How about that DOW?

[Alisa]

I can't help but feel that the banks were only giving the consumers what they wanted. Consumers wanted mercedes from germany, caviar from russia, cameras from Japan and and everything else from China.

The balance of world power is on the move away from America to the east if the underlying problem with the balance of trade can't be sorted out.

Britain's exactly the same - the switch in the balance of trade from creditor to debtor was the end of the British Empire as it could be for America...

I disagree. Nobody I know is living high on the horse. We all just want to be able to afford to meet our basic needs. I think the banks just saw lax regulations, and took what they could get while the getting was good. Lots of CEOs made out like bandits. What about the rest of us?

I do agree that this is further evidence that America is no longer "number 1". I think it hasn't been for quite awhile now, but people are just starting to realize it.

 

[Lightwave]

OK Alisa maybe I shouldn't expressed it quite in those terms.

But a significant number of us are sitting in our residences surrounded by foreign goods - even the small things that we've come to rely on like clothes, electrical household goods, telly's - and of course oil.

 

[Alisa]

Yeah, instead of "Consumers wanted mercedes from germany, caviar from russia, cameras from Japan and and everything else from China." you should have said cars from Japan, oil from Venezuela, and cheap paper products from China. And all of that is due to globalization and our loss of competitive position anyway, I'm not sure it has all that much to do with the banking industry per se.

 

[ajetrumpet]

And I like your "homepage" by the way.

I like my form instruction publications the best. It took a heck of a long time to write those!

 

[ajetrumpet]

I do agree that this is further evidence that America is no longer "number 1". I think it hasn't been for quite awhile now, but people are just starting to realize it.

Yeah right...makes you wonder what's going to happen to us when we have to compete to freakin' LIVE, doesn't it? Scary thought...

And all of that is due to globalization and our loss of competitive position anyway, I'm not sure it has all that much to do with the banking industry per se.

I'm sick of competition! It's hurting people...

 

[Alisa]

I like my form instruction publications the best. It took a heck of a long time to write those!

So many words yet so little information, that takes talent!

 

[georgedwilkinson]

I'm 28, don't know what cute name they have coined for us. I would love to plan for retirement. It's just that I have to spend money on all these pesky things like food and gas for my car and paying my enormous coinsurance whenever somebody gets sick.

Man, that's a drag. It's really hard to save when you're young and starting a family. Unfortunately, it doesn't get much better or easier as you get older.

Not sure what people in your generation are called.

 

[Banana]

Regarding the retirement funds being sunk- I think I said before, but I pointed out that they shouldn't have to be a necessary component. The only reason why we moved from boring ol' saving accounts to 401(k) was because inflation ultimately ate away at the savings, so people had to be a bit more aggressive. But I do agree with Alisa- it's still a risk nonetheless.

So, the real blame isn't at Wall Street but at the government who made the inflation possible in first place. They've been listening to Keynesian economists with their promise of perma-boom for too long and has deeply ingrained the silly idea that a little inflation is good for economy, when in a natural economy, deflation should be the norm.

It also follows that most wealth created were not based on any real savings but rather based on credit expansion and empty promises. Thus, when banks were fully loaned out, it only took one li'l effect to create a ripple effect and reverse the multiplier effect.

And they want us to believe that bailout is somehow necessary to save us all? No, the biggest benefactor is the government, with Wall street coming in next, and us the lowly peons very last, if even at all.

So, I'm glad that bailout failed, though I have to give my representative a piece of mind....

 

[Alisa]

Man, that's a drag. It's really hard to save when you're young and starting a family. Unfortunately, it doesn't get much better or easier as you get older.

Not sure what people in your generation are called.

It may not get easier when you get older, but I think my generation is quantitatively worse off than the last couple of generations. I think mine is the first generation since the baby boom to have fewer opportunities than their parents' generation.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

I'm not really sure. I can tell you that the opportunities never really opened up to me until I was nearly 30.

I have spent a little time at the Dell plant in Austin (did some consulting work there) and the age of the workers there is quite young. A large percentage of workers there were in their 20s. But in my experience in general, many IT shops are full of 30-somethings.

My most interesting case was in the late 90s when I had to hire a young lady right out of college and pay her $80K/Year. That was a bitter pill for me since that was about what I made then. At that time, she had PeopleSoft and Oracle (DBA) skills, which I paid for (literally, she was an intern and we gave her tons of Oracle training and PS OTJ training). And I later found that the PeopleSoft Project Manager and she were having an affair. I was on my way out the door for greener pastures but I recall they both got fired. But it is quite unusual for people in their 20s to get a good solid job, in any generation.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

For what it's worth, here's my two cents' worth.

First, I heard one program today where it came out that the 700 Billion bailout was a "dart board" number. Nobody knew what it would take.

Second, I tend to agree that the issue was a bad economic model that needs to be adjusted.

Third, the golden-parachute guys are doing things to cook the books because of, at base, share-holder greed.

People have forgotten the basic rules of a free economy. Everyone has the right to try to make a profit. Nobody has the right to demand a guarantee to make a profit. Part of me says, take back the money from the fat cats. But realistically, that isn't more than a piddlin' drop in the bucket of lost money. And it's not really lost, it is just bound to things that have deflated in value while the money itself has inflated in value. That money went into circulation. Nobody is hoarding it. Money not spent is money losing value, after all. But the problem is that with the deflation of land value and the inflation of monetary value, you run into a "return on investment" scenario with negative results.

If we do nothing for a bailout, money gets tight again. Businesses stop running on credit. Or will they? Entrepreneurs always take risks. I think after a few adjustments, maybe a few new stiff regulations about credit limits and loan eligibility thresholds, we get back to business. But folks will defer that next improvement project for a while. So we have a slowdown. Not a meltdown, just a slowdown. In other words, this is not a matter of kind, merely a matter of degree.

Of course, I've been known to be wrong before. Once, sometime after midnight on a Thursday in Summer of 1961, ...

 

[Alc]

Not sure what people in your generation are called.

Sidebar: Who decides which generation someone falls into? I've always heard the term used, but how do you know which one you're in? Is it an age thing e.g. everyone born 1941 - 1950 is in generation A, 1951 - 1960 is in B, etc. or is it marked by some event signalling the end of one and the start of the next?

 

[georgedwilkinson]

Marketing people decide. The logic is dictated by what makes them the most money.

 

[Alc]

Marketing people decide. The logic is dictated by what makes them the most money.

So when Alisa refers to her generation, would I be in the same one or different (roughly a decade older)?

 

[georgedwilkinson]

Dunno. I know that at least one of the two of you was termed "generation x" at one time. Now I have no clue.

 

[ajetrumpet]

1927-1945 - Silent Generation or Traditionalists

1946-1964 - Baby Boomers

1965-1983 - Gen X or the Busters

1984- 2002 - Gen Y or the Millennials

2003- Current Gen Z or the Digital Generation

 

[Alc]

1927-1945 - Silent Generation or Traditionalists

1946-1964 - Baby Boomers

1965-1983 - Gen X or the Busters

1984- 2002 - Gen Y or the Millennials

2003- Current Gen Z or the Digital Generation

Dammit, that puts me in the generation experiencing all these problems.

Until I found that out, I was fine.

 

[Alisa]

For what it's worth, here's my two cents' worth.

First, I heard one program today where it came out that the 700 Billion bailout was a "dart board" number. Nobody knew what it would take.

Second, I tend to agree that the issue was a bad economic model that needs to be adjusted.

Third, the golden-parachute guys are doing things to cook the books because of, at base, share-holder greed.

People have forgotten the basic rules of a free economy. Everyone has the right to try to make a profit. Nobody has the right to demand a guarantee to make a profit. Part of me says, take back the money from the fat cats. But realistically, that isn't more than a piddlin' drop in the bucket of lost money. And it's not really lost, it is just bound to things that have deflated in value while the money itself has inflated in value. That money went into circulation. Nobody is hoarding it. Money not spent is money losing value, after all. But the problem is that with the deflation of land value and the inflation of monetary value, you run into a "return on investment" scenario with negative results.

If we do nothing for a bailout, money gets tight again. Businesses stop running on credit. Or will they? Entrepreneurs always take risks. I think after a few adjustments, maybe a few new stiff regulations about credit limits and loan eligibility thresholds, we get back to business. But folks will defer that next improvement project for a while. So we have a slowdown. Not a meltdown, just a slowdown. In other words, this is not a matter of kind, merely a matter of degree.

Of course, I've been known to be wrong before. Once, sometime after midnight on a Thursday in Summer of 1961, ...

I also heard that the 700B number was picked because they wanted "a really big" number. It has no meaning. I also heard that the real number is actually in the trillions, because what they are proposing is to have a sort of revolving line of credit for these banks. I just don't understand why they can't just put a moratorium on foreclosures for like 5 minutes, legislate that all "creatively" financed mortgages be refinanced to a fixed 30 year loan at 6% with no closing costs (how much would that cost? Less than 700 million I bet), and viola, no foreclosure crisis, no more "toxic" debt, no more falling house values, and no more credit crunch. Why is NOBODY talking about fixing the issue? Instead they lament that the sky is falling and the world is ending because the house didn't pass the bailout plan, but nobody seems to be able to explain how the bailout plan would have helped anyway.

 

[Alisa]

1927-1945 - Silent Generation or Traditionalists

1946-1964 - Baby Boomers

1965-1983 - Gen X or the Busters

1984- 2002 - Gen Y or the Millennials

2003- Current Gen Z or the Digital Generation

Well, I can sleep easy now that I have been neatly categorized

 

[ajetrumpet]

Why is NOBODY talking about fixing the issue?

Probably because noone wants the blame upon themselves. Job security perhaps?

Instead they lament that the sky is falling and the world is ending because the house didn't pass the bailout plan, but nobody seems to be able to explain how the bailout plan would have helped anyway.

Maybe noone knows. Maybe the Bush administration is really as stupid as his speaches say they are. He is NOT a public spokesperson by any means. Honestly, I think he's a terrible leader, and he's completely taken his eye off the ball here in the United States.

Well, I can sleep easy now that I have been neatly categorized

I wouldn't pass that off as too much of a joke in today's world.