?