Civil War Beginning in Russia (1 Viewer)

[Jon]

Unbelievable news! Wagner is marching towards Moscow with an army of 25,000 troops to remove the military leadership. I am astonished at how suddenly things can change around.

Additionally, this must surely have a huge impact on Russia's front line defences in Ukraine. Think of the impact on morale, troops will have to be diverted to defend Moscow and Ukraine could surely make breakthroughs on the front line as gaps appear.

The optics of this for Putin are terrible. He is losing his grip on power.

Is this the end for Putin and his dictatorship? Could Russia collapse?

 

[Jon]

Russia has allegedly blocked parts of the internet and banned state media from mentioning any of Wagners statements. I got this from Telegram channels.

 

[Steve R.]

Since the Wagner Group is a mercenary outfit, the US could hire them (through the Ukraine) to defend the Ukraine. It might be a cheaper option for the US.

Leader of Wagner mercenaries says forces entered Russian city of Rostov facing no resistance

The owner of the Wagner private military contractor Yevgeny Prigozhin says his forces have driven into the Russian city of Rostov, facing no resistance.

www.pbs.org

Wagner mercenary boss faces arrest over ‘incitement to armed rebellion’

 

[Jon]

Apparently the Wagner convoy is 50km long!

 

[Steve R.]

Does the Wagner Group have any air-power?
Time for the CIA to get to work.
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PS: New headlines.

Russia opens criminal investigation into Wagner Group chief

Russia is opening a criminal investigation into the Wagner Group chief and is urging its soldiers not to follow orders from the group's leader.

www.foxnews.com

A Russian government agency is opening a criminal investigation into Wagner Group chief Yevgeny Prigozhin after he called for an armed rebellion on Friday, which was aimed at removing the country's defense minister.

In a series of video and audio recordings, Prigozhin angrily accused Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu of ordering a rocket strike on the private military contractor's field camps where the group is fighting on behalf of Russia in Ukraine.

"This is not a military coup, but a march of justice," Prigozhin declared. "The evil embodied by the country’s military leadership must be stopped."

Russia accuses mercenary chief of armed mutiny after he vows to punish top brass

Russia accused mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin of armed mutiny on Friday after he alleged, without providing evidence, that the military leadership had killed a huge number of his fighters in an air strike and vowed to punish them.

www.reuters.com

 

[Galaxiom]

Maybe Putin didn't pay the bills? One way or another it is definitely a bad idea to piss off a mercenary army.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Somehow, I'm not excited about deposing Putin. Getting rid of evil dictators hasn't worked all that well for us in the past.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

There is that old phrase about preferring the evil you know to the evil you don't know, but I'm a bit afraid that the choice is no longer in our hands.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Time for the CIA to get to work.

Pretty sure this is a CIA sponsored field trip...

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

I just saw this article:-

Wagner rebels career toward showdown with Putin as they push to Moscow

Moscow mayor says ‘counter-terrorist operation’ declared in the city and that situation is ‘complicated’

www.politico.eu

And came here for a fact check!

 

[Cotswold]

There is that old phrase about preferring the evil you know to the evil you don't know, but I'm a bit afraid that the choice is no longer in our hands.

When I was in business I never thought that the theory of "the devil you know" was ever an acceptable reason for keeping someone on who had let you down or wasn't good enough. It only emboldened them, often they thought well I got away with that so I'll get away with anything. But if the replacement was useless, I'd get rid of them as well. No problem. They had to maintain standards, my standards!
I always believed that if someone let you down once, then they were more likely to let you down again. So get rid ASAP.

But TheDocMan, you are absolutely right, with this new but predicted situation, we don't have any control. And this guy Prigozhin and his Wagner mercenaries are ruthless. The hammer is not a symbol, it is there to force compliance and is often used. Someone like Priogozhin as president of Russia will make Putin look like a boy scout, plus he'll never obey, or kowtow to China, as does Putin.

My guess is that if Prigozhin takes over Russia he will negotiate a peace with Ukraine. Then after he's established as ruler, he'll go back and finish the job in Ukraine with frightening enthusiasm.

Times they are a changin'

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

More Info HERE:-

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1672581931739881473

 

[The_Doc_Man]

When I was in business I never thought that the theory of "the devil you know" was ever an acceptable reason for keeping someone on who had let you down or wasn't good enough. It only emboldened them, often they thought well I got away with that so I'll get away with anything. But if the replacement was useless, I'd get rid of them as well. No problem. They had to maintain standards, my standards!
I always believed that if someone let you down once, then they were more likely to let you down again. So get rid ASAP.

But TheDocMan, you are absolutely right, with this new but predicted situation, we don't have any control. And this guy Prigozhin and his Wagner mercenaries are ruthless. The hammer is not a symbol, it is there to force compliance and is often used. Someone like Priogozhin as president of Russia will make Putin look like a boy scout, plus he'll never obey, or kowtow to China, as does Putin.

My guess is that if Prigozhin takes over Russia he will negotiate a peace with Ukraine. Then after he's established as ruler, he'll go back and finish the job in Ukraine with frightening enthusiasm.

Times they are a changin'

First, you are absolutely right... the times they ARE a-changing. I think we are victims of the old Chinese curse: May you live in interesting times.

Second, I often believed that I needed to know WHY a person let me down. Total incompetence = bye, bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out. An honest mistake, however, can sometimes be counseled to help the person be better. And working as a contractor with the U.S. Navy, I saw my share of both. The problem was that I never had the right to decide who deserved a boot in the butt and who deserved a bit of TLC. With Civil Service rules, the Peter Principle usually applied. The bad-news folks rose to their level of incompetence after which they started the inevitable sideways transfers - as bosses recognized that they had a real jerk but couldn't fire him/her without cause so they gave that person to another manager in hopes they would get the message and retire, or would do something that led to proper cause for termination of employment.

 

[Jon]

Does the Wagner Group have any air-power?

No, but they have mobile air defence systems that can operate while they move. They have already shot down a Russian helicopter that was about to attack them.

There is a good chance that Prigozhin would want to finish the war, potentially removing troops. He said Putin was lied to and that Ukraine was not looking to attack Russia, and neither was NATO. Both are true statements and also contradict the official Russian narrative. He said the reason for the invasion was fabricated. Given that, if his coup is successful, then his own statements suggest that they should pull out of Ukraine, since there was never a threat to Russia in the first place.

There is talk that Prigozhin's complaining of a lack of ammunition a couple of months ago was in fact a ruse to gain enough munitions to stage a coup. Also, the claim of being attacked by Russian forces from the rear is also a possible false flag.

Whatever happens, Putin has already lost control of his country and could end up in political asylum in China. He will be queuing up for his meagre pension at the post office like all the others.

 

[Cotswold]

Well that all ended up as a bit of a damp squib.
Putin and Prigozhin are now playing happy families but I wonder how long if will be before Prigozhin will accidentally take a dive out of a tenth floor window. So often the reward for the naughty people. In the meantime it's back to Plan-A razing Ukraine.

In the meantime the UK government is still determined to make us the most taxed country on earth by adding nearly £200 onto the heating bills. That is on top of all the other hidden taxes that have been added in the last 13 years. No doubt next week they'll fine a few water companies billions, which will promptly be added to all of our water bills. These extra charges are to pay for supporting the illegal boat people and other extra social costs, which are now higher than all government pension costs and rising.

 

[ColinEssex]

In the meantime the UK government is still determined to make us the most taxed country on earth by adding nearly £200 onto the heating bills. That is on top of all the other hidden taxes that have been added in the last 13 years. No doubt next week they'll fine a few water companies billions, which will promptly be added to all of our water bills. These extra charges are to pay for supporting the illegal boat people and other extra social costs, which are now higher than all government pension costs and rising.

Plus, I would imagine higher taxes to pay for the hundreds of millions of pounds worth of military equipment we are giving Ukraine for free.
Col

 

[Steve R.]

At this time it is too early to tell what the supposed Putin/Prigozhin compromise means. The only "obvious" observation; once Prigozhin is separated (isolated) from his troops (his power base), he is a dead man.

 

[Jon]

He has agreed to be exhiled to Belarus.

It has been the oddest 24 hours in Russian history!

 

[AccessBlaster]

News cycle.

 

[Steve R.]

The leader of Belarus is Lukashenko, who is a lackey of Putin. Getting exiled to Belarus is akin to isolating yourself from your power base and placing yourself at the mercy of your foe. How long can you be expected to remain alive given that situation?