Government Vs. The Private Sector

[Thales750]

This is going to make me very popular with my fellow Feds (Federal Employees).

I think there should be a freeze on government raises for ten years, and a freeze on promotions for one.

One of my buddies, I like him but he’s a governement manager and a fool, still believes government folks are behind the private sector in pay.

The average Government worker gets paid 11% more than the equivalent in the private sector.

People should work for Government to serve the country, not because it has a better pay check. Most don’t though.

 

[Steve R.]

A difficult subject. What is the basis for the statement, I hope not FOX news!
Are you comparing a specific government job to an equivalent private sector job? For example, compare a government GS-9 accountant to private sector mid-level accountant? How does the pay of a GS-13 program manager compare to the pay of a Staples store manager?

A lot also depends on where you work. In rural areas, the government sector clearly pays substantially more than the private sector. But New York, Los Angeles, Seattle??????

Anecdotally, I don't believe I have heard of government employees working for the "pay". But I will acknowledge that many speak positively about the benefits, health plan and retirement. As for pay, the Post Office may offer an exception.

Right after posting, I went to look at the New York Times and they just posted this story: More Workers Face Pay Cuts, Not Furloughs

Whether the government sector is or is not paid more than the private sector, there is the reality that we are running-up a huge deficit. Like the private sector, there are needs for price control. A pay freeze is better than no job.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

One of the issues I have always found (or at least, in the last 20 years I've found this) is that it is very hard to make that comparison because Civil Service pay tends to track military pay up to the point that you command more people than a 4-star general/admiral. The job descriptions for CIV positions doesn't match private industry standardized positions (where standards exist). Therefore, claiming pay disparity stems from job description disparity and the apples-to-oranges comparison syndrome.

Having said that, I've seen CIV pay scales because I was tempted to cross over more than once from Contractor to CIV basis, but each time the requirements were so bizarre that I decided it wasn't worth the effort. The pay might have been roughly commensurate, but the requirements were not. Perhaps that is the basis for some of the comments about pay disparity.

 

[kevlray]

I work for a local government in the states. For the most part we make less than our counterparts in the private industry. That is okay with me (unfortunately we are required to particitate in the expensive health insurance program with few options). What makes it tough, is that a lot of new hires fresh out of school work for us a year or two and then make a lot more money elsewhere. The recession actually has helped since there were not a lot of jobs for people to migrate to.

 

[Thales750]

One of the issues I have always found (or at least, in the last 20 years I've found this) is that it is very hard to make that comparison because Civil Service pay tends to track military pay up to the point that you command more people than a 4-star general/admiral. The job descriptions for CIV positions doesn't match private industry standardized positions (where standards exist). Therefore, claiming pay disparity stems from job description disparity and the apples-to-oranges comparison syndrome.

Having said that, I've seen CIV pay scales because I was tempted to cross over more than once from Contractor to CIV basis, but each time the requirements were so bizarre that I decided it wasn't worth the effort. The pay might have been roughly commensurate, but the requirements were not. Perhaps that is the basis for some of the comments about pay disparity.

You have to eliminated "contractor positions" Federal Contractors have the highest pay scale for any worker in the US.

 

[Thales750]

A difficult subject. What is the basis for the statement, I hope not FOX news!
Are you comparing a specific government job to an equivalent private sector job? For example, compare a government GS-9 accountant to private sector mid-level accountant? How does the pay of a GS-13 program manager compare to the pay of a Staples store manager?

A lot also depends on where you work. In rural areas, the government sector clearly pays substantially more than the private sector. But New York, Los Angeles, Seattle??????

Anecdotally, I don't believe I have heard of government employees working for the "pay". But I will acknowledge that many speak positively about the benefits, health plan and retirement. As for pay, the Post Office may offer an exception.

Right after posting, I went to look at the New York Times and they just posted this story: More Workers Face Pay Cuts, Not Furloughs

Whether the government sector is or is not paid more than the private sector, there is the reality that we are running-up a huge deficit. Like the private sector, there are needs for price control. A pay freeze is better than no job.

The Washington DC area, commonly known as the Mid-Atlantic States, employees the most Federal Government Workers in the nation.

As a result of this, seven of the highest income per capita counties in the US are located in the region of Northern Virginia and Southern Maryland.

The sheer arrogance of such a large segment of the population believing they have earned and deserve these high paying jobs is phenomenal.

The biggest problem is that it has created a local economy with some of the highest home prices in the US, leaving Federal Employees with no more expendable income than the rest of the country, but it creates a disproportionate drain on the Non-Federal Employee tax base.

And of course, as usual, the biggest beneficiaries of this program are the Super Builders (Out of thousands of builders in the nation, 20 home builders built 80% of the homes.) And the Federal Contractors who use Government scale to bill for services plus considerable profit on top.
It’s a hell of a deal. Just another way that tax payers are duped. Government is owned lock stock and barrel, by the multinationals.

 

[Thales750]

I work for a local government in the states. For the most part we make less than our counterparts in the private industry. That is okay with me (unfortunately we are required to particitate in the expensive health insurance program with few options). What makes it tough, is that a lot of new hires fresh out of school work for us a year or two and then make a lot more money elsewhere. The recession actually has helped since there were not a lot of jobs for people to migrate to.

I'm sure that's you're impression, but even underpaid local government workers should average the number of people who are no longer working, which is a whole other scale.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Federal Contractors have the highest pay scale for any worker in the US.

Thales750, that might be true for clerical positions but it is not true for technical positions. Were it not for issues of a stagnant local economy (in New Orleans due to the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina), family issues that keep me here, my imminent retirement in about five years, and some pride of accomplishment in what I do, I might have long ago changed industries because there is always more money elsewhere than where I am.

I won't say that I'm resting on my laurels. I come home every day mentally exhausted. I fight code every day. However, I'm in a situation where as long as I don't poop in my soup I'll be able to retire and forget about this place soon enough that I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. (I don't think it is an onrushing train...)

The real truth is that I'm in the wrong business. I realized that a long time ago. I should have been a lawyer or a televangelist. (Of course, my atheism might have gotten in the way of the latter option.)

 

[Lightwave]

I realized that a long time ago. I should have been a lawyer or a televangelist. (Of course, my atheism might have gotten in the way of the latter option.)

Things would have to be pretty bad before I wanted to be a lawyer.

 

[Rich]

Government is owned lock stock and barrel, by the multinationals.

We've been telling you Yankies just that for years

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Lightwave, if you are going to be a lawyer, get involved in something really juicy or don't do it at all. Celebrity divorces are lucrative. Mineral rights lawsuits are pretty good. Although in Louisiana, I knew of a guy who had the worst luck in the world on such issues.

He was a mineral rights specialist dealing in "oil bottoms" - because mineral rights can be subdivided in Louisiana. So he got a case some years ago where he had a 33% contingency fee on $30 million (but nothing if the client lost...) So he tried the case all the way up to the state supreme court - and lost. Sad luck, of course... Two years later he got a case based on the same exact principle, but this time he was representing someone on the other side of the argument. Another 33% contingency based on $45 million this time. Took the case all the way up to the state supreme court... and lost again, because they non-retroactively reversed themselves. So in essence, he lost BOTH SIDES of the same case - and lost $25 million in fees because of Louisiana law being what it is.

Sometimes you just can't win.

 

[Thales750]

Lightwave, if you are going to be a lawyer, get involved in something really juicy or don't do it at all. Celebrity divorces are lucrative. Mineral rights lawsuits are pretty good. Although in Louisiana, I knew of a guy who had the worst luck in the world on such issues.

He was a mineral rights specialist dealing in "oil bottoms" - because mineral rights can be subdivided in Louisiana. So he got a case some years ago where he had a 33% contingency fee on $30 million (but nothing if the client lost...) So he tried the case all the way up to the state supreme court - and lost. Sad luck, of course... Two years later he got a case based on the same exact principle, but this time he was representing someone on the other side of the argument. Another 33% contingency based on $45 million this time. Took the case all the way up to the state supreme court... and lost again, because they non-retroactively reversed themselves. So in essence, he lost BOTH SIDES of the same case - and lost $25 million in fees because of Louisiana law being what it is.

Sometimes you just can't win.

Well Lawyers, what did Samuel Clemens say?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I don't recall what Sam Clemens said about them, but I know Will Shakespeare suggested that all of them should be killed. I'm not that extreme, I actually know a couple of them who are decent people. Only a couple of them, though...

 

[statsman]

One of the problems with comparing the pay of Civil Servants with that in the private sector is that there are very few public jobs with anything like the duties and responsibilites of the private job.

Essentially, the function of the public service is to supply a service which is mandated by law. The public service does not produce anything. They dispurse money to pay for the boondoggle the politicians mandated.

Thales: I'm suprized at you. You really expect people in this day and age to work for the good of their fellow man and be compensated at a reduced rate for the privledge? Regardless of our opinions of their value, public servants do supply a service and not all are mentally challenged. Perhaps your friend got his job because his uncle was elected to office.

 

[Thales750]

I am in my last 3 days of working for the Uncle Sam.

I will never work for government again, I mean, not including the 5 months I work for the IRS.

 

[Steve R.]

Will the grass be greener on the other side of the fence? Let us know. Wish you the best of luck.

 

[seoconsultant]

In essence, make the public service is to provide a service that is authorized by law. public service does not produce anything. They dispurse boondoggle money to pay the politicians to task.

 

[Steve R.]

public service does not produce anything

Regretfully this is a very shortsighted and incorrect viewpoint. As a simple explanation of the function of government, it provides the societal fabric that allows businesses to operate. For example, tax supported education provides business with a pre-trained workforce. Government also funds/undertakes a lot of basic research that ultimately benefits society.

They dispurse boondoggle money to pay the politicians to task.

Government is NOT one entity, it suffers from a multi-personality disorder. To me, one major problem is that the politicians -who direct the government - are "zombies" to their corporate paymasters, so we get ridiculous laws. When these laws are exposed, the media lamely blames the undefined "government".

For example, when we read about government overpaying for a product, the proverbial $100 hammer; do we ever see articles exposing the extortion by private industry? True, the government has overpaid; but there are two sides, private industry does not have to overcharge. So lets recognize that all the ills of society are not caused by government. Private industry is itself making a massive contribution to the ills of society through corrupt actions.