Are you an atheist? (3 Viewers)

Are you an atheist?


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Bladerunner

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Disregarding part of my earlier statement being an atheist isnt all about not believing in a god but believing in evolution and science is a big part of being an atheist and as said in my above post.

If an almighty Deity appeared infront of me and showed me his ways of creation it would certainly sway my opinions as being an atheist.

I always try to see the both sides of an debate (as to being GOD/Natural Selection here) but at this moment in time there is just more evidence for me to believe in natural selection rather than a god.

Let me help you out here. Evolution is NOT real regardless of what our scientist say. Rem, Golbal warming. well now it is hiding in the ocean,. OH, MY

http://www.ucg.org/science/prove-evolution-false-even-without-bible-0/
 

Bladerunner

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Yes, well, as I said, I don't dispute the existence of a man named Jesus. It's the fantastic things he is supposed to have done that I have trouble with.
There HAS INDEED been findings in recent years, that may not be incontrovertable proof of his existence - and certainly don't prove that Jesus is the Son of God, but thre is evidence that he was a man and maybe was married. They found (as I recall) a piece of his coffin? They found writings that refer to his marriage.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/u...refers-to-jesus-wife.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

OH, Yeah.. First Jesus did not have a coffin. He arose from his TOMB! Second It is entirely possible that he was married.Moses was Married yet look at what he did. OH, yeah, this was written nearly 400 hundred years after Jesus was born (4th century),,, Reminds me of the Koran, (600 years AD).. Not very credible.

and then this, for the very article you posted. "Dr. King She repeatedly cautioned that this fragment should not be taken as proof that Jesus, the historical person, was actually married. The text was probably written centuries after Jesus lived, and all other early, historically reliable Christian literature is silent on the question, she said. "

How do I know if this is real or not?
I'm only saying it's not THAT much to accept that a human man named Jesus existed in the time he was supposed to exist and might have even preached the Gospel and been a rabbi (yes, a rabbi) as has long been supposed. It seems to me fruitless to deny it, and instead to assert that the entire story is completely conjured up, and does not cause any compromise of principals to at least accept the possibility of a human man, teacher, rabbi, and spiritual leader called Jesus.

Your getting closer. If you can see him as all these, then why can you not see him a the son of God? Is there as much a possibility as any of the others. No of course if he was the son of God, he was all of the above.
 

Bladerunner

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I expect you are referring to what was supposed to be a piece of his brother's coffin. That proved to be a hoax. When the same archaeologist came up with two "pieces of evidence" for the existence of Jesus it was considered an extraordinary coincidence so others looked a bit harder at both.



No provenance = No credibility. Most likely another hoax. There have been many hoaxes over a very long time, the most famous being the Shroud of Turin.

Moreover it is claimed that it was written in the fourth century. Hence it is not contemporary reference but just another reporting about the beliefs of Christians.

I doubt that it is a coincidence that the first woman to hold the academic position turns up with "evidence" to show that Jesus included female disciples.

As is evident in BladeRunner's posts, believers set a very low bar to what they consider as "proof".

Careful now! I am just as much a scientist are you are? How much crow are you willing to consume when of course science proves there is a God!

Personally, don't think you can eat that much? lol
 

ConnorGiles

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Yes he (Jesus) will appear near the end of revelations. However, by then you will have had to make a decision to acquire the mark or not to. Choose wisely my friend!

So basically "Jesus" shall appear to me at the end of revelations?

when is this so called end of revelations?

Because as far as i'm concerned at this moment in time there are many people on this earth called jesus as it is a name, that said i do not debate there was a man named jesus - as there are many named jesus.

End game , as said in previous posts if he revealed himself to me and proved himself as almighty then it would be a different matter as he has then proven the disbelief of atheism to me.

But until that time comes that he does appear himself to me - im sorry but i will not believe in something that has a chance of being made up?

because really all religion is going on is peoples words spoke about god and jesus.

Which as i think many people have said in these posts can be subject to "Chinese Whispers" over countless generations.

which could exaggerate what actually happened greatly.

Id like to think of myself as a Atheist until proved otherwise :)
 

ConnorGiles

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Let me help you out here. Evolution is NOT real regardless of what our scientist say. Rem, Golbal warming. well now it is hiding in the ocean,. OH, MY

http://www.ucg.org/science/prove-evolution-false-even-without-bible-0/

Take note this is my opinion not factual evidence

Well i have just read that article and it does raise some quite strong and interesting points .

But to say "Evolution is NOT real regardless of what our scientist say" is a very strong statement - I do not disagree with you on the fact in this article that organisms and things such as tree's are very complex but it does not put in big letters to me Must Be God to me all that says is that things in life are getting more and more complex in which we are striving to understand why it does this.

In regards to the Bee and the Flower statement, who said it was just bee's pollinating flowers before they were evolved. there may have been many other bugs before hand which sustained plants the way that bee's do in the current day.

you did throw a very interesting article about disproving evolution to me but in a matter of fact all it did was not disprove evolution but bring forth the many holes in the theory of evolution, to say evolution is NOT real is a bit far fetched because it has not officially been dis-proved to date.

There are many Gargantuan holes in the theory of evolution but thats because evolutionists are 24/7 hard at work trying to understand how it happened and why it happened which will take a considerable amount more time than religion filling all of the gargantuan holes it would also have with the phrase "God made it" which then automatically fills that hole with a large dosage of faith - (which i am not swayed to believe that evolutionists don't require as much if not more faith).

I'm interested in hearing your opinions Bladerunner as i am very intrigued by these sorts of subjects and like to hear both sides of a debate before swaying my opinion. :p
 

Brianwarnock

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If everything was created according to a plan then what sort of sick mind creates parasites like the Tarantular Wasp.

Great film Alien.

Brian
 

ConnorGiles

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If everything was created according to a plan then what sort of sick mind creates parasites like the Tarantular Wasp.

Great film Alien.

Brian

I think this picture best explains your situation Brian!

(Thats if obviously he exists)
 

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Galaxiom

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Careful now! I am just as much a scientist are you are?

No way. I have seen what you consider as evidence. You try to tell us that Evolution is wrong yet it is supported by a vast amount of evidence which you simply choose to ignore.

How much crow are you willing to consume when of course science proves there is a God!

Everything used to be attributed to God's will. Science has shown that no god is required for things to happen in this Universe to make it just what it is today. There is nothing left for a god to do.

As I have said many times before, the theist proposition is that the Universe began with the most complex thing that has ever existed and does not provide an explanation for what made it.

Science shows use how the Universe became what it is, having started from the simplest beginning possible, a single pixel intense pure energy. Not the slightest intelligent intervention is required.

Any objective assessment can only conclude that science has the better proposition. Your prejudice towards the myths indoctrinated into you as a child blind you to the reality.
 

Bladerunner

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I've already mentioned this but it has had no effect, I think that it may be a ploy to dissuade people from arguing with him.

He is not the only poster who ignores requests to post normally, 50 to 1 places the quote after the reply.

Brian

would you two super people then please let me know what is acceptable. I have tried it several ways and none of them are acceptable. This is a third way. Maybe it will satisfy your sensibilities. Far be from me to get in the way of progress?
 

Rabbie

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Let me help you out here. Evolution is NOT real regardless of what our scientist say. Rem, Golbal warming. well now it is hiding in the ocean,. OH, MY

http://www.ucg.org/science/prove-evolution-false-even-without-bible-0/

Just read the article in your link and did not think it was valid.

While I agree there may not be evidence for the complete theory of evolution there is no evidence that disproves evolution.

Of course Evolution itself does not contradict the existence of a god/creator but it does suggest that there is no need of that hypothesis.
 

spikepl

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Mr. God is welcome to add to this discussion.

Please don't play ostrich and do break in and lead the potentially stray sheep back to the fold at anytime. Even on Sundays.
 

Galaxiom

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I have read the article linked by Blade. It is the same old rubbish that has been debunked over and over again.

F for Fossils. Firstly, Trilobites are not the oldest fossils. That honour goes to Stromatolites which date back to 3.5 billion years ago. There are also fossils of single celled organisms of similar age.

Fossilisation is rare especially prior to the evolution of hard body parts. As such we only begin to see abundant fossils in the Cambrian era where complex organisms first evolved.

A for Assumption. Yes there are many assumptions in science. They are acknowledged as such by scientists who then go looking for evidence to support the hypothesis. Over and over again this evidence has been found.

Creation relies utterly entirely on assumptions, none of which have ever been corroborated. The biggest assumption is that a God gave the stories to the men who recorded it in the Bible. There is no evidence to show that what was written was any more than what was in the minds of those men.

Indeed there is plenty of evidence showing that the Biblical account of Creation is wrong.

L is for Life. There are strong candidates for abiogenesis particularly the serpentisation of minerals in hydrothermal vents on the ocean floor. The fundamental process in this reaction is identical to the energy transactions that are the basis of every know life form. The minerals produced form tiny pockets similar in size to bacteria.

S is for Symbiosis. This argument is ridiculous. It ignores that there are many mechanism for fertilisation of flowers besides insects.

E is for Engineering. If life is engineered then God was a very poor engineer. For example the photosensitive layer in chordate eye is obscured by the blood supply layer. In fact any analysis of the supposed "engineering" supports the hypothesis that the development of new features was indeed random.
 

Brianwarnock

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would you two super people then please let me know what is acceptable. I have tried it several ways and none of them are acceptable. This is a third way. Maybe it will satisfy your sensibilities. Far be from me to get in the way of progress?

Hardly super just normal guys who post like everybody else, just look at Galaxiom's post where the quoted text appears separately from the responses.

Brian
 

Galaxiom

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It is actually dead simple. The quoted sections start with "quote" inside square brackets and end with "/quote" inside square brackets. The syntax is not unlike XML.

Same with "code".

It isn't evolutionary science.:rolleyes:
 

Rabbie

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Then the opposite must be true, nature is a very poor engineer also. How did it manage to create the most complex organ in the known universe, the human brain? It evolved like the "chordate eye"?
Nobody has claimed that Nature is a brilliant engineer. How could it be when it develops things by selecting small changes which are improvements even if this leads to blind alleys. It does not have a good mechanism for back tracking if it has taken a wrong turning.

I would recommend you read "Climbing Mount Improbable" by Richard Dawkins. It will give you a factual account of how the process works.

To repeat my previous point Evolution is not an Atheist theory. Many Christians support it.
 

aziz rasul

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AT the time of Adam and Eve, there was no religion. Only in later chapters revealed that God adopted the Israelite people as his chosen thus Judaism. Christianity was not around until Jesus sent his apostles to the population.

sorry to bust your bubble

At the time of Adam and Huwwa (peace be upon them), there was a religion, it was called Islam. Adam (peace be upon him) was the first homosapien man and was the first Muslim and the first Prophet of Islam. The only religion that God has given to man is Islam. The beliefs that the Messengers Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them) taught was Islam i.e. to accept Him and be obedient to the Creator (knowing that He exists). That is the definition of being a Muslim. A non-believer is one who rejects Him and is therefore disobedient to the Creator (knowing that He exists). Those who are unaware of God will be tested on the Day of Judgement. Those among them who accept God will be successful and those who reject Him will not be.

Surely the (true) religion with Allaah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allaah then surely Allaah is quick in reckoning. Qur’an 3:19

Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists. Qur’an 3:67

And they were not enjoined anything except that they should serve Allaah, being sincere to Him in obedience, upright, and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, and that is the right religion. Qur’an 98:5

Surely Allaah chose Adam and Nuh and the descendants of Ibrahim and the descendants of Imran above the nations. Qur’an 3:33

The very last verse revealed in the Qur’an reiterates that Islam is the way.

This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion.
Qur’an 5:3

An example of a disbeliever is Shaitan (Satan, real name Iblis) who knows that God exists but consciously rejects God and is arrogant and rebellious to God. Many people are presented with the truth but they consciously turn their back to it.

You obviously have not read the Koran or any of the other two books of Islam. It is not only a religion, it is a government and a social mediator (so to speak). To be short it is not a peaceful religion.

Bladerunner you have obviously not read the Qur’an either. What other 2 books of Islam are you referring to? Can you quote a single Qur’anic verse (both in context within the text and in historical context) that indicates that Islam is not a peaceful religion?

They in most cases are very angry and many (not all) of those that are angry become activist with the purpose to force their will upon everyone else and of course destroy Christianity on the way.

We all have a view and we give that view to people. If the Christian belief is correct it cannot be destroyed. The truth will always prevail. The Christian faith was hijacked by the early Christian church and Paul. Jesus (peace be upon them) did not claim to be the Begotten Son of God, this was invented years later. Jesus (peace be upon them) told people to be obedient to the One True God. “Hear O Israel, Your Lord God is One”. How do you force, to use your words, to think differently? When Muslims were being tortured 14 centuries ago to return back to idolatry by the Mushrikeen, the Muslims asked the Messenger (peace be upon him) what will happen to these Muslims who have turned back on their faith. A verse was revealed to show that it is what you believe in, in your mind that will count. Hence you cannot convert anyone to any belief as their thoughts are theirs to think as they wish.

Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allaah, He is the Messiah, son of Maryam; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allaah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allaah, then Allaah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust. Qur’an 5:72

There is no compulsion in religion; truth is henceforth distinct from falsehood; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allaah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allaah is Hearing, Knowing. Qur’an 2:256

Especially in the USA, activist groups are chipping away at the very foundation that made this country what it was just a few years ago. The center of this is the God issue and anything to do with the Christian Religion. (i.e a Cross on Public land).

The foundations that you refer to were created by man, not by God. People can worship whoever they want or follow their own desires as they wish. No constitution can prevent people from thinking and believing what they want in their own minds.

In reality, if you do not believe it is 'no skin off my nose'. I and most Christians will treat you respect, tolerance and will offer you a seat in our house in hopes of getting to 'see the light'. If you are to be accepted in His house, the Burden of choice is on you.

The ‘light’ is Islam, as that is the only belief that God has given us. Anything else will be ‘darkness’. All three main messengers of Islam i.e. Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them) taught the same message. Each of them were given scripture i.e. the Torah (Arabic Taurat), the Injil and the Qur’an respectively giving the same root message of Tauhid i.e. the Oneness of the Creator who has always existed and will always exist. There is no such thing as the Old Testament, it’s called the Torah. The New Testament was written by man and is not from God. That is not to say that it does not contain any truths. Anything in any document that agrees with the contents of the 3 ORIGINAL scriptures is of course acceptable e.g. the virgin birth of Jesus (peace be upon him) in the NT. Unfortunately we no longer have the original Torah, the oldest copy is about 1,500 years old. The Injil was lost soon after the time of Jesus (peace be upon him) so again unfortunately we cannot refer to it. For those proponents who advocate that the Injil and the NT are the one and same are wrong. The TEN commandments (the Hebrew version) and the Qur’an are the only 2 scriptures that remain intact.

And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Maryam, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injil in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil). Qur’an 5:46

Allaah is the guardian of those who believe. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; and (as to) those who disbelieve, their guardians are Shaitans who take them out of the light into the darkness; they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide. Qur’an 2:257

I'm sure this must have been brought up already, but anyway:
Why would a rational person accept, without any doubt, a wildly improbable-to-impossible tale about the origins of life (and I'm talking about Creationism, not evolution), and about the existence of a fantastically powerful super-being who could create the whole universe, that nobody alive has ever seen?
Yes, in biblical times, miracles were a dime a dozen. Seas parting, water from stones, wine from water, miraculous cures with no explanation other than God's will.
But at least for all of recorded history, there is not one single verifiable instance of a miracle, or of the physical appearance of a diety.
Couldn't God (should He actually exist) settle the question once and for all (or at least once a century) by just popping by every now and then in a public place with plenty of witnesses, and just saying, Hi there, well, I'm God, you know. If you don't believe me, you see that boulder over there? Well, poof. Now it's gone. Okay, carry on. See you next century.
I mean after all, it's a lot to ask of anybody, to believe in this with no evidence, for God's Sake!

Do we need to see God to know He exists? If there is evidence of His existence is that not enough? The Creator exists outside His creation, so He cannot appear before us in His Own creation. We would have to go outside the Universe to see Him. Hence He cannot appear before us as you are suggesting. However he has sent Prophets and Messengers over the centuries to give us the message. Is that not enough? Despite that there are still people who do not believe now or at the time that the emissaries of God came. We have the Qur’an, the Word of God with us for 14 centuries. There is plenty of evidence in there if you want it e.g. Qur’an 21:30 (creation of the universe), 21:33 (moon and sun having orbits), 21:104 (end of the universe) etc.

God says in the Qur’an even when evidence is presented before the non-believers they cry out for more, they are not satisfied. There motive is to reject, reject, reject. When they see one proof they want another. Many people are reverting to the faith in which they were born into i.e. Islam. They see the ‘light’ and they accept. There was one person who was not a believer who began to read the Qur’an with the point of view of finding something that would convince him that Islam was wrong. To cut a long story short he read the Qur’an 40 times and eventually accepted Islam and thus became a Muslim. So there are people out there who have accepted just as there are many who reject and want to follow their own desires. After all we are not all going to Heaven.

O children of Adam! if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My communications, then whoever shall guard (against evil) and act aright-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve. Qur’an 7:35

And We do not send messengers but as givers of good news and warning, and those who disbelieve make a false contention that they may render null thereby the truth, and they take My communications and that with which they are warned for a mockery. Qur’an 18:56

Indeed there have come to you clear proofs from your Lord; whoever will therefore see, it is for his own soul and whoever will be blind, it shall be against himself and I am not a keeper over you. Qur’an 6:104
Oh, I keep hearing about this original sin, but why should I be punished for something I didn't do?
…but aren't you saved if you truly repent?

Or are you telling me that you do not need to repent, whatever the definition, you will be saved so long as you profess to believe in Jesus?

You won’t be, we will be punished for what we do or don’t do. In Islam there is no such thing as Huwwa (peace be upon her) being in the wrong alone. Both she and her husband ate from the tree and were equally guilty and both repented to God. There repentance was sincere and was accepted. Women suffer from childbirth because it is a biologically painful experience not because of what Huwwa (peace be upon her) did. All those women who have a caesarean are they cheating the system?

You are saved if you truly repent but in addition accept God. Any sins committed against individuals can only be forgiven by that individual. God can only forgive sins committed against Him. If a person dies rejecting God (knowing He exists) then there is no forgiveness in the Hereafter.

Except those who repent and amend and make manifest (the truth), these it is to whom I turn (mercifully); and I am the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful. Qur’an 2:160

Except those who repent and amend and hold fast to Allaah and are sincere in their religion to Allaah, these are with the believers, and Allaah will grant the believers a mighty reward. Qur’an 4:146

And He it is Who accepts repentance from His servants (Muslims) and pardons the evil deeds and He knows what you do; Qur’an 42:25

Allaah has promised to those who believe and do good deeds (that) they shall have forgiveness and a mighty reward. Qur’an 5:9

One might ask what was God doing for the rest of the 4,500,000,000 years (age of the earth) or 13,800,000,000 years (age of the universe)?

Why is it important to know how God has passed the time since the universe was created by Him? After all, He existed well before the universe was created. What is important is that God has asked us to accept Him and be obedient to Him. That is what we should concentrate on as we will only be successful if we do that in this life and in the Hereafter. After all if we reject Him and disobey Him, we can’t cry about it on the Day of Judgement. We will not have any power to change the judgement.
 

ConnorGiles

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Azis - Prepare yourself for the storm that is the atheists that is coming your way - (Not a threat, just a pre warning of what is to come via other AWFers).

Ill start - your view is very one sided as you are obviously a "My god is the only god" kinda guy so your opinion cannot be validated via evidence due to the common phrase of your kind "God/Allah made it". You speak with so much certainty through a book that was written not by God/allah himself but that of the hands of a man.

Although many of the points i could point out that have already been said ill just end with this. Your trusting in a book - written by a man - believing it is true - This man may have been deluded or any number of mental illnesses bistowed upon him which may have made him hallucinate or who knows maybe even hallucinagens (if thats how its spelled) were used and the proceeds of what was seen or done by the person in question was written down in a handy book called "The Bible/ Qur’an "
 

Brianwarnock

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Azis - Prepare yourself for the storm that is the atheists that is coming your way - (Not a threat, just a pre warning of what is to come via other AWFers).

"

Hi, I know that you are new and are working your way though this thread, so permit me to inform you that Aziz does not need warning, go to post 2679 for his first post, make some strong coffee, and start reading.

Brian
 

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