Martin-Luther-King. Just lipservice or progression?

[dan-cat]

We don't get it here anyway, what benefits we supposedly get have been paid for and their benefits reduced over the years unless you have privately funde healthcare, your'e stuffed anyway

Your blood pressure goes up because of the low quality of the service, my blood pressure goes up because of the high quantity of the impending bill

On racism, there is plenty of it in my hometown. There's no excuse for it but I guess the reason is because it's small, remote and the winds of change blow slow here. A bit like that movie "The Village".

 

[Rabbie]

We have had 300 years to correct our injustices; you on the other hand have had a millennium. We have gone from slavery to having a black president in very short amount of time. So please tell the world when the next minority King or Queen will be? Or Prime Minister? Or will we have to wait another millennium?

Technically Barack Obama is not black - he is mixed race. As the UK monarchy is hereditary we will have to wait until someone in the line of succession marries someone from a minority race.

No sign at present of a minority PM either but that's democracy

 

[Adam Caramon]

Everything being equal, a black person has a higher chance of getting employed by a large corporation than a white person.

That sounds like an unfounded theory.

I find it incredible how some people can react so harshly to questions about their country and culture. Almost as if they are guilty of trying to hide something.

Most people actually don't. They respond to the tone of the message. As an example:

"How have things gone in the USA over those 43 years? Yes the segregated queues and the different buses have gone, but have things really changed?"

If you truly were interested in what others say, what is the need of the second sentence? You're asking a question, which seemed to be a fine one. But then with your second sentence you're implying something. That implication plus the general knowledge of your typical behavior puts some people on the defensive.

It would be like if I said "I know the UK's military was terrible back during WW2, with the US having to save them and all. Are they much better now?" It would be clear from that sort of statement that I would be trying to instigate, and the question is just an add-on in attempt to mask the insult.

I think what Adam was trying to say is that he knew who initiated the thread just by reading the title.

That's almost word-for-word what I did say.

 

[dan-cat]

Most people actually don't.

Only a very few do nowadays, that's why he is so bored.

 

[Vassago]

That sounds like an unfounded theory.

Far from unfounded. I think it's a pretty general belief actually in a corporate world where affirmative action and HR issues come into play. There are actually laws in many states that require corporations over a certain number of individuals to employ non-white men at a certain percentage, with no requirement in the other direction. Many companies prefer to avoid State Attorneys looking into their employment records to make sure they are following such laws. They will often go with the easiest route.

The same can be said of salary. There is a general consensus based on studies that blacks are still employed at a lower salary level than whites for a similar job. This can lead to a more desirable option as well for many corporations, with all else but color being equal.

 

[Thales750]

Interestingly, The USA is the most racially integrated nation in the world.

And I live in the most racially integrated part of the country.

My considerably large group of friends is mixed from every walk of life and many different types of races and professions.

The general consensus of my immigrant friends is that no other country in the world is as good at handling multiple cultures, ethnics and races as the USA.

Col, do try to have more accurate facts when you make your blanket insults. As far as we have yet to go, no one else has come close to being as advanced as we are in this area.

Personally when I read your insults, it makes me wonder if you are envious or something.

And as far as European economy being dragged down by the US’s, well maybe those European bankers should have exercised a little more discretion when they invested in the largest housing bubble in history.

It makes you wonder how a Cambridge educated banker could be short sighted enough to ignore the fact that triple A rated bonds based on mortgages, in a market that was inflating 6 times faster than wages; was probably a bad idea.

Maybe they should have attended American schools. The last time I looked the American banking sector has done a much better job of shoring up the failures than the ones across the pond. Yes ours are still not in the clear, but they did a hell of a lot better than ya’lls.

 

[Rich]

Your blood pressure goes up because of the low quality of the service, my blood pressure goes up because of the high quantity of the impending bill

Mine's up anyway, the only fortunate thing is that I don't have to pay for the heart surgeon or doctors etc. to investigate the causes (yet). I just knew I should have given up the fags 40 years ago

 

[Rich]

Interestingly, The USA is the most racially integrated nation in the world.

And I live in the most racially integrated part of the country.

My considerably large group of friends is mixed from every walk of life and many different types of races and professions.

The general consensus of my immigrant friends is that no other country in the world is as good at handling multiple cultures, ethnics and races as the USA.

Col, do try to have more accurate facts when you make your blanket insults. As far as we have yet to go, no one else has come close to being as advanced as we are in this area.

Personally when I read your insults, it makes me wonder if you are envious or something.

And as far as European economy being dragged down by the US’s, well maybe those European bankers should have exercised a little more discretion when they invested in the largest housing bubble in history.

It makes you wonder how a Cambridge educated banker could be short sighted enough to ignore the fact that triple A rated bonds based on mortgages, in a market that was inflating 6 times faster than wages; was probably a bad idea.

Maybe they should have attended American schools. The last time I looked the American banking sector has done a much better job of shoring up the failures than the ones across the pond. Yes ours are still not in the clear, but they did a hell of a lot better than ya’lls.

Let's face it, the whole western world's in a mess and nobody seems to know how to get out of it, pointing fingers and attaching blame isn't going to cure it

 

[Adam Caramon]

Far from unfounded. I think it's a pretty general belief actually in a corporate world where affirmative action and HR issues come into play.

I've heard people make the claim several times, but I haven't seen any statistics to back it up. The fact that certain news sources tend to push these ideas leave me skeptical.

There are actually laws in many states that require corporations over a certain number of individuals to employ non-white men at a certain percentage, with no requirement in the other direction.

Do you know which states these are? I'd be interested in reading that.

Let's face it, the whole western world's in a mess and nobody seems to know how to get out of it, pointing fingers and attaching blame isn't going to cure it

Well put.

 

[Jacob Mathai]

Now let us talk about equal opportunity in UK. I remember seeing a posting from a guy in UK. As an administrator in the NHS, he would not hire any women because they took time off for family reasons.
Anyone remember this guy?

 

[Alc]

Interestingly, The USA is the most racially integrated nation in the world.

Based on what? Is there a racial integration index?

 

[Alc]

Now let us talk about equal opportunity in UK. I remember seeing a posting from a guy in UK. As an administrator in the NHS, he would not hire any women because they took time off for family reasons.
Anyone remember this guy?

Yes, but he's not around so much these days.

 

[Thales750]

[/SIZE][/FONT]
Based on what? Is there a racial integration index?

Uh yeah, it's called a census.

Do the math, the entire nation was built on immagration.

 

[Alc]

Uh yeah, it's called a census.

Do the math, the entire nation was built on immagration.

Resiting the urge to lower myself to the level of your 'uh yeah' comment, I'll just point out that a national census relates to the country in which it was completed. Unless you then compared that census against those carried out by all other countries, you have no basis for your previous statement.

Also, yes, the USA was built on immigration but so were Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and many other places. Where's your evidence that these countries are all less racially integrated?

 

[Adam Caramon]

Resiting the urge to lower myself to the level of your 'uh yeah' comment, I'll just point out that a national census relates to the country in which it was completed. Unless you then compared that census against those carried out by all other countries, you have no basis for your previous statement.

This is not a jab at Thales, but I have noticed people are doing that more and more. They believe something to be true, so they will make a statement with no facts to back it up (or, with their little supported interpretation of facts). When you then ask them for the facts that they are using to back up their statement, they will tell you it is common knowlege, to google it, or that they don't have time to point it out for you.

Opinions are all well and good, but they are still just opinions, and don't ( or at least, shouldn't) carry the same weight as facts.

 

[Alc]

This is not a jab at Thales, but I have noticed people are doing that more and more. They believe something to be true, so they will make a statement with no facts to back it up (or, with their little supported interpretation of facts). When you then ask them for the facts that they are using to back up their statement, they will tell you it is common knowlege, to google it, or that they don't have time to point it out for you.

Opinions are all well and good, but they are still just opinions, and don't ( or at least, shouldn't) carry the same weight as facts.

Thanks for that. Yes, this sort of thing
"it is common knowlege, to google it, or that they don't have time to point it out for you"
shows up all the time around here.

Noone's suggesting that the US wasn't founded on immigration, I just wondered what the evidence is that it's the most racially integrated country on Earth.

I thought that, in many cases, there were predominantly black/asian/white/hispanic areas (as there are in most Western countries). That being the case, how would a national census prove that the different races in the society in question were well integrated as opposed to existing in many, racially segregated groups?

 

[ColinEssex]

Now let us talk about equal opportunity in UK. I remember seeing a posting from a guy in UK. As an administrator in the NHS, he would not hire any women because they took time off for family reasons.
Anyone remember this guy?

Hmmm, you need to get it right. I had a staff of 148 clerical staff ranging from receptionists to secretaries to filing clerks. 98% of my staff were female and the average age was 22 - as a result, there was always up to 4 or 5 on maternity leave.
In the NHS, there was no maternity leave cover (like a temp) so, as the preggers girl was being paid still, so, the others had to cover her work, this caused great resentment.

Therefore, when I interviewed, I did give preference to an unmarried girl if it was a close run decision who to appoint.

Another thing, as this was in Leicester where the population has a high percentage of Indian and Pakistani people, I would also give preference to them as they were much better workers - like timekeeping, loyalty, less sickness, more polite etc. than some white girls.

My objective was to keep sickness and absence to a minimum and to avoid the bitching that occured when people went on maternity leave.

Can I qualify all that by saying that I would use those guidelines only if there was a very small difference between candidates. I would employ a married girl of child bearing age if she was by far the best candidate. But I would have preferred not to.

Col

 

[Vassago]

Hmmm, you need to get it right. I had a staff of 148 clerical staff ranging from receptionists to secretaries to filing clerks. 98% of my staff were female and the average age was 22 - as a result, there was always up to 4 or 5 on maternity leave.
In the NHS, there was no maternity leave cover (like a temp) so, as the preggers girl was being paid still, so, the others had to cover her work, this caused great resentment.

Therefore, when I interviewed, I did give preference to an unmarried girl if it was a close run decision who to appoint.

Another thing, as this was in Leicester where the population has a high percentage of Indian and Pakistani people, I would also give preference to them as they were much better workers - like timekeeping, loyalty, less sickness, more polite etc. than some white girls.

My objective was to keep sickness and absence to a minimum and to avoid the bitching that occured when people went on maternity leave.

Can I qualify all that by saying that I would use those guidelines only if there was a very small difference between candidates. I would employ a married girl of child bearing age if she was by far the best candidate. But I would have preferred not to.

Col

This ideal seems racist all in itself. Your generalization of Indian and Pakistani people sort of falls into this exact bill. It implies there isn't anyone else of any other culture/ethnicity who fall above them in these areas.

I'm not even going to touch the woman part.

I think there is a tendency for most people in general to make racist and sexist assumptions without even realizing we are doing so. Believing that a stripper must have "daddy issues" or be on meth instead of doing her job because she actually enjoys it falls into this line. I have known strippers who are professional, clean, and loved their jobs. Certain expected learned behaviors and attitudes keep us ignorant and condition us to feel this way. If someone doesn't look at things with an open mind and try to stray from these assumptions, then they can stay ignorant and never see things from another point of view.

 

[Thales750]

Logic actually would dictate the answer. After the original colonies were formed; which country had the largest percentage population growth from immigrations?

The gap is so wide that it almost does not bear examination.

Throughout the later part of the 19th and the entire 20th centuries The US imported more people from the rest of the world.

In Canada, Australia and New Zealand the original settlers still make up the majority of the people. In the US that is no longer the case. Many people from Europe migrated here in the earlier years, but in the last decades it has grown to include many from India, China, Korea, Vietnam, and all over Africa.
Not to mention our very diverse population of natives. Including Polynesians in Hawaii and various tribes in Alaska.
In Houston the population speaks 132 different languages; in Northern Virginia where I live, the diversity is so extensive that we no longer have clear majorities.

 

[ColinEssex]

This ideal seems racist all in itself. Your generalization of Indian and Pakistani people sort of falls into this exact bill. It implies there isn't anyone else of any other culture/ethnicity who fall above them in these areas.

You need to remember that this was the 1980's I'm referring to, and I did clarify it by saying I would appoint the best candidate irrespective of race age or marital status. The guidelines I mentioned only came into play in tight decisions. Sometimes of course, I was wrong in what I decided.

I'm not even going to touch the woman part.

Best not too! The worst thing that happened to cause more unrest and annoyance in managers is the maternity leave legislation. If you are not allowed any temps to cover then things get a bit rocky for the rest of the staff.

There should be no maternity leave or maternity pay. It was the bane of my life as an NHS manager of a large department. If people want babies then they should leave their job when the time comes and fund it all themselves. If they can't afford it then tough luck honey - use contraception or don't do it.

Col