Lucy Letby - UK's most prolific child killer (1 Viewer)

[Uncle Gizmo]

This piece on the BBC website authored by reporter Judith Moritz is excellent. Well worth a read

What I learned about Lucy Letby after 10 months in court

The nurse was questioned for nearly 60 hours - the BBC's Judith Moritz watched it all.

www.bbc.com

 

[Jon]

She confessed in her private notes. She said, "I killed them on purpose." That is enough for me. Her friends are in denial, saying they will never believe it unless she confessed herself. Quite how they square that with her confession in private is beyond me.

 

[ColinEssex]

Jon, Americans are not interested in a serial killer of children. To them it is as interesting as tossing a sweet wrapper away. Death means nothing to Americans, yet fortunately we have sensitivity and compassion to be shocked and not treat it as a routine event. That is one big difference between our cultures. Life is precious in the UK but tossed aside and discarded in the USA. Over the years, how many Americans have said they would kill an intruder? Even the super Pat has said so. It's unbelievable.
Col

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Jon, Americans are not interested in a serial killer of children. To them it is as interesting as tossing a sweet wrapper away. Death means nothing to Americans, yet fortunately we have sensitivity and compassion to be shocked and not treat it as a routine event. That is one big difference between our cultures. Life is precious in the UK but tossed aside and discarded in the USA. Over the years, how many Americans have said they would kill an intruder? Even the super Pat has said so. It's unbelievable.
Col

Oi, Colin mate!

Now, I've had a gander at your recent poetic musings about our friends across the pond. A bit of a sweeping generalization, ain't it? I mean, it's almost like you've been guzzling a pint or two of bitterness, perhaps because of that thread that went missing. Now, I've had my fair share of rants – some on stage, others in the grand theatre of life – but even I know there's a line between playful jest and just being a tad malicious. Let's not get our knickers in a twist here. Before you let your fingers dance on the keyboard, maybe take a moment. Breathe. Think. And ask yourself, "Am I adding a touch of magic or just muddying the waters?" Keep it cheeky, but let's not lose our heads, eh?

 

[conception_native_0123]

Life is precious in the UK but tossed aside and discarded in the USA.

oh BS. but look who's talking...

 

[ColinEssex]

Oi, Colin mate!

Now, I've had a gander at your recent poetic musings about our friends across the pond. A bit of a sweeping generalization, ain't it?

Yes, I agree it is a bit of generalisation. (Spelt with an 's' correctly) my apologies for commenting on the impression the USA is painted on the UK news and in the press and in films made in the USA.
Col

 

[ColinEssex]

oh BS. but look who's talking...

I refer you to my previous post.
Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Life is precious in the UK but tossed aside and discarded in the USA. Over the years, how many Americans have said they would kill an intruder? Even the super Pat has said so. It's unbelievable.

First, Col, we really DO value life here. The number of people who protest in front of abortion clinics told that story. The number of people who protest in front of prisons when a death penalty is scheduled also tell that story. The number of people who push for states to abandon their laws that would impose the death penalty are another thread to the same tale.

But as to killing an intruder? We value life here, but first and foremost we value our OWN lives. An intruder might be looking to steal. But all too many cases these days have that intruder eliminating any possible witnesses before leaving. Which is why if push comes to shove, I'll be shoving someone into the next life with extremely limited qualms.

That's one difference between the US and the UK. When it comes to taking care of business of that particular kind, we don't wait for the police to arrive (with a potential backlog of hours in many areas). We handle our own business and let the police clear up the aftermath.

 

[AngelSpeaks]

What a monster. Each parent of a murdered child should be allowed some time alone with her to do whatever they want.

 

[Jon]

There is a big debate in the UK over how far you can go towards protecting yourself against intruders in your home. I veer more towards the American model rather than the UK one, although perhaps not all the way. It seems that the burglars over here have more rights than the homeowners. Its a bit like squatters rights, where the squatter seems more empowered than the homeowner!

Quite how you are expected to know how far the intruder is prepared to go, and therefore your appropriate response is quite beyond me. What if they corner you in a room? You could fear for your life but if you took their life, they would say, "How would you know they were going to kill you?" You only know when they attempt it and then its too late to take action. The burglar, by their own actions have put you in legal jeopardy, where the chance of you of you making a criminal mistake is very high indeed. Surely the burglar should be taking the vast majority of the responsibility for imposing this on you, let alone the risk to your property and life. Lock 'em all up!

 

[Pat Hartman]

It seems that the burglars over here have more rights than the homeowners. Its a bit like squatters rights, where the squatter seems more empowered than the homeowner!

You are following our Biden model or perhaps he is following yours. We currently have a good samaritan who NY is trying to prosecute because he beat up the guy who was beating up a woman on the subway. It's all on video and they are still trying to prosecute the savior.

 

[NauticalGent]

What an evil bitch...

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Since Jon furthered the ColinEssex discussion, I will clarify a bit more to offer the USA side of this discussion.

We have fifty-one sets of laws that have to be considered - one federal and fifty state laws. Fortunately, as long as you don't actually live on a state line, only the federal and ONE of the sets of state laws need to be considered. However, there ARE folks in the city of Texarkana who live on the Texas / Arkansas border. And Kansas City straddles the states of Kansas and Missouri. I don't even want to contemplate how THAT works.

Just about every state allows armed self-defense in the case where you are confronted by an armed individual who appears to be aiming at you. It is always presumed that a agitated person with a gun has nefarious intent. It doesn't matter that the person's intent might have been robbery rather than actually attacking you. The immediacy of the situation doesn't give you time to decide, so you shoot and be done with it. However, the case is different when a person illegally enters your home.

In the USA, it is a matter of state-level rather than national-level law as to how you may react to a burglar who succeeds in getting into your home. Many states pass laws - and my home state of Louisiana is one of them - that automatically allows the home-owners to PRESUME that the burglar's presence IS a threat to their lives, and that the immediate nature of this circumstance does not give you time to determine the burglar's actual intent. Therefore, you MAY choose to shoot the burglar as a matter of self defense. This "shoot the burglar" law essentially gives the home-owner an instantly assumed legal defense even if it later turns out that the burglar was in fact unarmed.

Some states allow what is called the "castle" doctrine - "A man's home is his castle" - and therefore you may defend your castle. Some states take the variation of "stand your ground" - meaning that you don't have to run from a burglar when in your own home, you may defend yourself. There are other variations. Many states take a phrase from our Declaration of Independence and encode it into law, speaking of the "inalienable right to life, liberty" and then they finish with a few enumerated actions such as "acquiring property" and "conducting business." In other words, they take things from Common Law as being protected actions of the citizens. If you have an inalienable right to life, then their legal systems recognizes your right to defend that life if you feel threatened.

Equally, some states have a "must retreat if possible" law that severely limits the implied right of self-defense. Even Louisiana law doesn't allow me to chase the burglar who turns and runs out the door when I show up with a gun in hand. When the assailant is fleeing, the "exigent circumstances" are no longer assumed. Even the states with a "retreat if possible" law recognize that if you are in your own home that you might feel cornered and thus have no way to retreat.

The United States Constitution implies but doesn't actually state that there is a right of self-defense. However, a US Supreme Court case ("District of Columbia v. Heller") states that it is a recognized implied right. The right of self-defense is explicitly enumerated in some state constitutions, though not all. Other state and federal precedents exist that are generally consistent with the presumption of a right of self-defense.

 

[ColinEssex]

What a monster. Each parent of a murdered child should be allowed some time alone with her to do whatever they want.

So you advocate the revenge scenario. Let's say the parents of the 6 babies each get 10 minutes alone with her, that's 2 hours of revenge beating. It's probable the victim would die from wounds inflicted by the parents. Should they be done for collective murder?

A few years ago, a farmer who lived alone shot and killed a teenage burglar. He reported it to the police and was tried and found guilty of manslaughter and spent at least (I think) 7 or 8 years in prison. The teenager was unarmed but the farmer couldn't be sure he didn't have a knife, so shot him. The farmer was protecting his property.
Just to say most farmers own legally a shotgun for vermin on their farm.

Col

 

[Pat Hartman]

And the intruder was vermin.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The teenager was unarmed but the farmer couldn't be sure he didn't have a knife, so shot him.

We cannot be responsible for unreasonable laws in another country. I'm with Pat on this one. You use shotguns to remove vermin.

 

[ColinEssex]

And the intruder was vermin.

Not necessarily. Although I won't put forward my opinion as you will misinterpret it, and i dont want to inflame you inadvertently. Let's just say Americans do things differently to the UK.
Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Let's just say Americans do things differently to the UK.

And as my French ancestors on my paternal grandmother's side would say, "Vive le difference."

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

What an evil bitch...

I didn't know @ColinEssex had transgendered into a woman, thanks for the heads up, or should I have said tits up!

 

[NauticalGent]

You're the only one who got it. I was waiting for someone to say anything so I could respond with "OH Lucy, yeah, she's pretty evil too...!" But no one bit...