Are you an atheist? (4 Viewers)

[Vassago]

There has been plenty of criticism on Einstein's theory, from proving it wrong to expanding or restructuring it. It is a theory, so of course it can be proven wrong.

Not long ago, we believe it was impossible to travel at the speed of light and especially faster. Now we have theories and have actually tested theories on warp speeds, bending the universe, and particle displacement, effectively teleporting. The future is coming and I believe it won't be long before we really are exploring more of the universe. Not just our solar system and galaxy, but others as well.

 

[Old Man Devin]

There has been plenty of criticism on Einstein's theory, from proving it wrong to expanding or restructuring it. It is a theory, so of course it can be proven wrong.

Not long ago, we believe it was impossible to travel at the speed of light and especially faster. Now we have theories and have actually tested theories on warp speeds, bending the universe, and particle displacement, effectively teleporting. The future is coming and I believe it won't be long before we really are exploring more of the universe. Not just our solar system and galaxy, but others as well.

Just to clarify though, the theory was that you can't travel faster than light 'through space'. The warp technology just changes the distances in space, so although you personally don't travel faster than light, you only travel a small distance and still end up at the distant location. Hence the reduced amount of time required compared to non-warp travel simply makes it 'as if' you travelled faster than light.

Just standing up for Einstein

 

[Rabbie]

Can you expand on that? Someone thought that light could go faster than 186,000?. The would blow Einstein's theory all to pieces.

If it had been correct Einstein would not have developed his theories. The speed of light could not be accurately measured until reliable accurate timepieces had been developed and also a reliable way of measuring very long distances. Once you know the time and the distance then you can calculate speed.

It was once Newtons Laws of Planetary Motion were developed that predictions could be made of when an eclipse of Jupiters moons would occur. There was however a discrepancy between the prediction and the reality. This was explained by initially assuming the speed of light was approx 186,000. This assumption was shown to be correct by observing similar eclipses at different points on Jupiter's orbit when the corrected formula produced predicted results which matched what actually happened.

 

[Rabbie]

Auh, now we down to the gravy and thank you. I do have a question---what do you mean by OT God and NT God?

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

OT God is the God as described in the Old Testament. NT God is the much more kindly one as described in the New Testament

 

[Libre]

Laws of physics are unbreakable, because we have not found a way to break them. The phrase 'Law of Physics' is a human term to refer to these rules that are seemingly embedded into the way the universe works.

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I hope this answers all your questions!

Thank you, Old Man. My questions will never all be answered - but your explanations are logically sound and not overreaching, and pretty much how I already tend to think about it.

Why am I an atheist? A fair question which I will attempt to answer.

I would like to believe in the Christian God. It would give me great comfort if I could believe it were true. It would make a fantastic comfort blanket. I genuinely envy those that have a faith. Unfortunately I do not see any evidence to support that hypothesis. The Bible has many internal contradictions - the main one being the vast difference between the OT God and the NT God but there are many others.

I think it's important in this discussion to differentiate between the concept of a religious or biblical god (whether you call him Ashem, Allah, God, or any of a thousand other names that are written in books) and the concept of a higher intelligence - which could be an alien civilization. Of course the question of what created THEM remains, and will always remain when you talk of a creator. But the question doesn't go away if you go with the BIG BANG either. You're still left with, what was before the BB, and what is outside the universe - even if it is a sphere, etc etc.
But the point I'm making - and made earlier with my post that got us back on this topic and off the Japanese Emperor - is that, there is no necessity to accept the IN THE BEGINNING stuff or anything else in any bible or religion to have a belief in a creator. It is not necessary to assume that he (she, it, etc) looks like us, cares about us, IS actually a single conciousness with motivated behavior - it is only necessary to say that God is SOMETHING of some higher power or intelligence, outside of what science can describe and predict.

 

[Bladerunner]

There has been plenty of criticism on Einstein's theory, from proving it wrong to expanding or restructuring it. It is a theory, so of course it can be proven wrong.

Not long ago, we believe it was impossible to travel at the speed of light and especially faster. Now we have theories and have actually tested theories on warp speeds, bending the universe, and particle displacement, effectively teleporting. The future is coming and I believe it won't be long before we really are exploring more of the universe. Not just our solar system and galaxy, but others as well.

Exciting is it not? But when we get there we will find that God has already been there!


Have a Nice Day:>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

Just to clarify though, the theory was that you can't travel faster than light 'through space'. The warp technology just changes the distances in space, so although you personally don't travel faster than light, you only travel a small distance and still end up at the distant location. Hence the reduced amount of time required compared to non-warp travel simply makes it 'as if' you travelled faster than light.

Just standing up for Einstein

Would not a worm-hole accomplish the same thing?

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Vassago]

The other theory is on instant communication, also something needing to travel, is that electrons in atoms effectively can send information faster than the speed of light. Unfortunately, the information is "useless" information, so not really tangible. We can't send meaningful communication in this manner.

 

[Mihail]

Thank you, Old Man. My questions will never all be answered - but your explanations are logically sound and not overreaching, and pretty much how I already tend to think about it.

I think it's important in this discussion to differentiate between the concept of a religious or biblical god (whether you call him Ashem, Allah, God, or any of a thousand other names that are written in books) and the concept of a higher intelligence - which could be an alien civilization. Of course the question of what created THEM remains, and will always remain when you talk of a creator. But the question doesn't go away if you go with the BIG BANG either. You're still left with, what was before the BB, and what is outside the universe - even if it is a sphere, etc etc.
But the point I'm making - and made earlier with my post that got us back on this topic and off the Japanese Emperor - is that, there is no necessity to accept the IN THE BEGINNING stuff or anything else in any bible or religion to have a belief in a creator. It is not necessary to assume that he (she, it, etc) looks like us, cares about us, IS actually a single conciousness with motivated behavior - it is only necessary to say that God is SOMETHING of some higher power or intelligence, outside of what science can describe and predict.

Returning to the probabilities, this is not impossible. p>0 (my opinion)
So this can be the truth. Just now this is a theory.

Let's say that this theory will be verified.
Will make me a theist ?
No or... yes.
NO until I have the proof that that "being" created all things from nothing.
YES after that AND after I'll have one more answer: Who created the Creator.
As usually, this end up with a loop.

Are we, the humans, gods because we can manipulate the DNA in order to create a clone ? I don't think so.
Will become gods if we'll travel to other planet and we'll carry a virus with us just because that virus we'll be, after millions years, the start point for intelligent species ? Again, I don't think so.

An atheist is, in my opinion, a person that think that the Bible is nothing more than a collection of stories with no meaning.
A person that don't believe that a super intelligence created so poorly book
A person that can't understand WHY this super power, super inteligence, super, super, super..., named God, need songs every Sunday, "give his child in order to be killed in order to absolve us" in order to... what is next ?

This is, in my understanding, an Atheist.

I have no reason to argue against this:

God is SOMETHING of some higher power or intelligence, outside of what science can describe and predict.

While the God, in your opinion, is the sum of all we don't know, I can argue that MY God is a lot bigger and powerful than yours, than Galaxiom's god or than the Old Man Devil's god.

 

[Galaxiom]

There has been plenty of criticism on Einstein's theory, from proving it wrong to expanding or restructuring it. It is a theory, so of course it can be proven wrong.

Plenty of criticism for sure but none has succeeded in even scratching it let alone breaking it.

Not long ago, we believe it was impossible to travel at the speed of light and especially faster. Now we have theories and have actually tested theories on warp speeds, bending the universe, and particle displacement, effectively teleporting.

You want to link some evidence for this? We know that gravity bends the universe. Einstein said it would in General Relativity. Warp speed is from Star Trek.

Quantum teleportation does not involve anything moving faster than light. What is teleported is the quantum state of entangled Quantum objects that have been separated.

Before anyone suggests it, science does not have any problem with time travel. It just needs the energy released in a supernova applied several times a second.

The future is coming and I believe it won't be long before we really are exploring more of the universe. Not just our solar system and galaxy, but others as well.

It would already be possible with the right spacecraft. It would require fuels that were far more energetic per unit mass. By travelling fast enough the traveler would age so slowly that other stars could be reached. However there is no going home because by the time you got back the Sun (which continued to age at the usual rate) would be long gone.

 

[Libre]

Plenty of criticism for sure but none has succeeded in even scratching it let alone breaking it.

The old guy with the tangle of hair really was something now, wasn't he?
Somewhere, in an alternate universe, Galileo, Newton, and Einstein are all in a room together, having a conversation. If we could only listen in.

Before anyone suggests it, science does not have any problem with time travel. It just needs the energy released in a supernova applied several times a second.

Is that time travel in either direction - i.e. the past or the future? Or just the past. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around traveling to the future - because it hasn't happend yet. Traveling to the past is a little easier to conceive - just travel faster than light (I hate when people say "travel faster than the speed of light" because speed is a rate and does not in itself travel at all) and you overtake the newer light, and reach the older light - so to speak - and travel back in time. Right Galaxiom? (If I'm being an idiot here, please go easy on me)
Of course, one of Einstein's fundamentals is that nothing could exceed light speed. So there's that problem.

It would already be possible with the right spacecraft. It would require fuels that were far more energetic per unit mass. By travelling fast enough the traveler would age so slowly that other stars could be reached. However there is no going home because by the time you got back the Sun (which continued to age at the usual rate) would be long gone.

What about a low energy propulsion system but one that was so efficient and robust that it could keep accelerating - let's say at .5G, continuously for a year or a decade? No need to burst out of the gate like a thoroughbread is there? Slow and steady acceleration and eventually you are traveling faster than light - if that isn't impossible as I commented above.

 

[Rabbie]

What about a low energy propulsion system but one that was so efficient and robust that it could keep accelerating - let's say at .5G, continuously for a year or a decade? No need to burst out of the gate like a thoroughbread is there? Slow and steady acceleration and eventually you are traveling faster than light - if that isn't impossible as I commented above.

A nice thought but if you knew your Einstein you would know that your mass increases as you approach the speed of light so your rate of acceleration slows down so you never actually reach the speed of light

 

[Libre]

A nice thought but if you knew your Einstein you would know that your mass increases as you approach the speed of light so your rate of acceleration slows down so you never actually reach the speed of light

Well, .90c would be pretty fast enough to get around the block, anyway.

 

[Old Man Devin]

Would not a worm-hole accomplish the same thing?

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

Yes it would! But I don't think we know how to create wormholes, whereas creating warped space is known to be possible in theory, and design for machines to do it already exist, they are just impossible to build as they need materials that do not occur naturally ("exotic elements" I think they are called, substances that can exist in principle but don't seem to actually exist as far as we can tell!).

 

[Old Man Devin]

You want to link some evidence for this? We know that gravity bends the universe. Einstein said it would in General Relativity. Warp speed is from Star Trek.

There is an actual NASA project researching a genuine warping engine. I have heard reports of it a few times in the last few years, and I believe the most recent development was a design that didn't require a massive amount of energy, making it actually possible to run.

Link related

The big problem remains though: the whole device is made of "exotic" materials that don't appear exist!

 

[Galaxiom]

The old guy with the tangle of hair really was something now, wasn't he?

While the iconic depiction of Einstein is "the old guy with the tangle of hair", like most physicists, he did his best work in his twenties. Special Relativity was released when he was 25 while General Relativity was published when he was 35 years old. In his later career he didn't contribute much at all despite his effort.

Oddly he never received a Nobel Prize for Relativity. His Nobel Prize was awarded for work in the photoelectric effect. This must surely be the greatest oversight in the history of the prize. No other part of science has ever been so fundamentally turned on its head by a single person as what Albert did to mechanics.

Somewhere, in an alternate universe, Galileo, Newton, and Einstein are all in a room together, having a conversation.

Actually they are members of this forum in another universe and the conversation would be quite familiar.

I doubt that Galileo would have a lot of time for the Church and it seems likely that Newton was autistic. In any case Isaac wrote far more about god than he wrote about light or gravity.

Albert would be more likely to have gravitated to Maxwell. It has always bewildered me that Maxwell never became a household name (ignoring Maxwell Smart of course). What he did with Electromagnetism paved the way for Einstein. Maxwell was a hero to Einstein. He said so.

Indeed Einstein had photographs of Newton and Maxwell prominently displayed in his office.

Is that time travel in either direction - i.e. the past or the future? Or just the past. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around traveling to the future - because it hasn't happend yet. Traveling to the past is a little easier to conceive

Ironically it is the other way around. Aside from the fact that we are constantly travelling forward in time, it is actually much more logical to travel even faster forwards than backwards at all.

All one needs to do to travel forwards in time is to slow the traveller's local time. This is easy. Just move through space and the speed through time is automatically reduced. Of course one need to move very fast to have any appreciable effect. Wait for the rest of the Universe to pass by and there you are in the future.

I can't grasp how one could move backwards in time. It is done and gone.

Would you believe that serious scientists are probing the possibility that the future can influence the past? Possibilities for this are not entirely ruled out by Quantum Mechanics. !!!!!!!! Seriously !!!!!!!!

you overtake the newer light, and reach the older light - so to speak - and travel back in time.

That isn't really the issue. With the vast distance of Space the whole question of what simultaneous means becomes shadowed.

What about a low energy propulsion system but one that was so efficient and robust that it could keep accelerating - let's say at .5G, continuously for a year or a decade? No need to burst out of the gate like a thoroughbread is there?

Yes this is plausible. With enough speed the traveller experiences a much slower time allowing several light years to be covered a lifetime. However the acceleration required to reach the speed required for intergalactic travel in a lifetime would kill a human.

And remember, even if the traveller could take the acceleration, there is no going back to tell about it because billions of years would have passed on Earth.

The Milky Way is unimaginably large. The Universe much more so and yet still we try to look beyond. Science confirms there is no way of travelling any way near such distances for anything possessing a non-zero rest mass.

Earth is it for eternity. We should be taking better care of it.

 

[Galaxiom]

There is an actual NASA project researching a genuine warping engine. I have heard reports of it a few times in the last few years, and I believe the most recent development was a design that didn't require a massive amount of energy, making it actually possible to run.

Link related

The big problem remains though: the whole device is made of "exotic" materials that don't appear exist!

Experience with Quantum has shown that poking at the fringes can have big payoffs.This guy is paid to do that research. Good luck to him but I bet he has nothing yet that would breach what we already know. If he did it would be huge news.

As far as we know, warping space requires vast energy.

 

[Brianwarnock]

OT God is the God as described in the Old Testament. NT God is the much more kindly one as described in the New Testament

As I understand it OT is pre Jesus and NT is post, if there is a contradiction one dismisses the OT. Version.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

If one is away from this thread for a couple of days it takes a effort to catch up and there are posts that one wants to reply to that are so far past that it would break the flow.

I am too ignorant to enter the current scientific discussion so will have to just be an observer for a while.

Brian

 

[Libre]

While the iconic depiction of Einstein is "the old guy with the tangle of hair", like most physicists, he did his best work in his twenties. Special Relativity was released when he was 25 while General Relativity was published when he was 35 years old. In his later career he didn't contribute much at all despite his effort.

Oddly he never received a Nobel Prize for Relativity. His Nobel Prize was awarded for work in the photoelectric effect. This must surely be the greatest oversight in the history of the prize. No other part of science has ever been so fundamentally turned on its head by a single person as what Albert did to mechanics.

Yes, quite true, with the possible exception of Tesla, who was definitely shortchanged, and many of his contributions were credited to others who reaped the financial rewards (eg: radio contolled vehicles, x-rays, the wireless radio). The history books are being rewritten (and patents owned by others for Tesla's work have been cancelled) as Tesla's contributions are becomming more well known. In addition to his uncredited work, there are also the work he did that WAS known (AC power, the fluorescent light, the 3 phase induction motor). He HAD to be one of the greatest brains ever - and a PRACTICAL one at that - he built stuff and his stuff WORKED. THe industrial rev would have taken quite a different turn had not Tesla been Tesla. He powered the first ever electrically powered world's fair. He (and George Westinghouse, his financial backer) managed to beat out the fantastically influential T.A. Edison an J.P. Morgan (DC Power junkies) to get the Niagara power contract - the first ever large scale electrical generating plant (AC of course).

Ironically it is the other way around. Aside from the fact that we are constantly travelling forward in time, it is actually much more logical to travel even faster forwards than backwards at all.

All one needs to do to travel forwards in time is to slow the traveller's local time. This is easy. Just move through space and the speed through time is automatically reduced. Of course one need to move very fast to have any appreciable effect. Wait for the rest of the Universe to pass by and there you are in the future.

I can't grasp how one could move backwards in time. It is done and gone.

I don't dispute - but it is easy for me to imagine Einsteins "thought experiment" of a clock tower in a town square, from which you are moving away at the speed of light. The clock hands do not move, since you are abreast with the light moving away from the same clock. If you exceeded light speed, the clock hands would move backward. In the same way, the light we see from the stars is thousands of years old, and the stars we are seeing may not exist today. I may not be capturing all this in the way a physicist might - but in these terms it is simple enough for me to grasp.