Clear out data (6 Viewers)

[LarryE]

He's already agreed to split his db. What if I get him to normalize his db? Whether he does, or not, you always have the option to filter him out.

Geologist taken for granite and getting boulder....

 

[isladogs]

Okay Guys, let’s back off the critique. @DakotaRidge has agreed his project needs to be split. That's a giant step in the right direction. Next step will be normalization. There's hope. I haven't lost faith.

I disagree. Nowhere in this thread has he agreed to split his database.
We had the same interminable discussions with his proposals database. It never got implemented and indeed never went to production.
I very much doubt this will be any different. This database will likely remain for his personal use only

David is a nice guy. However, he is a master at stringing people along knowing everyone wants to help him, but having no intention of ever changing his approach.

 

[DakotaRidge]

Yesterday was an interesting and very good day for me. I went to the library with two of my grandsons where I read the current edition of the Kiplinger Personal Financial magazine. I found an article with a map showing states with no state tax. The article allowed me to create a new map in my Personal Finance and Health database.

Later in the day, I found a map prepared by the CDC that shows states with increasing incidences of Covid this summer. So, I created another map in my database. The CDC suggests ways that folks can address their exposure to new strains of Covid.

Then later in the day a professional troll hunter targeted me. He had discovered that I had had another AW account in the past. That’s true. I created a new account a few weeks ago when UtterAccess closed down shop. My old PC died in December, and I lost my AW password so I could not get into AW to ask questions of Access experts. I figured that as long as I was using only one AW account that it was okay. Who knew a troll hunter would come along and research my activity back several years.

I also had two UA accounts because the UA administrator had a problem with my first account, and he decided to create a new one for me.

Now my database has 556 forms, which the troll hunter thinks is excessive. I am sorry that I read a lot, and when I find useful ideas in the literature, I add new tables, forms, and reports to my database. My goal is to end 2025 with a thousand forms, and equal numbers of reports and tables.

After adding new forms today, I reconfigured three of my custom navigation forms. I repositioned the command buttons that open forms that list Covid symptoms and symptoms of illnesses related to contaminated water in public pools.

 

[arnelgp]

My goal is to end 2025 with a thousand forms, and equal numbers of reports and tables.

that is very small number i would say. Aim high, the more the merrier.

 

[gemma-the-husky]

Also Pete, I understand splitting, I have done it in the past. That's not the problem.

The big problem will be getting family members to manage a FE and a BE. I know that a single file is easier to work with than two.

Today, if I send folks 10 tables, 30 forms, and 20 reports to copy into BE and FE files, it won't get done. And if I send folks 30 tables tomorrow and 50 forms tomorrow, all I will hear will be crickets. You may say 10/30/20 and 30/50 is a lot, but I create lots of objects when I read textbooks, magazine articles, and research on the Web. Sorry about that.

The 550 forms in my database now could grow to 1000 in four months. The number of tables and reports may also double in number.

Some developers on AW tag me for not having a normalized database. But so far, no one has told me how to create DKNF tables. I see 3NF in the literature, but why should I leave holes in my database structure when I can do DKNF? That makes no sense to me.

Another problem is that no one knows how structured my database really is. They haven't seen the relationship map or used the database. They don't know what calculations it does and why. They have not listened to it talk. They have not used the graphics. I keep describing parts of the database, but it will take a thousand pages of text to do the application justice.

What should I do folks? I am inclined to continue creating tables, forms, and reports. The forms and reports need to have speech, graphics, and animation. Are there enhancements beyond that that I can make?

If you split the database, your users don't need to add any new forms. They just replace the old front end with a new front end.

If you want to add new data to their backend, you can give them a single process that inserts all the new data for them

It would just look like the way an install wizard works when you get a new version of any software you use.

 

[NauticalGent]

David is a nice guy. However, he is a master at stringing people along knowing everyone wants to help him, but having no intention of ever changing his approach.

that is very small number i would say. Aim high, the more the merrier.

 

[BlueSpruce]

I disagree. Nowhere in this thread has he agreed to split his database.
We had the same interminable discussions with his proposals database. It never got implemented and indeed never went to production.
I very much doubt this will be any different. This database will likely remain for his personal use only

David is a nice guy. However, he is a master at stringing people along knowing everyone wants to help him, but having no intention of ever changing his approach.

His proposals app is too huge to fix, but his family planning app is still young and salvageable. We shall soon find out. If he doesn't change, then I will stop my efforts and ignore him.

 

[MajP]

Now my database has 556 forms, which the troll hunter thinks is excessive. I am sorry that I read a lot, and when I find useful ideas in the literature, I add new tables, forms, and reports to my database. My goal is to end 2025 with a thousand forms, and equal numbers of reports and tables.

The part you do not get is that I guarantee I could take your database and keep all the current functionality and provide way more capability and do it with probably 20 forms, 20 tables, and 10 reports. Just a tad easier to maintain.

 

[BlueSpruce]

The part you do not get is that I guarantee I could take your database and keep all the current functionality and provide way more capability and do it with probably 20 forms, 20 tables, and 10 reports. Just a tad easier to maintain.

Agreed, but he would have to normalize his tables to do that. If he does normalize, can he consolidate all those objects and provide desired functionality without having to write vba code, and just use macros? Do macro limitations coerce denormalized design?

12 years ago I came across a 2003 pasofino horse registry app that had 400 forms, all using macros. They wanted us to convert it to 2010, replace macros with vba, and normalize the schema. We quoted $70K, they passed, and we were actually happy they passed because it would've taken a long time to do.

 

[MajP]

can he consolidate all those objects and provide desired functionality without having to write vba code

The only way you can have that many forms is that most of these forms are all doing the same thing. Maybe a different sort order, or filter, or visible controls etc. That is why I can rebuild this application with 20 different forms and modify them at runtime. If OP says they are not are all unique then it is a lie.
Can you modify them at runtime using macros? Maybe a little. I can probably write some working code using only one finger to type and closing both eyes. However, I chose not to handicap myself that severely. That seems really painful to attempt. To me using only macros would be equivalent to trying to build an application, but only typing with my eyes closed. The question is not can it be done, it is who in the hell would want to.

 

[BlueSpruce]

I can probably write some working code using only one finger to type and closing both eyes. However, I chose not to handicap myself that severely. That seems really painful to attempt. To me using only macros would be equivalent to trying to build an application, but only typing with my eyes closed. The question is not can it be done, it is who in the hell would want to.

I mention using just macros because that's the only method OP knows how to work with. Sometimes I feel he would like an experienced Access developer to build his apps the correct way, but without having to pay for it, and he also wants ability to mod it himself, but doesn't know how to wirk with vba.

12 years ago I came across a 2003 Andalusian horse registry app that had 400 forms, all using macros. They wanted us to convert it to 2010, replace macros with vba, and normalize the schema. We quoted $70K, they passed, and we were actually happy they passed because it would've taken a long time to do.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Chatty could untangle this in about 2 seconds, I reckon.

 

[BlueSpruce]

Chatty could untangle this in about 2 seconds, I reckon.

So then the OP should use chatty to fix his apps without us having to get involved.

 

[Joan Wild]

When I finish it, I will take it up to Redmond and let them split it. Then I will take it to Florida and let guys there play with it. Then bring it back to Colorado and fix the mess.

Quite the trip for someone who hasn't travelled more than 10 miles from home in five years.

I understand splitting, I have done it in the past.

So why take it to Redmond to have it done?

Today, if I send folks 10 tables, 30 forms, and 20 reports to copy into BE and FE files, it won't get done. And if I send folks 30 tables tomorrow and 50 forms tomorrow, all I will hear will be crickets.

So just what IS your plan to update them when you have added objects. You've said your family won't/can't refresh links from an updated FE to their BE file, so how will they get the updated database without overwriting their existing data? Please explain.

 

[BlueSpruce]

So just what IS your plan to update them when you have added objects. You've said your family won't/can't refresh links from an updated FE to their BE file, so how will they get the updated database without overwriting their existing data? Please explain.

With relinking code, users only need to launch the new FE's and it will automatically relink to their BE's, but that's beyond the OP.

 

[Joan Wild]

I remember when this database was first discussed at UA. It started with his sister mentioning she wanted an easy way to keep track of her bills and expenses. He was given a reasonable structure within 5 posts, but I don't think he went with it.

I think he's lost sight of the goal, as it's now changed to 1000 tables, forms and reports. Is your sister using it?

 

[Joan Wild]

With relinking code, users only need to launch the new FE's and it will automatically relink to their BE's, but that's beyond the OP.

Yes I know that. That's why I'm asking him what HIS plan actually is, since relinking is 'out of the question'.

 

[AccessBlaster]

So then the OP should use chatty to fix his apps without us having to get involved.

This project needs to be reimagined if it has any hope of becoming useful.

 

[NauticalGent]

So then the OP should use chatty to fix his apps without us having to get involved.

Almost 200 posts into this, he/we are no closer to a solution to the original question. When he was given an answer to it, there was no follow-thru on his part to actually try it. The developers here tried (in vain) to save him from himself but he seems to take delight in explaining how his unique and wonderful personality somehow insulates him from the same fate his last endeavor suffered.

Yeah, Chatty is the right tool for him...

That being said, Mods and Admins: PLEASE do not close this thread. Rubber-necking is how I am entertained...

 

[DakotaRidge]

that is very small number i would say. Aim high, the more the merrier.

Yes, arnelgp. That's a small number for me, but Pete states that he can reduce it to 20 forms. I just counted the number of domains and there are more than 84. I just don't see how it can be done considering that I have ten personalities, three races, and three generations of users in five states to deal with. Just dealing with extroverts is a real challenge for me.

Has someone here written an Access textbook that describes how to design and develop a comprehensive Access database with graphics and speech? I have been looking for books like that for decades. By comprehensive, I mean that the book needs to discuss everything from compiling the requirements to creating the tables, forms, and reports; to normalizing the tables; to creating the graphics; to splitting, to testing, distributing, and maintaining the application.

Thanks.