Israel

[AnthonyGerrard]

3 Jewish kids murdered and 1 Palestinian seemingly in direct revenge. Shameful and horrific for all.


Maybe we should enforce international law here?! ie at the very least stop Israel building , settling , annexing whatever we want to call it others land.





Maybe this is the elephant in the middle eastern room?!

 

[scott-atkinson]

Israel has always been the elephant in the Middle Eastern room ever since the state was set up after the war...

The Israelis believe they have a God given right to own land from the Arabs, and kinda vice versa, and friction and conflict ensues...

It's all rather sad really that we cannot simply live together in peace...

If we all worked together there are so many things as a global community that we can fix, famine, disease, cancer... and what do we all do, fight....

 

[Brianwarnock]

The West has never stopped or even censored Israel in anyway no matter what it does.

Brian

 

[Steve R.]

The Israelis believe they have a God given right to own land from the Arabs, and kinda vice versa, and friction and conflict ensues...

Well, Moses was directed to the land now called Israel. The problem, we have too many different groups claiming ownership over the same piece of land. Historically, it was ethic cleansing with the loser moving on to settle "new" territory. Today, the planet is occupied and the loser has nowhere to go. Hence continued conflict.

What has not been making the news is the continued "cleansing" of Christians in the Middle East with a consequent diaspora of the Christians. Christianity was founded in the Middle East, over the years they have become a persecuted minority. The West just twaddles its thumbs and lets the "cleansing" process continue.

Take a look at what is happening in Iraq. The US, an ostensibly Christian nation, has intervened (since Saddam Hussein) to keep the peace of an Islamic state. Now the Islamic community is involved in a civil war. As this progresses, the US may become even more involved. It makes no sense for the US to expend material, money, and bodies in an Islamic civil war, when the Islamic community persecutes Christians. US support of an Islamic state is a form of cultural suicide for the US.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Empires have come and gone, it does not mean that that the later generations cannot criticize current situations. Some "empires" still exist of course, the USA, AUSTRALIA, CANADA etc but they are not recognised as such, water has to be involved before acquired land is considered part of an empire.

And length of time especially if the new outbreeding the old has an effect too.

Brian

Edit I see Accessblaster has deleted the post that this was in response to, see the quote in post7

 

[Dick7Access]

Well, Moses was directed to the land now called Israel. The problem, we have too many different groups claiming ownership over the same piece of land. Historically, it was ethic cleansing with the loser moving on to settle "new" territory. Today, the planet is occupied and the loser has nowhere to go. Hence continued conflict.

What has not been making the news is the continued "cleansing" of Christians in the Middle East with a consequent diaspora of the Christians. Christianity was founded in the Middle East, over the years they have become a persecuted minority. The West just twaddles its thumbs and lets the "cleansing" process continue.

Take a look at what is happening in Iraq. The US, an ostensibly Christian nation, has intervened (since Saddam Hussein) to keep the peace of an Islamic state. Now the Islamic community is involved in a civil war. As this progresses, the US may become even more involved. It makes no sense for the US to expend material, money, and bodies in an Islamic civil war, when the Islamic community persecutes Christians. US support of an Islamic state is a form of cultural suicide for the US.

It would only make sense, if US had a Muslim president.

 

[scott-atkinson]

I really find it disingenuous when people criticize Israel, who occupy 20,600 square kilometers. In comparison to what the British Empire held at the height of its reign. The British controlled nearly ¼ on the entire land surface of the planet. Do you think the occupied feel like they got a fair deal?

Not bad for a little country the size of diddlysquat...

Shame we didn't keep them all...

 

[Brianwarnock]

Not bad for a little country the size of diddlysquat...

Shame we didn't keep them all...

And just think if the US was still ruled by us they might not have to go around armed to the teeth.

Brian

 

[Dick7Access]

And just think if the US was still ruled by us they might not have to go around armed to the teeth.

Brian

I would rater me armed to the teeth, than not have any say, although it's getting there. It is no wonder that there is talk of another revolution. I personally don't think that is the way to go quite yet.

 

[scott-atkinson]

I would rater me armed to the teeth, than not have any say, although it's getting there. It is no wonder that there is talk of another revolution. I personally don't think that is the way to go quite yet.

Being part of the Modern British Empire is a far cry from the days of old, you would be better off being part of our Empire now..

Just think how more rich and fulfilled your lives would be...

 

[Dick7Access]

Being part of the Modern British Empire is a far cry from the days of old, you would be better off being part of our Empire now..

Just think how more rich and fulfilled your lives would be...

I see the grin and the rolling eyes so I am hoping that I interpreted you message as a little bit of satire.

 

[Dick7Access]

Think of how much fun we could have. A 2nd Tea Party? Oh wait we have that

Actually we have many Tea Parties. BTW Blas, I know that you now that. I only said it for those that dunk us all in the same cup. It is amazing that the left say we should not paint all Muslims with the same brush, and I agree, but they then turn around and accuse all gun advocate, tea party, conservatives of being of one ilk. So is life.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Back on the subject -

Israel is thinking of sending troops on the ground into Gaza. Because they are under attack from rockets.

But my understanding is only Israel occupies Palestinian land - not the other way round, and only Palestinians have died in the latest air/rocket attacks.

Israel seems less the victim to me?

Perhaps when the holocaust turns into history rather than living experience, then we can see Israel as the perpertrators and not the victims.

 

[Alc]

I openly, not proudly, admit that until fairly recently I knew nothing about Israel, beyond (roughly) where it's located. I didn't know the history, etc. at all.

Now I've taken the time to do a little research into it, I have to say I don't understand why America seems to let them get away with far more than any other country ever would, in terms of open aggression, without facing any real criticism. I understand it's done under the name of defending themselves (and I can totally see why they'd be more than a little paranoid, given their history).

What I don't understand, and would be glad if anyone could tell me -without launching into the whole 'The Left are terrible because...', 'The Right are worse because...' - is why the US usually seems to defend whatever they do?

This isn't a dig at America, I just don't get way Israel seems to be 'forgiven' more readily by the US than other countries. I could understand it if it was always the UK that stood up for them, after 'giving' them the land, they might feel some duty to defend their behaviour (like sticking up for your kids if they behave badly), but why the US?

Or is that just the impression I get from the media? Does America historically dislike Israel? Is it, in reality, apathetic toward the place? I live outside the US, so have no idea what the average person thinks.

Can anyone enlighten me?

 

[Frothingslosh]

The primary reason the US has backed Israel no matter what is simply because Israel has generally been the US's only truly solid ally in the Middle East. When it was set up, the US helped them get the country up and running and sold military equipment to the country, getting a rock-solid ally out of the deal. Because of that, the rest of the arab nations (who saw the move as theft of land from the Palestinians already living there) have generally been suspicious of us, with our only nominal allies among them being Egypt (off and on) and Iran (until the Shah got booted).

The political maneuvering between the US and USSR certainly didn't help matters any, either.

That said, the US has criticized Israel pretty sharply off the record, but will likely never slap Israel down for its actions unless they actually either use a WMD (the handful of nukes they claim they don't have) or start massacres.

And unfortunately, the killing is likely to go on forever - too many people there on both sides hate each other with a holy passion and want nothing less than the other side exterminated.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

And unfortunately, the killing is likely to go on forever - too many people there on both sides hate each other with a holy passion and want nothing less than the other side exterminated.

Whilst that is probably so - a move by Israel back within it own border, and stopping building on Palestinian land as demanded by international law should be enforced.

If they are still under attack - then they can use arms to defend themselves.

At the moment they are the aggressor in terms of Hamas (understandable) , civilian deaths, land grabs and blockades.

The Palestinians are the victims - and even the moderates have great cause to feel aggrieved , angry and to defend themselves and their land. It drives many to what would otherwise be extremists, which in return comes to our front door.

Rather than allies - they are the source of the biggest dangers to us. Apart from being morally repugnant.

 

[Alc]

Thanks for the explanation. Stategic positioning does explain it, I was thinking along religious lines and couldn't make sense of it.

 

[Dick7Access]

Whilst that is probably so - a move by Israel back within it own border, and stopping building on Palestinian land as demanded by international law should be enforced.

If they are still under attack - then they can use arms to defend themselves.

At the moment they are the aggressor in terms of Hamas (understandable) , civilian deaths, land grabs and blockades.

The Palestinians are the victims - and even the moderates have great cause to feel aggrieved , angry and to defend themselves and their land. It drives many to what would otherwise be extremists, which in return comes to our front door.

Rather than allies - they are the source of the biggest dangers to us. Apart from being morally repugnant.

I am not reputing anything you have posted as I am not up on what is going on over there. There is so much going on in the US that is morally repugnant to me, I can't keep up with all of it. What land is Israel trying to take over, and what have they done that is morally repugnant ?

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

I am not reputing anything you have posted as I am not up on what is going on over there. There is so much going on in the US that is morally repugnant to me, I can't keep up with all of it. What land is Israel trying to take over, and what have they done that is morally repugnant ?

Israel occupies against all international law much of Palestine. It blockades even basic medical supplies etc from much else of it.

On land it occupies it bulldozes the houses of the legitimate residents whilst illegally building settlement for Israelis.

Palestinians want to fight the occupation - they do so with stones, and Hamas does so with rockets.

Stones are answered by Israel with guns, ineffective rockets are answered with one of the worlds most powerful military. Deaths of Palestinian's outway that of Israel 100:1

Israel hides behind self defence (how that excuses ethnic cleansing and land grabs - I am not sure) and accusations of anti Semitism for those who complain.

I'm on the victims side no matter who they are.

 

[Frothingslosh]

a move by Israel back within it own border, and stopping building on Palestinian land as demanded by international law should be enforced.

I agree with this entirely. I also believe it will never happen unless there is a DRASTIC change in the outlook of the Israeli population at large. Unfortunately, with the ongoing attacks (by both sides), there is about a snowball's chance in a blast furnace of that happening.