Attack on Israel (5 Viewers)

The rightful heir to Abraham cannot be resolved, so here we are.
But only ONE party is fighting for control. The other party is willing, if allowed, to live in peace. And besides, I don't think the Arabs consider themselves a lost tribe of Israel. They consider themselves to be the masters of the universe and the Qua'ran tells them that they must conquer or kill anyone they cannot convert.
 
But only ONE party is fighting for control. The other party is willing, if allowed, to live in peace. And besides, I don't think the Arabs consider themselves a lost tribe of Israel. They consider themselves to be the masters of the universe and the Qua'ran tells them that they must conquer or kill anyone they cannot convert.
Sorry, I do not share your "Israel good, Arabs bad" outlook. The rest of my family does...makes conversation in my house REAL interesting at times.

I've never read the Bible nor the Qua'ran, so I cannot speak to what either one of them quotes - nor do I care - and that, they are fond of telling me, is part of the problem.

What I DO know is that this mess is here to stay no matter WHO is right which is why I do not engage in debate over it.
 
Sorry, I do not share your "Israel good, Arabs bad" outlook.
Then you have no knowledge of the history of the area and probably shouldn't comment. Israel is not the aggressor in this war of genocide. Israel does NOT target civilians regardless of what the NYT tells you. In fact Israel warns civilians of upcoming attacks and Hamas keeps the civilians from evacuating the area because they WANT civilian causalities so the antisemites have something to shout about. Therefore, there is no way to avoid killing/injuring civilians.

Israel is certainly not perfect but they are under constant bombardment by missiles from Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis - all funded by the US and Iran. That's right, we fund both sides of this war. In fact, we are so fud up, we fund both sides of most wars. But in this case, the mistles are always targeting soft, civilian targets. In Israel every home has a bomb shelter. Try living like that. Hamas does not target military installations because they can't beat the IDF. Their only chance is to convince people like you to force Israel into another fruitless peace that will be broken as soon as Hamas rearms.

The Hamas charter includes a promise to kill all the Jews. This war will not ever end until Hamas is completely destroyed and the Palestinians are willing to live in peace. But the Palestinians are raised from birth to hate Jews with all their being and so the Palestinians will never work with Israel to bring down Hamas so the Palestinians will all die for the cause as well. What rational people would teach their children to count by counting dead Jews? The Palestinian hatred of the Jews is totally irrational. And well meaning people can't see through the fog the media throws up trying to blame Israel for the whole mess. "Palestine" has been free since 2004 and none of the dumbos of gays for Palestine or any other supporters don't even know that. The "gays for Palestine" should take a trip to Gaza and see for themselves what is going on. Of course, they may be thrown off roofs simply for being gay but hey, they'll know the facts.
 
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Then you have no knowledge of the history of the area and probably shouldn't comment.
Before assuming I don’t know history, understand that I’ve served on guard duty in the region and seen both sides up close — their strengths, their flaws, and the human realities on the ground. Experience, not ideology, shapes my perspective.

Framing this conflict as simply “Israel defending itself from irrational Jew-hating Arabs” is an oversimplification. It ignores decades of occupation, displacement, and political choices that fuel resentment. Reducing Palestinians to people “raised to hate” strips them of humanity and turns a deeply complex struggle into a caricature.

Yes, Hamas commits terrorism and atrocities — that’s undeniable. But Israeli actions also kill civilians, and warnings before bombings don’t absolve responsibility. Collateral damage is still death — children, families, innocents. Military might alone cannot solve a political and humanitarian crisis.

No peace deal has lasted, but that’s not solely Palestinian rejection. Israeli policies — settlements, occupation, and denied rights — matter too. Pretending this is one-sided only guarantees more bloodshed.

I refuse to accept the narrative that one people’s lives matter less than another’s. If peace is ever possible, it will come from understanding, not demonization. Experience teaches more than ideology ever will.
 
But WHO causes the strife? Who is the attacker? Who is the party that has in its written constitution - KILL ALL THE JEWS?
On that I agree with you - it's generally not Israel. We agree on large swaths of this issue, just not the exact actions the Israelis have taken in this recent war.
 
Before assuming I don’t know history, understand that I’ve served on guard duty in the region and seen both sides up close — their strengths, their flaws, and the human realities on the ground. Experience, not ideology, shapes my perspective.

Framing this conflict as simply “Israel defending itself from irrational Jew-hating Arabs” is an oversimplification. It ignores decades of occupation, displacement, and political choices that fuel resentment. Reducing Palestinians to people “raised to hate” strips them of humanity and turns a deeply complex struggle into a caricature.

Yes, Hamas commits terrorism and atrocities — that’s undeniable. But Israeli actions also kill civilians, and warnings before bombings don’t absolve responsibility. Collateral damage is still death — children, families, innocents. Military might alone cannot solve a political and humanitarian crisis.

No peace deal has lasted, but that’s not solely Palestinian rejection. Israeli policies — settlements, occupation, and denied rights — matter too. Pretending this is one-sided only guarantees more bloodshed.

I refuse to accept the narrative that one people’s lives matter less than another’s. If peace is ever possible, it will come from understanding, not demonization. Experience teaches more than ideology ever will.
Well said! There are LOTS of credible stories, too, of Israeli settlers beating/killing Palestinian civilians with total and complete impunity. stuff like that shows Israel is not just 100% innocent in the deal - they've done wrong, too
 
It ignores decades of occupation, displacement, and political choices that fuel resentment.
See, there's where the history comes into play. In 1948, the British separated the Palestinian Mandate into two (three physical) parts when they withdrew. The Arabs totally refused to any division of land where the Jews got a square inch so the British gave Gaza and Samaria and Judea to the Arabs and the rest of the remaining territory to the Jews. That was when the first invasion came. The very next day after Israel declared their independence, Israel invaded and took Gaza, Jordan invaded and took Samaria and Judea. Israel defended itself but not the Arab territories and so the Arabs withdrew and Palestine died at the hands of its Arab neighbors. That is who the Palestinians should hate. Skip a bunch of intifadas and small wars up to 1967. Six Arab nations formed up on the border of Israel prepared to invade. Israel struck first. This was the 6-day war. During that war, Israel occupied Gaza and the Sinai all the way to the Suez canal. They took Samaria and Judea and the Golan Heights. And since they were not the aggressors, THEY KEPT THE OCCUPIED territories and proceeded to integrate them into Israel proper. Were they supposed to give the occupied territory back? I don't think so. That isn't the way war works. To the victor go the spoils. Try to make Russia give Crimea back to Ukraine even though the Russians were wrong to take it. Israel was not in the wrong here or maybe you think she was. Eventually in the late 80's, Israel relented and gave the Sinai back to Egypt. It's all desert anyway. Israel tried very hard to integrate the Palestinians but they flatly refused. They still thought they got the raw end of the deal from 1948. So they fought the Jews tooth and nail and finally in ~2004, Israel made all its people abandon their settlements and businesses and leave Gaza. They even took the dead from the cemetaries because they knew the Muslims would desecrate the graves. So, I remind the uneducated, Gaza has been free for more than 20 years and what have they done? Did they make Gaza into a Singapore like "free city"? No, they took every single of penny of aid they could guilt out of the rest of the world and bought bomb to drop on civilian targets in Israel.

Does that fill in some of the gaps?

The "Palestinians" have lost "Palestine" twice in 75 years. Who caused that and why does anyone think they should get a third shot?
 
Well said! There are LOTS of credible stories, too, of Israeli settlers beating/killing Palestinian civilians with total and complete impunity. stuff like that shows Israel is not just 100% innocent in the deal - they've done wrong, too
Thanks Isaac, knowing your devotion to Christianity I understand how unpopular your statement could be in the circles I assume you are a part of.

Truth be told, I am inclined to side with Israel when I hear about what is going on over there, but I have to remind myself of the sources I am getting this from. Even though is may be correct, I am only getting one side.
 
See, there's where the history comes into play.
Look, I get the history you’re laying out — Israel’s had attacks and real security threats from day one. Nobody’s denying that. But saying Palestinians “lost twice, so tough luck” ignores decades of occupation, displacement, and blockades that make everyday life a fight just to survive. You can’t expect Gaza to be a “Singapore” when they’re living under restrictions, bombings, and economic strangulation. That’s not failing; that’s being trapped.

History is written by the victors, and the way you’re telling it makes it sound like Israel’s never done anything wrong. Blaming Palestinians for everything oversimplifies the reality — people on both sides have made mistakes, committed atrocities, and suffered. Dismissing all Palestinian grievances doesn’t make them go away; it just keeps the conflict alive.

I’m not excusing Hamas or terrorism — they’re real and terrible. But pretending the problem is one-sided is just propaganda. If peace ever comes, it won’t come from declaring a winner or counting who “lost” what in 1948 or 1967. It’ll come from seeing the whole story, acknowledging the human costs, and treating people like people, not pawns in someone else’s history lesson.
 
Well said! There are LOTS of credible stories, too, of Israeli settlers beating/killing Palestinian civilians with total and complete impunity. stuff like that shows Israel is not just 100% innocent in the deal - they've done wrong, too
You are always willing to believe the worst of Israel just as you are always willing to believe the worst of Trump. I'm not saying that there are not bad individuals. The very important point you are missing is that it is the charter of Hamas to KILL ALL the JEWS. Israel has no such charter. In fact as you can see, Israel tries its best to protect the civilians who live in Gaza.

Israel has been trying for 75+ years to live in peace with its Arab neighbors and yet they have been attached by those neighbors 20+ times and some are considered full blown wars like the 6-day war in 1967.

If you ask the Arabs who stayed in Israel rather than abandoning their homes and businesses in 1948 if they would prefer to live in an Arab country, the answer will be a resounding NO! Because, they are certainly free to leave if they want to. In Israel, they are free to live their lives as we do in the west. They can run for office, they can own property and businesses, they can serve in the military or the government. They are a free people. They are not being held hostage as the civilians in Gaza are to be used as cannon fodder.
 
Look, I get the history you’re laying out — Israel’s had attacks and real security threats from day one. Nobody’s denying that. But saying Palestinians “lost twice, so tough luck” ignores decades of occupation, displacement, and blockades that make everyday life a fight just to survive.
You miss the point of why they are struggling. Let me lay it out for you. You know all that aid that flows into Gaza? What happens to it? It doesn't get to the people. Some of it sold to the people the rest is sold on the open market or if the aid is money it is directly funneled into buying bombs to drop on Israeli civilians. A lot of it is philtered off first to provide lavish lifestyles for the Hamas leaders. The current crop lives in lavish comfort in Dubai. They don't even go to Gaza. Do you think at any point in the past 20 years they might have looked inward and said - gee, this is dumb, why don't we stop trying to kill all the jews and take advantage of what we do have. But no. The Palestinians are convinced that the Jews deserve NOT an INCH of territory to call home. The bible be damned. The area is NOT the home of the Jews it belongs only to the people who call themselves Palestinians. So, they will bomb Israeli civilians until every single one of them is dead. If I had had my finger on the trigger, that would have happened after the October attack. Those animals all deserve to die. They cannot live as civilized humans. They have tried to destroy Jordan and Egypt and Syria and Kuwait who took them in by large numbers after 1948, they succeeded in destroying Lebanon and Afghanistan.

The Palestinians have brought ALL of their woes upon themselves by their irrational hatred of Jews and total refusal to live in peace as neighbors. How many chances do you want to give them? Do you want people like that as your neighbors? Every day you get rocks through your windows. Is that any way to live?

Ask yourself WHY NO Arab country will accept Palestinian refugees?

Also keep in mind the purging of non-Muslims that has taken place throughout the middle East and Africa. Most of the Christians and Jews are gone. What used to be millions is down to hundreds in some countries and the purge is still going on. Afghanistan used to be a Buddhist nation. All the Buddhists have been killed or converted. The Muslims have no intention of living in peace with any other people. PERIOD. Look at their actions. Actions speak louder than words and their actions are deadly. All you have to do is stop believing that they are the victims. They are most certainly not victims.
 
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But pretending the problem is one-sided is just propaganda.

True enough, I guess. But in the TWO-sided viewpoint, one of the sides says they want to eradicate their enemies totally, "from the river to the sea" (and all points in between). The other side just wants to survive based on the onslaught of those who would deny them that option. One side is based on religious hatred, the other side is based on desperation to survive. And that AIN'T propaganda.

When the shooting is still ongoing, long-term history means :poop: and always will. It is only when both sides stop shooting and sit peacefully at a table that long-held grievances have any merit.
 
Calling an entire people “animals” doesn’t make you right — it makes you blind. Yes, Hamas commits terrorism, but punishing every Palestinian for the choices of armed groups isn’t justice — it’s collective punishment, and it keeps the conflict alive. If peace is ever going to happen, it will come from seeing the human cost on both sides, holding leaders accountable, and treating people like people — not wishing anyone dead.
Ask yourself WHY NO Arab country will accept Palestinian refugees?
And for the record, whether or not Arab countries accept Palestinian refugees is a political issue, not proof that Palestinians are unworthy of life.
 
If peace is ever going to happen, it will come from seeing the human cost on both sides, holding leaders accountable, and treating people like people — not wishing anyone dead.

And with Hamas, the sticking point is the very last grammatical sub-clause of your statement. Hamas wishes EVERYONE dead in Israel. I still believe that the IDF would happily stop if Hamas would... but I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen.
 
I hear you, Doc, and I think you’re right — desperation and the drive to survive are very different from ideological hatred. That said, even when one side is fighting just to stay alive, the human cost is real — civilians, families, kids — and it’s too easy to overlook systemic issues that keep the cycle of violence going. Peace isn’t just about stopping the shooting; it’s about addressing why people are desperate or angry enough to fight in the first place.
 
And with Hamas, the sticking point is the very last grammatical sub-clause of your statement. Hamas wishes EVERYONE dead in Israel. I still believe that the IDF would happily stop if Hamas would... but I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen.
A fair point. Hamas’s ideology is extreme, and Israel’s survival instincts are strong. But even if one side would “stop” tomorrow, the civilians caught in the crossfire continue paying the price.
 
Peace isn’t just about stopping the shooting; it’s about addressing why people are desperate or angry enough to fight in the first place.

True, but peace starts when BOTH sides are ready to stop shooting. So far, we don't appear to have that.
 

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