Are you an atheist? (1 Viewer)

[Frothingslosh]

So when Brian says
Your answer is what "Jesus loves you" "have faith"? The only way to get back to the original sin is through the Old Testament.

My answer is 'Original sin is nonsense created by the Catholic Church in the early Dark Ages in order to cement its hold on power.'

If you think oiginal sin is a thing, however, then you need look no further than Jesus' death on the cross, which, according to the NT, was, in part, to free humanity from said original sin. (Rom 5:12-5:21)

 

[Bladerunner]

My answer is 'Original sin is nonsense created by the Catholic Church in the early Dark Ages in order to cement its hold on power.'

If you think oiginal sin is a thing, however, then you need look no further than Jesus' death on the cross, which, according to the NT, was, in part, to free humanity from said original sin. (Rom 5:12-5:21)

Doggonit even though you have pure evil under your name, you are pretty perceptive. The original sin (Genesis 2:7 thru 3:4) was again in the first 5 chapters. You talk about the churches power. Yet, the Egyptians held the Isralites for 400 years in bondage (slavery). What about Genghis Khan and all the other dictators throughout the ages. I guess they were ok because there was no religion??????????
involved. what about the Islam religion. The Arabs were not exactly friendly to anyone outside their circles. I think you and some others on this thread need to get a new whipping boy!.

 

[Brianwarnock]

?..You talk about the churches power. Yet, the Egyptians held the Isralites for 400 years in bondage (slavery). What about Genghis Khan and all the other dictators throughout the ages. I guess they were ok because there was no religion??????????
involved. what about the Islam religion. The Arabs were not exactly friendly to anyone outside their circles. I think you and some others on this thread need to get a new whipping boy!.

Surely your memory is not that poor that you don't remember Asis getting attacked when he tried to convert us all to Islam , the reason that the Christian religion appears to be the only one facing criticism is that it is the one being defended, quite rightly by those who accept it.
Another point is that one person's evil does not excuse another's.

Brian

 

[Frothingslosh]

Doggonit even though you have pure evil under your name, you are pretty perceptive. The original sin (Genesis 2:7 thru 3:4) was again in the first 5 chapters. You talk about the churches power. Yet, the Egyptians held the Isralites for 400 years in bondage (slavery). What about Genghis Khan and all the other dictators throughout the ages. I guess they were ok because there was no religion??????????
involved. what about the Islam religion. The Arabs were not exactly friendly to anyone outside their circles. I think you and some others on this thread need to get a new whipping boy!.

Glad you like the title. I took it after being accused (in another thread on this very forum) of being a traitor because I favor background checks for weapon purchases, giving women control of their own bodies, and not punishing gay people for the crime of being born. (Edit: Oh, and for stating that it was idiotic to choose to die rather than let a mugger have your wallet.)

I'm not sure what bringing Islam (which doesn't accept the doctrine of original sin) into the discussion has to do with anything other than showing your credentials as yet another Islamaphobe. But to balance, we have the Inquisition burning to death anyone who didn't profess precisely what the Catholic church espoused (along with anyone whose possessions various clergy and nobles desired), the Holocaust, the Kill the Gays bill, many, many assaults on Jerusalem in the Crusades, the Yugoslavian Civil War, the Vatican spreading rumors in Africa that condoms cause AIDS, and the list of atrocities by Christians goes on.

In the real world, the refusal of the idiotic "Sin was impossible until Eve sinned" doctrine (a wonderful example of circular logic) means that responsibility for your own actions rests on YOU, not some mythological ancient ancestor. That doesn't make things like anything listed above 'ok' - it means that the evil men and women choose to do is their own damn fault. It means you need to take responsibility for your own choices, not say 'but a vile, disgusting, evil woman thousands of years ago MADE me do bad things!'

It's really not a difficult concept.

Edit:

You know, I was thinking about this discussion while waiting for a report to run, and I'm curious. Just how precisely did you take 'I don't believe the entire human race is damned by default because Eve ate an apple' and get from it 'Obviously I think that because we're not doomed by Eve's choice of knowledge over ignorance, it follows that every act, no matter how evil, vile, or malicious, is perfectly acceptable.'? In other circles, that's what one might call Insane Troll Logic.

 

[alamnizamani]

Please read Holly Quran message from our creator God through Muhammad Peace be upon him. I have some questions that can you see air, voice, signals, electricity and etc but you believe in these things. If you want to see Allah (God) see the world, see inner of your body. When you die you will see what is reality. Thanks

 

[Bladerunner]

Have tried to post a "Quote" but when I hit the submit button, it tells me I did not have enough characters or words????????????????????????????????????????????????


Later I guess.

 

[Galaxiom]

The quote does not count in the post length. It expects you to be adding something of your own.

However the requirement is not especially long.

 

[Bladerunner]

I hope these characters will let me post this reply?

Glad you like the title. I took it after being accused (in another thread on this very forum) of being a traitor because I favor background checks for weapon purchases, giving women control of their own bodies, and not punishing gay people for the crime of being born. (Edit: Oh, and for stating that it was idiotic to choose to die rather than let a mugger have your wallet.)

I probably had something to do with that but as a rehash. I agree with background checks for weapon purchases?!,,,,,Giving women control of their own bodies as long as they don't kill another human being in the process!!! As far as the gays are concerned, I not sure where the 'punishing ' part comes from.

I'm not sure what bringing Islam (which doesn't accept the doctrine of original sin) into the discussion has to do with anything other than showing your credentials as yet another Islamaphobe. But to balance, we have the Inquisition burning to death anyone who didn't profess precisely what the Catholic church espoused (along with anyone whose possessions various clergy and nobles desired), the Holocaust, the Kill the Gays bill, many, many assaults on Jerusalem in the Crusades, the Yugoslavian Civil War, the Vatican spreading rumors in Africa that condoms cause AIDS, and the list of atrocities by Christians goes on.

Islamaphobe: Hall yes,, and your not?! Why Not?,,,,, they want to kill you too! er that is if you are not Muslim. "The Kill the Gays BILL"???????have not heard about that one.

In the real world, the refusal of the idiotic "Sin was impossible until Eve sinned" doctrine (a wonderful example of circular logic) means that responsibility for your own actions rests on YOU, not some mythological ancient ancestor. That doesn't make things like anything listed above 'ok' - it means that the evil men and women choose to do is their own damn fault. It means you need to take responsibility for your own choices, not say 'but a vile, disgusting, evil woman thousands of years ago MADE me do bad things!'

It's really not a difficult concept.

"Sin was impossible until Eve sinned" the bible states this? Yes and when Jesus died on Cross, he washed away those sins. Now like you say it is everybody unto himself... Up until she (EVE) ate the forbidden fruit, they (Adam) were without sin. Also because of this, the Garden of Eden was taken away from them and anyone else. But that was then, so we have to live with the fact that we are not sin free that is because of EVE.

Edit:

You know, I was thinking about this discussion while waiting for a report to run, and I'm curious. Just how precisely did you take 'I don't believe the entire human race is damned by default because Eve ate an apple' and get from it 'Obviously I think that because we're not doomed by Eve's choice of knowledge over ignorance, it follows that every act, no matter how evil, vile, or malicious, is perfectly acceptable.'? In other circles, that's what one might call Insane Troll Logic.

 

[Bladerunner]

Yeah, I placed all within a box and it cannot count them there. No Problem,,, will start making comments outside of the boxes.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Yeah, I placed all within a box and it cannot count them there. No Problem,,, will start making comments outside of the boxes.

I have to work at finding where the quotes end and your comments start.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

Please read Holly Quran message from our creator God through Muhammad Peace be upon him. I have some questions that can you see air, voice, signals, electricity and etc but you believe in these things. ..Thanks

But we can prove that these things exist, or did you not do physics at school?

Brian

 

[Frothingslosh]

"Sin was impossible until Eve sinned" the bible states this? Yes and when Jesus died on Cross, he washed away those sins. Now like you say it is everybody unto himself... Up until she (EVE) ate the forbidden fruit, they (Adam) were without sin. Also because of this, the Garden of Eden was taken away from them and anyone else. But that was then, so we have to live with the fact that we are not sin free that is because of EVE.

To tighten the above up:

"Yes, sin was impossible until a woman sinned. Now we simply have to accept that all of our faults and the reason we don't live in paradise are both entirely because of women."

Translation: "I will not accept that I am responsible for any evil I do because WOMEN."

Also, painting all Muslims as evil because of the actions of Islamic extremists is just as idiotic as painting all Christians as evil because of the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church and the folks who tortured Matthew Shepard to death. When you get right down to it, the history of Europe and European colonialism is nothing but greed, violence, hate, intolerence, and bloodshed on an unimaginable scale, largely for religious reasons. If you go by your own logic ("some muslims kill people, so they're all evil!"), that means that Christianity must be the greatest threat ever to have faced humanity.

Even if we accept the 'official' stance that original sin existed but was wiped away by the crucifixion, we're left staring at the fact that we are STILL responsible for our own actions, regardless of whether we are to be held to blame for the actions of a single woman thousands of years ago. The world doesn't make people do evil. A distant, likley mythical 'anscestor' doesn't make you do evil. YOU make you do evil.

2 Corinthians 5:10:

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

Also, directly bearing on 'We are sinners because EVE!!!one!11!ONE!':
Ezekial 18:20

The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

 

[Frothingslosh]

But we can prove that these things exist, or did you not do physics at school?

Brian

Judging by the way his post was written, I would guess not.

 

[dan-cat]

In reality, if you do not believe it is 'no skin off my nose'.

I wonder, do you see any irony in this statement?

 

[Bladerunner]

:"Yes, sin was impossible until a woman sinned. Now we simply have to accept that all of our faults and the reason we don't live in paradise are both entirely because of women."
Translation: "I will not accept that I am responsible for any evil I do because WOMEN."

Not WomEn---one Woman---and of course Satan.

Also, painting all Muslims as evil because of the actions of Islamic extremists is just as idiotic as painting all Christians as evil because of the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church and the folks who tortured Matthew Shepard to death. When you get right down to it, the history of Europe and European colonialism is nothing but greed, violence, hate, intolerence, and bloodshed on an unimaginable scale, largely for religious reasons. If you go by your own logic ("some muslims kill people, so they're all evil!"), that means that Christianity must be the greatest threat ever to have faced humanity

You obviously have not read the Koran or any of the other two books of Islam. It is not only a religion, it is a government and a social mediator (so to speak). To be short it is not a peaceful religion. If you are not a Muslim, you must convert, pay taxes as slaves or DIE! Now having said that, I do not believe that all Muslims are extremist however, when the new Caliphate is erected, I believe they will change their minds and follow Mohammed teachings. OH, the teachings of a group of books that were written 600 years after the birth of Christ.

Now where do you see Jesus said anything like that. It is Humans that are causing all of this. It is just easier for you to equate it to Christianity for a fault.

2 Corinthians 5:10:
Quote:
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.
Also, directly bearing on 'We are sinners because EVE!!!one!11!ONE!':

Yes, we are all capable of sin and Yes you are responsible for your sins. When was the last time you saw a child sin? Eventually they will sin but only after we teach them to sin. Can you imagine a place where everyone is as innocent as a child?

Ezekial 18:20
Quote:
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Yes, if the father is a murder, then the son does not have his sin unless he commits murder himself.

Not really sure what your are trying to get at here but Adam & Eve's sin placed upon us all the ability to know sin therefore we have the ability to commit sin.

What you cannot fathom is God created a "Garden of Eden" where there was no sin! When the fruit from the tree of KNOWLEDGE was eaten (By both of them), they were cast out into the cruel, cruel world we now live in some 6,000 -10,000 years later.

 

[Bladerunner]

I wonder, do you see any irony in this statement?

I am from the south,,,, please explain.......

 

[dan-cat]

I am from the south,,,, please explain.......

Is there any way you could see how your statement would feel 'unexpected' to another?

 

[Bladerunner]

Is there any way you could see how your statement would feel 'unexpected' to another?

Boy Howdy: you sure do make it hard on a fellow. I went back and looked everything up. The "Irony of the statement" is that I somewhat preach the word and yet don't care if you are saved? Please feel free to correct if I am wrong.

Well, I do care which is why I keep trying. But lets face it Dan-cat, there are times you can take a horse to water but you cannot make him drink. I have put forth my 100%, now it is your decision which will not affect me or my decision in the end thus ("No Skin off my nose")

 

[Galaxiom]

T. No it's the "Tree of knowledge" that was forbidden. If we were created in God's image why would knowledge be forbidden?

Because knowledge equals power.

The whole point of religion is to move the power away from the person to the religion's oligarchy.

 

[Bladerunner]

The most interesting part about the "Original Sin" to me is: Not that the serpent tempted Eve, or that Eve corrupted Adam. No it's the "Tree of knowledge" that was forbidden. If we were created in God's image why would knowledge be forbidden?

and Satan (the serpent) said unto EVE: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:5

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Genesis 3:22

This what we are told. Keep in mind that this book and 4 other books were given to Moses.