Coronavirus - are we all doomed?

[The_Doc_Man]

All drugs are measured according to probability of effect. It is part of the evaluation of efficacy, which is part of drug trials. A drug that is even 50% effective is better than one that is only 10% effective, and no drug I have ever heard of is 100% effective. There are no guarantees in life.

Consider an ad I have seen in the last several months for a breast cancer treatment that is only prescribed for metastatic cancer that is positive for one factor and negative for another. That is SO specific that when compared to breast cancer in general, it must be less than 50% of the total cancer population. Yet it is marketed for those who have that condition.

The drugs for ANYTHING have side effects. For instance, I can take acetaminophen (generic of Tylenol) but because of my liver, only sparingly. My wife can take certain penicillin derivatives, but some of them give her hives. Again, the bad effect hits a percentage of the population. Doesn't stop that drug from being marketed. That is how I feel about the drugs for COVID-19.

Life isn't about black and white. It is about shades of gray. It is not about hard-and-fast guaranteed effects, it is about percentages. We talk about the ills of alcohol or tobacco or recreational drugs but none of them is guaranteed to kill you. They are just LIKELY to contribute to your demise.

 

[moke123]

3 months is a long time. I've been in hiding for the last 2 weeks and its rough. I'm considered an essential worker as my agency is designated as such but I'm the only one in my office that cant work from home. I'm safe so far till early March and hope that I can get my hands on some PPE before then.

 

[Minty]

I'm safe so far till early March and hope that I can get my hands on some PPE before then.

My friend works for this lot https://www.avon-protection.com/
They make proper protective gear. Shall I have a word?

 

[moke123]

My friend works for this lot https://www.avon-protection.com/
They make proper protective gear. Shall I have a word?

Thats serious looking stuff.

 

[moke123]

From USAMega.com (LotteryPost)

There was no jackpot winner in the Saturday, March 28, 2020 Powerball drawing, but 1 lucky player from New York matched the first 5 numbers for a $1,000,000 prize.

I hope they make it to cash the ticket.

 

[moke123]

I just heard that an employee of the ONLY supermarket in town tested positive.
Now what? Do they close the market? Quarantine all or some of the employees?
I'm thinking they probably cleaned the store extra carefully so wondering if I should go in the Am.

 

[deletedT]

so wondering if I should go in the Am.

If it was me, I would stay away.
For me better being hungry than lying in a bed having trouble to breath.

 

[deletedT]

I cannot see what is wrong with someone stating that a drug combination has a real chance of attacking the coronavirus.

To be true, I don't know what President Trump exactly has said about it and I'm not at a position to judge him, but someone is quite different with the president of the most powerful country in the world.

When a doctor in a lab says something, is completely different with when the president of US says exactly the same thing.
Their responsibility, their position, their authority is quite different.

Again I'm not defending anyone, I'm just saying you can't compare someone with the president of US.

 

[deletedT]

Lets stick with your current misquote before moving on to your next misquote. You intentionally misquoted Trump to further your own sick and twisted view.

I don't know about his recent quote but I really can't understand why president Trump's supporters don't accept his mis-quotes.
Have you forgotten what he said about water mills and cancer? How many more mis-quote are you looking for? just search for them.

 

[Jon]

To be true, I don't know what President Trump exactly has said about it and I'm not at a position to judge him, but someone is quite different with the president of the most powerful country in the world.

When a doctor in a lab says something, is completely different with when the president of US says exactly the same thing.
Their responsibility, their position, their authority is quite different.

Again I'm not defending anyone, I'm just saying you can't compare someone with the president of US.

Are you really arguing that Trump did something wrong because he said compound X has a real chance of working for coronavirus, yet someone took compound Y because they thought it sounded similar?

Are you suggesting that because Trump is very powerful that you cannot compare someone with him? Are you suggesting that you cannot compare Trump's height to someone else's height? Clearly you can. In other words, you can compare Trump to other people. He is a person. Just because he has power, it doesn't mean to say you have to take foolish action.

Do you believe that if the President says something "might" work, he is saying it will work? I mean come on, do you think he should be micromanaging everything he says? That is an untenable position to take. He stated the truth, as he sees it. Someone did something foolish. Blame Trump! Seems to be the default position of Trump haters.

 

[Jon]

I don't know about his recent quote but I really can't understand why president Trump's supporters don't accept his mis-quotes.
Have you forgotten what he said about water mills and cancer? How many more mis-quote are you looking for? just search for them.

What did he misquote?

Would you like me to present misquotes from Biden, Hillary, Obama, Bill too? We are all human. I mean Biden recently talked about the coronavirus cure making the problem worse. I honestly think he has a serious medical issue, and I am not saying that from a malevolent point of view.

 

[deletedT]

Are you really arguing that Trump did something wrong because he said compound X has a real chance of working for coronavirus, yet someone took compound Y because they thought it sounded similar?

No. Because I don't know what he said at all.

Are you suggesting that because Trump is very powerful that you cannot compare someone with him? Are you suggesting that you cannot compare Trump's height to someone else's height?

I can't believe this comment comes from you. You know for sure I didn't meant height or color or anything in this rank.

Do you believe that if the President says something "might" work, he is saying it will work? I mean come on, do you think he should be micromanaging everything he says?

Yes. He has to be sure what he says is correct. He's not a normal person. He's not me who says "Sorry.I was wrong." a hundred times a day.
He has responsibility against his words because the whole world are looking at him. Listening to him. and half of the world believe him.

 

[Jon]

All the above aside, there is at least some positive trends in Germany, Spain and Italy. The exponential has slowed and fallen in some cases.

If you want to look at a country that has done a great job in tackling the virus, look at South Korea. I watched a great YouTube video from a doctor over there, who talked about the arrogant attitude of some Western countries in how they are dealing with this pandemic. In particular, the myths about face masks. I've been banging on about the lies we have been told for ages.

It is well worth a watch. Very fact based.

 

[Jon]

I can't believe this comment comes from you. You know for sure I didn't meant height or color or anything in this rank.

You said you cannot compare a president with someone else. I am arguing you can. So you accept my position that you can compare him. What you said was factually wrong. Perhaps you meant something else. I am opening to hearing what it was?

Yes. He has to be sure what he says is correct. He's not a normal person. He's not me who says "Sorry.I was wrong." a hundred times a day.
He has responsibility against his words because the whole world are looking at him. Listening to him. and half of the world believe him.

You are like me then. The number of typos I make is ridiculous I have to keep editing everything I write.

To answer this point, if you believe that because someone has lots of power they have to be infallible, that is to not understand human nature. It is human to err. We all know that. It seems you are suggesting that because he has power, he should be bound by something that is not possible, to never make a mistake.

If he says the malaria drug combo has a chance to be effective, is that correct or incorrect, because I believe that is what we are arguing about?

Edit: Just a comment to Tera. I do accept that Trump has more of a responsibility to be as accurate as possible. Yet he is human, just like the rest of us. The point I am really making is that to say we cannot compare Trump to others is, in my humble opinion, an artificial framework you have imposed on your belief system. As another aside, because I have the authority on my forums, it does not mean I believe that my view is the right one and your view is the wrong one. It just "seems" to me that my view is accurate and yours is not because I am limited by my own life experience and prism of thought. In reality, I might be completely wrong and you completely right.

This makes me think of a religious argument. If someone believes in God, yet an atheist believes there is no God, then the atheist believes that the religious person is taking the word of nothing, since Gods words are fiction. If the religious person follows the words of nothing, who is to blame for their folly? I'm not sure where I'm going with this one, but thought I would tack it on!

 

[Minty]

To answer this point, if you believe that because someone has lots of power they have to be infallible, that is to not understand human nature.

Just to add my 2p worth here - The problem (in my humble opinion) is Trump really thinks he is infallible, and never makes a mistake.
I think that Tera's point was more that someone in his position shouldn't misinterpret things and then "Trumpsplain" them to the great unwashed.
His understanding of these things has already proven to be "Better than anyone else's" (sic)

 

[AccessBlaster]

To be true, I don't know what President Trump exactly has said about it and I'm not at a position to judge him, but someone is quite different with the president of the most powerful country in the world.

This is probably the most powerful man and country in the world. The left in this country won't even acknowledged he is a threat. Biden cant' wait to start the unbalanced trade practices we've had in the past.

 

[deletedT]

What did he misquote?

Would you like me to present misquotes from Biden, Hillary, Obama, Bill too? We are all human. I mean Biden recently talked about the coronavirus cure making the problem worse. I honestly think he has a serious medical issue, and I am not saying that from a malevolent point of view.

I’m really eager to see a comment as false as “Wind mills sound causes cancer” from Obama.
Or ”Under windmills there’s bald eagles grave yard.”
not that I say he didn’t mis-quoted. I just want to say the level of stupidity is different.


@Jon yes we are all human and we all do mistakes. But the president of the United States is not allowed to do the same mistakes as I do. He has a lot of advisors, several people to write his speeches, a lot of people to check what Effects his words will cause to the world. I don’t listen to Hillary’s or Baiden’s speeches because they don’t and won’t change the way the world is. But million of people have put their trust on Trump and a mistake from him changes everything. people will believe if they wait for Easter and do nothing, Corona will be gone. Who is responsible for all the lost lives in US?
If he was wise enough to do a research from Korea or other countries who showed reasonable infection rates and ask people to use mouth masks, a lot of lives were saved.

A mistake from president of United States and the Third World War may begin. Now you are trying to compare the possibility of mistakes between him and a normal person? Because we are all human and human do mistakes? I simply can’t understand it.

I apologize to all for going off topic and changed this thread to a political one.
I promise it’s the last political post from me.

 

[Jon]

If he was wise enough to do a research fro Korea or other countries and ask people to use mouth masks, a lot of lives were saved.

How about blaming the Democrats for going through a farce of an impeachment, sucking up the presidents time during a brewing crisis? How about blaming WHO for saying don't wear face masks? Ok, just blame the president if it makes you happy!

Who is responsible for all the lost lives in US?

There is collective responsibility, including those who ignore the advice that government does give. It also includes the Democrats again for trying to put in things irrelevant to the coronavirus issue into the stimulus package, slowing down its release. How about the Democrats who criticised Trump for having a travel ban from China early on?

Trump has to make decisions, but he receives lots of advice, some conflicting and in fast moving situations, with very little time in which to do it. The WHO itself says don't worry about face-masks, yet the advice is misleading, because they are effective at reducing risk. You can blame everything on Trump, but that is only because you dislike him so much.

A mistake from president of United States and the Third World War will begin. Now you try to compare the possibility of mistakes between him and a normal person? I simply can’t understand it.

A mistake from a Doctor, and the person can die. Frequent mistakes from a Doctor, and many can die. A mistake from Trump talking about where he was last Tuesday, and nothing happens. I've just provided your comparison. Now perhaps you can understand it. You see what you are doing is talking about extreme hypothetical cases that haven't happened with another person who does not do anything. It is an unfair comparison. A person can accidentally set fire to a building and kill many people. Obama has been involved in more death and destruction than Trump ever has. More missiles, more drone strikes, more Guantanamo. Look at what has happened in Syria, where he said cross the red line and there will be consequences. Well, chemical weapons were used again and he did nothing. No follow through resulting in an escalation of chaos. Was it not Obama who caused the deadliest of mistakes?

Is it always a mistake from the president that you don't like if a world war happens? Do you believe in letting other countries do what Germany did and ignore it?

Trump and his windmill...yes, its a bit out there! But, what about any religious Democrats? If you are an atheist, perhaps you should be holding them to the same standards, talking about mirages that do not exist. A very high percentage of people in America are religious. Why not talk about their nonsense too? You might be religious and instead want to talk about the atheists nonsense. The point being, everybody talk nonsense, including me in this thread!! To be honest, I shouldn't get involved in the politics on this board. People get hot headed about it, and that seems to be impossible to avoid. I am the same. So, I will bow out, so long as I can resist it!

One last issue to consider. You hold Trump to an impossible standard. But how do you know if any other person out there would have handled it better? You have no evidence that they would have. You may believe it is obvious that they would, but you do not know. You cannot know.

 

[moke123]

How about blaming the Democrats for going through a farce of an impeachment, sucking up the presidents time during a brewing crisis?

Whether or not it was a farce of an impeachment will ultimately be decided when all the information that was kept from the american people sees the light of day. I wont argue it either way and will leave it to history to tell us. To argue that it sucked up all his time I find to be a little speculative. The impeachment was over on Feb. 5th. Congress had a classified briefing on the virus in the last week of January. The China travel ban occurred somewhere in the last few days of Jan. Trump did not testify or attend the proceedings. All the heavy lifting was done by his defense team.

Meanwhile the schedule of his rallies, to me anyway, tells a different story.

When you add in the golf dates it looks worse

Just sayin'

 

[Steve R.]

A ticking time-bomb has apparently gone off: "Arlington employee charged for shooting burglar in middle of the night, owner speaks out". The quickie summary, an employee engaged in protecting a store ends up being the one going to jail. What is ludicrous, is that people who are very likely to commit crimes are being released from jail for a variety of reasons. One current reason, Covid-19.

The Washington Post, as one example, reported today: Harris County, Tex., could release 1,000 inmates from jail in coming days. The Hill reports: California to release up to 3,500 non-violent inmates amid coronavirus outbreak. Also the New York Post reports: DC mayor threatens jail time for leaving home during coronavirus.

So on one hand, people who have been incarcerated, even if assumed to be non-violent, are being released. Also because someone is released from jail does not mean that they will automatically commit a crime, but the potential is there and could be quit high. We also have some political leaders threatening to put people in jail for violating curfew orders, which seem like an oxymoron if you are releasing inmates. Anyway, the main point, why is a person who is apparently defending a store from a burglary being arrested in this time of crisis where the police may not be available to protect that person? Should that person be in danger of becoming a victim, they have the right to protect themselves.

PS: The press is anxious to publish stories such as the one involving the employee, so all the facts may not yet be in and/or disclosed. As we have seen with many stories of this type, the final narrative may be quite different.