Are you an atheist? (4 Viewers)

[aziz rasul]

Although Islam is increasing in the West this is to a large extent due to migration and the higher birth rate among Muslims.

The number of reverts in the west has been increasing over several decades. I was not talking about immigrants.

I love it when Muslims debate. Their post do far more damage to the reputation of their faith than any atheist could ever hope to.

Those who revert back to Islam, will I’m sure disagree with you. When I read about Islam, my faith is increased not diminished. If it’s diminished in your eyes, that’s your affair.

Let's watch Aziz dig a deeper hole in responding to this:

Hmmm, why would you think that? If you don’t look into the details of what you say, then surely you can never understand what Islam is about. Those who are Muslims and those who among the non-Muslims whose hearts want to turn to the truth and want to get out of the deep hole and try to obtain the truth won’t think like you, where everything is automatically negative in Islam.

67. O Messenger! Proclaim the (message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His mission. And Allaah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). For Allaah guideth not those who reject Faith.
68. Say: O People of the Scripture! Ye have naught (of guidance) till ye observe the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto you from your Lord. That which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them. But grieve not for the disbelieving folk.
Qur’an - Surah al-Ma’aida (The Table Spread) 5:67-8 See also 7:2-3.

Mohammed tell us that men can have as many as four wives but a woman must be limited to one husband. Mohammed had at least a dozen wives, the youngest he married when she was six years old.

It is God who made the rule of a Muslim man marrying up to 4 women, not the Prophet (peace be upon him). When the verse was revealed he was already married to those wives you mentioned. He also married Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) when she was 16 and entered her husband’s home when she was 19. The hadith which mentions the ages less 10 years has error in it. Muslim historians were able to work the age according to events that took place when she was born etc. to establish her age.

Galaxiom, do you accept the Qur’an and hadith?

Also note that the girl's father was appointed by Mohammed as the first caliph

Wrong. Abu Bakr (May Allah be pleased with him) was chosen by his peers after the death of Muhammad (peace be upon him). He was actually nominated by Omar bib Khattab (May Allah be pleased with him).

Why should I have the slightest respect for someone who insults my intelligence by insisting that everyone is born a Muslim?

I simply gave you evidence from the Qur’an in regard to this. You don’t have accept anything I say.

 

[aziz rasul]

I try alot to be a follower of Christ (Christian).

I'm not convinced that Christians do actually follow Jesus (peace be upon him) correctly as he wished to be followed. For example did Jesus (peace be upon him) say he was the begotten son of God or that we should worship him?

116. And behold! Allaah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allaah'?” He will say: “Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
117. “Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
118. “If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise.”
119. Allaah will say: “This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are gardens, with rivers flowing beneath, - their eternal Home: Allaah well-pleased with them, and they with Allaah: That is the great salvation, (the fulfilment of all desires).
Qur’an - Surah al-Ma’aida (The Table Spread) 5:116-9

 

[Alc]

Galaxiom, do you accept the Qur’an and hadith?

Okay, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess the answer to this one.

 

[Rabbie]

That is really good. I like it. Yes we would all change our mind but it may be too late by then. I try alot to be a follower of Christ (Christian). Everyone has their own belief, and at the end of the end, no one really knows whats going to happen. But if its true, regardless of mankind knowing all or not, I would rather take my chances to believe its all true that God is all that He is...

Yes people can do good things without religion until they know more about it...its a choice, if you don't know more then it won't affect you. People will do what they know. Its a choice of free will. If you don't want it, you don't have to have it, if you want it you shall receive it...

From what I have read in the New Testament Christianity is a religion of love and forgiveness so from my reading a genuine repentance of errors will always be forgiven. But since I have seen no convincing evidence that there is a god I cannot pretend to believe in him.

From a personal point of view I would prefer there to be a christian god and an afterlife but as already said I see no evidence for this

 

[aziz rasul]

From a personal point of view I would prefer there to be a christian god and an afterlife

How about just looking into the fact there is a Creator and there is a hereafter.

 

[Alc]

How about just looking into the fact there is a Creator and there is a hereafter.

You have a book that tellls you this, accompanied by no evidence.
The Christians have the same.
Until someone presents evidence outside of 'it's true because my book says so', you're unlikley to make many converts among people who refuse to take things on faith alone.

 

[Rabbie]

How about just looking into the fact there is a Creator and there is a hereafter.

You just don't get it. There is no credible evidence for the existance of either a creator or an afterlife. Sad but true

 

[spikepl]

LinkedIn, Facebook, webcasts, podcasts, TV shows, WiFi, 4G, 800-toll-free lines ...

One squeek from above, and billions of converts in an instant. But no, a pig in a poke is foisted upon us "unbelievers" instead.

That sure makes a lot of sense. Or perhaps the Almighty has a sense of humour incomprehensible to mere mortals.

 

[Lightwave]

The hadith which mentions the ages less 10 years has error in it.

Finally you concede that errors exist in your religious texts.

You are choosing what to accept and what not to accept in line with the argument and scientific and moral environment in play.

This is intellectually flawed reasoning.

 

[Newbie2012]

So you are a just in case believer?

Brian

No I'm not a just in case believer...its faith & trust believing in God, since mankind doesn't know-all, but its all a learning work in progress...the fact that people already ask questions like 'is there a God', mean they are theologians, asking life questions...and then its a matter of finding their answers, either 'for' or 'against' God.

 

[Brianwarnock]

........Everyone has their own belief, and at the end of the end, no one really knows whats going to happen. But if its true, regardless of mankind knowing all or not, I would rather take my chances to believe its all true that God is all that He is...

......

Sorry but that is how that read to me

Brian

 

[Newbie2012]

Sorry but that is how that read to me

Brian

I can't be really summed up like that...but I also don't really get into long dialogued apologetics and statements with what I do know, to give an impression of everything I am at this time...I'm a work in progress as we all are, as we learn more...

 

[Galaxiom]

its faith & trust believing in God

I am at this time...I'm a work in progress as we all are, as we learn more...

Once a person begins to use faith as their guide then the opportunity to learn more is severely curtailed because they have lost the means to assess the relative merits of claim and quickly decend into circular logic.

 

[Newbie2012]

Once a person begins to use faith as their guide then the opportunity to learn more is severely curtailed because they have lost the means to assess the relative merits of claim and quickly decend into circular logic.

That's only if you're leaving what God can do, out of the equation...it's not mankinds capable, limited faith, it's Gods faith that He gives to the believer

 

[Rabbie]

That's only if you're leaving what God can do, out of the equation...it's not mankinds capable, limited faith, it's Gods faith that He gives to the believer

I think you have just illustrated Galaxiom's point extremely well. You are just using your belief in god to prove his existence. Why god and not Father Christmas?

 

[aziz rasul]

You have a book that tellls you this, accompanied by no evidence.
The Christians have the same.
Until someone presents evidence outside of 'it's true because my book says so', you're unlikley to make many converts among people who refuse to take things on faith alone.

The evidence was there, but you didn't see it even if you look. If Christians do have evidence, I would like to see it. Many reverts to Islam became Muslims by reading the Qur'an.

You just don't get it. There is no credible evidence for the existance of either a creator or an afterlife. Sad but true

As I said above, the Qur'an holds all the evidence if you open your heart to the truth.

spikepl, those who revert don't just revert in the manner you seem to suggest. Changing your life to become a Muslim is a serious thing from which they will nenefit in this life and in the next. You may mock, but those who revert are content within themselves ina way you could never understand.

Finally you concede that errors exist in your religious texts.

You are choosing what to accept and what not to accept in line with the argument and scientific and moral environment in play.

This is intellectually flawed reasoning.

The fact that there are errors in the hadith literature is not a new revelation. The ahadith is the work of man and therefore subject to error. That is why non-Muslims often quote the hadith to make there arguments. However the Qur'an is the work of God and there are no errors or contradictions. There are 600,000+ hadith but 6,000+ Qur'anic verses. So the sheer volume of data in the hadith literature there are bound to be mistakes. In fact there are some hadith written by non-Muslims that are false in the mix. This is why we have scholars of hadith. So it's not a question of choosing as the Qur'an is correct 100%. Hence there is no flaw rather your misunderstanding of the details or lack of knowledge that makes you say this.

128. Now hath come unto you a Messenger from amongst yourselves: it grieves him that ye should perish: ardently anxious is he over you: to the Believers is he most kind and merciful.
129. But if they turn away, Say: “Allaah sufficeth me: there is no god but He: On Him is my trust,- He the Lord of the Throne (of Glory) Supreme!”
Qur’an - Surah at-Tauba (The Repentance) 9:128-9

 

[Galaxiom]

The evidence was there, but you didn't see it even if you look.

So you keep saying but nothing you have presented holds water.

As I said above, the Qur'an holds all the evidence if you open your heart to the truth.

There is your problem, your love of Islam blinds you to sensibilities. You are using your heart to decide on what is true. The brain is the organ more suited to the purpose and the tenets of your faith would not pass intelligent consideration.

those who revert don't just revert in the manner you seem to suggest.

The numbers "reverting" to Islam are tiny compared to the growth in atheism. BTW. I have yet to see a baby born with any religious beliefs so clearly the natural state of human existence is atheism. The only reverts are to atheism.

Most conversions to Islam are doing it to marry a Muslim. It always has to be this way when such marriages happen because Islam does not permit a Muslim marrying someone from another faith and anyone converting away from Islam is to be killed.

Changing your life to become a Muslim is a serious thing from which they will nenefit in this life and in the next. You may mock, but those who revert are content within themselves ina way you could never understand.

Contentment through ignorance is an empty satisfaction.

You can expect continued mocking. The days of respect for religious beliefs are gone. Moreover it goes well beyond mocking. The beliefs of the religious are not only foolish but are damaging people. I won't stand quietly by and let another generation of children's minds be poisonend by this sick excuse for a philosphy.

 

[Newbie2012]

I think you have just illustrated Galaxiom's point extremely well. You are just using your belief in god to prove his existence. Why god and not Father Christmas?

I have done nothing of a sort...thats just how you're perceiving and reasoning my comment, through your own belief of what you think is true. You wouldn't have the slightest idea as to how my relationship is with God, and what He does to prove many things, to me! doesn't have to be to you...at the moment, God obviously is letting you continue to believe what you want...

 

[Galaxiom]

You wouldn't have the slightest idea as to how my relationship is with God

Yes we do. It is an imaginary relationship because God is an imaginary entity.

Your faith (ie belief without reason) ensures you will see anything as evidence that your god exists. This prevents you from being able to tell the difference between reality and fantasy.

 

[Dick7Access]

Please pray for my friend he is an agnostic, and he also has dyslexia. The poor guy goes to bed every night wondering if there really is a dog.