Is it worth working?

[Rabbie]

That one's been a regular filler item for "news" programs at least since I was a child. Which show did it this time?


Ah, the old gags are the best.

Possibly because the scam has been running for all that time.

In the spirit of Christmas goodwill I think we should all thank Colin for starting this interesting thread which has produced some interesting insights on both sides of the argument.

Finally I would like to wish you all a very happy Christmas

 

[scott-atkinson]

I can remember last year and a day out in Birmingham at Christmas there was a 'Homeless' guy outside the station, with a cloth on the floor collecting money, he was all wrapped up in blankets, was unkempt...etc..

I went back into the station and bought him a coffee and a sandwich and gave them to him. He wasn't that appreciative of my generosity and asked me for the money for them instead, so I kept them myself, and walked off without giving him anything.

He was clearly just scamming for money and a coffee and a sandwich would have cramped his begging style..

Annoying, as there are genuine homeless people, I was once one of them when I was a child, and this sort of thing just puts all people off.

 

[scott-atkinson]

In the spirit of Christmas goodwill I think we should all thank Colin for starting this interesting thread which has produced some interesting insights on both sides of the argument.

It certainly make a difference from Guns.. YAWN.. and Religion..YAWN

Finally I would like to wish you all a very happy Christmas

And wishing you a very merry Christmas too.

 

[Frothingslosh]

I can remember last year and a day out in Birmingham at Christmas there was a 'Homeless' guy outside the station, with a cloth on the floor collecting money, he was all wrapped up in blankets, was unkempt...etc..

I went back into the station and bought him a coffee and a sandwich and gave them to him. He wasn't that appreciative of my generosity and asked me for the money for them instead, so I kept them myself, and walked off without giving him anything.

He was clearly just scamming for money and a coffee and a sandwich would have cramped his begging style..

Annoying, as there are genuine homeless people, I was once one of them when I was a child, and this sort of thing just puts all people off.

Any system will ALWAYS have people scamming it. The basic nature of humanity is to be a greedy asshole.

That doesn't mean you let them rot because That One Dude isn't actually homeless.

And honestly, even the beggars who aren't homeless and are just doing it because it's a low-effort way to get enough money to get by (although I'd hate to see the hourly breakdown in most cases) are being more honest about it than some of the lazy leeches I've worked with before. To be quite honest, either the folks I told about really needed the lunch I bought them or they didn't. If the first, then I was happy to help. If I didn't, then I still made someone's day a little better. It's not like the cost of an extra pizza and 2-liter would break me, and if they weren't actually hungry, then based on their tears and thanks when I did that, they need an agent in Hollywood STAT.

Also, remember, this is Flint, and they were begging in a run-down, moderate crime area I travel through every day. They do NOT make a lot of money. From what I've seen, they'd be lucky to make more than $20 in any given day.

I guess the reason homelessness and poverty bother me like they do is because I grew up in a poverty-stricken family in the middle of an affluent neighborhood. I saw both the struggle just to survive and the way the neighbors turned up their noses at us for daring to be poor, claiming, like Steve and Blade like to, that we 'chose' to be poor. (My father did NOT choose to have his highly successful store stolen by his partner at gunpoint, nor did he choose to have the restaurant he opened afterward go under because of a multiple-year tourism crash. In 1975, his personal income was almost a half million per year thanks to owning a supermarket. In 1978, he was a security guard making minimum wage.) Hell, I've even been homeless myself on two different occasion.

So yeah, now that I'm NOT living in poverty or even remotely close, I am damned well going to turn around and do whatever it takes to reduce (or even, perhaps, someday END) it. No one should have to listen to their children scream due to hunger.

NO ONE

 

[Steve R.]

I guess the reason homelessness poverty bother me like they do is because I grew up in a poverty-stricken family in the middle of an affluent neighborhood. I saw both the struggle just to survive and the way the neighbors turned up their noses at us for daring to be poor, claiming, like Steve and Blade like to, that we 'chose' to be poor. (My father did NOT choose to have his highly successful store stolen by his partner at gunpoint, nor did he choose to have the restaurant he opened afterward go under because of a multiple-year tourism crash. In 1975, his personal income was almost a half million per year thanks to owning a supermarket. In 1978, he was a security guard making minimum wage.) Hell, I've even been homeless myself on two different occasion.

Once again you have made a derogatory mischaracterization of what others have said. I have never said that the poor have chosen to be poor. As you have pointed out, poverty can result from many external factors beyond the control of the individual, such as "a multiple-year tourism crash". Have a Merry Christmas and may we all look forward to a better new year.

 

[ColinEssex]

What is a "2 liter"?

What does "stat" actually mean? I notice doctors say it too in US hospital dramas.

Oh, Frothy can you also answer my question from earlier please? I'll remind you of it "a) Why is it necessary to differentiate between the "two middle eastern guys" and "other white folks"?

One more thing, it's a shame your father didn't have insurance or a police force who could catch this gun slinger robber.

Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Col

A "2-liter" is a size of soft drink sold in a plastic bottle that nominally holds two liters of liquid.

A doctor sometimes says "stat" as an abbreviation for something in Latin, but I must admit I've forgotten the exact word. What it means is "do it now and don't wait on it." It is probably overused, but in a hospital emergency room, it would imply that a person's life is in immediate danger and there is no time to waste.

 

[ColinEssex]

Col

A "2-liter" is a size of soft drink sold in a plastic bottle that nominally holds two liters of liquid.

A doctor sometimes says "stat" as an abbreviation for something in Latin, but I must admit I've forgotten the exact word. What it means is "do it now and don't wait on it." It is probably overused, but in a hospital emergency room, it would imply that a person's life is in immediate danger and there is no time to waste.

Interesting that in America you still sell petrol in gallons (even if an American gallon is not a gallon) and you sell Coke in metric litres, two litres would last me a fortnight.

Stat, I had a feeling was an abbreviated Latin word, just wasn't sure. In the UK doctors say please and thank you, the last thing they would say is an Americanism.

Have you any clue why Frothy would differentiate between middle eastern customers and white customers? I can only guess at a racist slant by singling out middle eastern customers rather than saying customers generally.
But we know that America is racist, hence the ban on Muslims entering the USA. The British prime minister is to take this up with Mr Obama.

Col

 

[Frothingslosh]

A doctor sometimes says "stat" as an abbreviation for something in Latin, but I must admit I've forgotten the exact word. What it means is "do it now and don't wait on it." It is probably overused, but in a hospital emergency room, it would imply that a person's life is in immediate danger and there is no time to waste.

It's short for 'statim', which is Latin for 'immediately'.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Interesting that in America you still sell petrol in gallons (even if an American gallon is not a gallon)

But it IS a gallon - just not an Imperial gallon. Just like we have pounds and ounces in different flavors (Avoirdupois vs. British vs. Troy), so we have multiple methods of measurement. It is perhaps an aside, but we at least still sell USA Wines in metric (750 ml) quantities - unless of course you buy the Gallo party pack that is 5 gallons (USA) to the box in a soft plastic disposable and ecologically safe dispenser pouch.

Honestly, I think the 2-liter soft drinks came about some years ago when Congress really tried HARD to get folks to go metric in preparation for one of those innumerable Free Trade agreements, and a few congressmen actually got voted out of office for being out-of-touch with their constituents on that and other issues. Not sure whether the straw that broke the camel's back here was the vote for metric measure or the vote for Free Trade agreements, but it was in there somewhere.

Thanks for the 'statim' translation and explanation, Frothingslosh. It has been literally 50 years since I took Latin in my high school. I remember a lot, but my vocabulary of Latin words has diminished considerably through non-use. These days, my languages all derive from computer language compilers and interpreters.

On the other hand, in a UK emergency room, they might not say 'stat' but they most certainly would add SOMETHING to indicate 'immediately' to a nurse.

 

[Frothingslosh]

I'm guessing it is used for clarity - in an emergency situation, you want to be both quick and extremely concise, and 'stat' covers both bases. It's the same reason every single sail, line, mast, and winch/pulley on a sailing vessel each has its own name.

Personally, I normally get by with RFN or 'immediately', depending on the crowd, but then, I'm not an ER doctor.

Also, I never learned Latin, just German. Had to look it up - you just got me curious about what it actually was short for.

 

[ColinEssex]

Frothy, I would be grateful if you could answer my question please. I'll remind you of it in case you have had a slip of the old memory, as you seem to have had recently.

a) Why is it necessary to differentiate between the "two middle eastern guys" and "other white folks"?

You see, I wonder if you always differentiate between coloured people and whites, almost as if they should not be grouped together.

Thanks

Col

 

[scott-atkinson]

a) Why is it necessary to differentiate between the "two middle eastern guys" and "other white folks"?

Col

Your not going to get an answer, time to let it go me thinks..

 

[Frothingslosh]

Your not going to get an answer, time to let it go me thinks..

No, he's not. I'm making an effort to no longer get caught up trying to have intelligent discussions with trolls and fanatics. As one group literally cannot comprehend that you might think differently from them and is utterly unwilling to have an actual conversation and the other exists for the sole purpose of pissing people off, any conversation with people in either group is pointless.

 

[ColinEssex]

Oh well, never mind. In the absence of a reply I'll just have to put it down to the American fear of foreigners- hence the ban on Muslims.

The necessity of singling out middle eastern people from anyone else indicates a subconscious fear, therefore it is necessary to segregate them from the normal psychos and freaks that roam the streets of the USA.

A good idea that Americans could use would be to have middle eastern people buses and clubs only, maybe get them all to live in reservations like Americans did with the red indians.

Col

 

[Alc]

Oh well, never mind. In the absence of a reply I'll just have to put it down to the American fear of foreigners- hence the ban on Muslims.

The necessity of singling out middle eastern people from anyone else indicates a subconscious fear, therefore it is necessary to segregate them from the normal psychos and freaks that roam the streets of the USA.

A good idea that Americans could use would be to have middle eastern people buses and clubs only, maybe get them all to live in reservations like Americans did with the red indians.

Col

Could arguably be applicable to certain forum posters, but hardly to Frothingslosh, given his well-documented political leanings and stated feelings toward immigrants, refugees, etc. Whatever the reason was, I doubt it was to make a point beyond the fact that those present were ethnically diverse and I'd bet a large sum of money on there being no intention on his(?) part to suggest that people from the Middle East (or anywhere else) are in some way "scary".

Probably best to give it a rest and move on, eh?

 

[Frothingslosh]

Could arguably be applicable to certain forum posters, but hardly to Frothingslosh, given his well-documented political leanings and stated feelings toward immigrants, refugees, etc. Whatever the reason was, I doubt it was to make a point beyond the fact that those present were ethnically diverse and I'd bet a large sum of money on there being no intention on his(?) part to suggest that people from the Middle East (or anywhere else) are in some way "scary".

Probably best to give it a rest and move on, eh?

ALC, I will go so far as to say that 'other' meant 'other than myself', and upon re-reading, I should have been more specific. I was simply indicating that the group in the pizza shop were ethnically and socially diverse.

It's rather amusing that our resident troll thinks I suddenly did a complete 180 after all the grief I've given our resident fascists about their beliefs that Muslims are pure evil and must either be barred from the US (SteveR) or exterminated (Murderboy). I'm going to write it up as him desperately, pathetically, attempting to troll me, as that seems to be his only goal in life these days. *shrug*

To be honest, I don't see how he got 'Middle-Easterners are evil' out of me pointing out the way those two fellows ignored the woman and her kids, just like virtually everyone else in the store did. Sounds like HE is the one focused on how Middle-Easterners are evil, not me.

In a nutshell, I'm not colorblind. I see ethnicity just fine, which is what you'd expect of someone who has lived most of his adult life in the hellholes where I have. I simply don't, as a general rule, CARE about it in my personal interactions.

Edit:

Also, let me just add that the fact that he has spent the last, what, 2 weeks attempting to find some fault in my post because he cannot accept that I'm a better person than he is has been VASTLY amusing. I actually expected him to start raging about how terrible America is because people like that woman and her kids were hungry, and instead he decided to go with "Frothingslosh is EVIL because he mentioned ethnicity!". I find that hilarious.

 

[ColinEssex]

Could arguably be applicable to certain forum posters, but hardly to Frothingslosh, given his well-documented political leanings and stated feelings toward immigrants, refugees, etc. Whatever the reason was, I doubt it was to make a point beyond the fact that those present were ethnically diverse and I'd bet a large sum of money on there being no intention on his(?) part to suggest that people from the Middle East (or anywhere else) are in some way "scary".

Probably best to give it a rest and move on, eh?

Actually, I wasn't talking about FrothyWhatshisname per se. I was generically referring to the American governments overreaction by banning entry to the USA for Muslims.
This in turn seems to have caused an over dramatic fear of middle eastern people by some American citizens, therefore necessitating the need to itemise different races when relating a story. I could be wrong of course, but that is the way it read to me.

Col

 

[Frothingslosh]

In fact, I find his obsession with me almost as hilarious as I do seeing this AT LEAST once after every one of my posts.

This message is hidden because ColinEssex is on your ignore list.

 

[ColinEssex]

ALC, I will go so far as to say that 'other' meant 'other than myself', and upon re-reading, I should have been more specific. I was simply indicating that the group in the pizza shop were ethnically and socially diverse.

It's rather amusing that our resident troll thinks I suddenly did a complete 180 after all the grief I've given our resident fascists about their beliefs that Muslims are pure evil and must either be barred from the US (SteveR) or exterminated (Murderboy). I'm going to write it up as him desperately, pathetically, attempting to troll me, as that seems to be his only goal in life these days. *shrug*

To be honest, I don't see how he got 'Middle-Easterners are evil' out of me pointing out the way those two fellows ignored the woman and her kids, just like virtually everyone else in the store did. Sounds like HE is the one focused on how Middle-Easterners are evil, not me.

In a nutshell, I'm not colorblind. I see ethnicity just fine, which is what you'd expect of someone who has lived most of his adult life in the hellholes where I have. I simply don't, as a general rule, CARE about it in my personal interactions.

Edit:

Also, let me just add that the fact that he has spent the last, what, 2 weeks attempting to find some fault in my post because he cannot accept that I'm a better person than he is has been VASTLY amusing. I actually expected him to start raging about how terrible America is because people like that woman and her kids were hungry, and instead he decided to go with "Frothingslosh is EVIL because he mentioned ethnicity!". I find that hilarious.

Strange post, can you indicate where I have said those claims you have made against me please? For example, where did I say you are evil because you mentioned ethnicity? Please try to keep within the facts and not make up comments to suit your weak argument.

Also, what woman and kids? You have lost me there.

Col