Misleading Grouping Claim

[Uncle Gizmo]

Critique of Microsoft Access Rectangle Object Documentation - Misleading Grouping Claim​

Hi all,

I’ve noticed an issue in the Microsoft Access documentation for the Rectangle object (Microsoft Learn, dated 09/13/2021) that I believe is misleading and could confuse developers. I’d appreciate your thoughts on this!

The Problematic Text​

The documentation states:

"You can move a rectangle and the controls in it as a single unit by dragging the mouse pointer diagonally across the entire rectangle to select all the controls. The entire selection can then be moved to a new position."

This suggests that a Rectangle control acts as a "container" that groups controls within its boundaries, allowing you to move them by dragging the Rectangle. However, this is not accurate and misrepresents standard Access behaviour.

Why It’s Misleading​

1. No Unique Grouping Functionality: The described behaviour is just standard group selection in Form Design View. You can select any set of controls (inside or outside a Rectangle) by dragging a selection box around them or Shift-clicking them, then move them as a unit. The Rectangle doesn’t create a special grouping link.
2. Implied Container Role: The phrase "controls in it" implies the Rectangle is a container, like a Tab Control or Option Group. However:
   
   • Dragging a Rectangle alone (by clicking its border) doesn’t move controls inside it unless you explicitly select them together, which works the same for any controls, Rectangle or not.
   • In VBA, a control inside a Rectangle has the form as its .Parent, not the Rectangle. For example, I ran this code in Microsoft Access 2021 MSO (Version 2506 Build 16.0.18925.20076) 64-bit:
     
     MsgBox Me.Text6.Parent.Name
     It returned the form’s name (e.g., "Form3"), confirming the Rectangle isn’t a programmatic parent.
3. Sequence Misconception: Some sources suggest drawing the Rectangle first, then placing controls inside it, creates a grouping link. I tested this in Access 2021, and it doesn’t work—controls don’t move with the Rectangle unless explicitly selected, regardless of drawing order.

Testing the Behaviour​

In Access 2021, I did the following in Form Design View:

1. Drew a Rectangle control.
2. Added a Text Box and Label inside its boundaries.
3. Clicked and dragged the Rectangle’s border—only the Rectangle moved, not the controls.
4. Dragged a selection box over the Rectangle and controls, then moved them—they moved together, but this is standard group selection, not a Rectangle-specific feature.

This confirms the Rectangle is just a visual element, not a container for grouping controls.

Why This Matters​

For developers, especially those new to Access, this documentation could lead to confusion by suggesting a Rectangle has special grouping capabilities. In reality, it’s just a visual control, and the described behaviour is standard group selection available for any set of controls.

Call to Action​

Has anyone else noticed this misleading wording in the Rectangle documentation? Have you tried using a Rectangle as a "container" based on this guidance, only to find it’s just group selection? I’m considering submitting feedback via the Microsoft Access Feedback portal to request a revision, perhaps:

"A Rectangle is a visual control for drawing shapes. To move it with nearby controls, select them together using a selection box or Shift-click, as with any group of controls."

What do you think? Any similar issues with Access documentation you’ve encountered? Let’s discuss!

 

[DHookom]

I don’t find it misleading. I don’t think it mentions “container” and it accurately describes “select all the controls”. I’m happy with the help text as you quoted it and have always expected the behavior.

 

[isladogs]

Whilst I understand your point of view, I'm inclined to agree with Duane.
However, if you feel strongly about it, I would suggest a better approach than the Feedback Portal

As I've recently discovered, anyone can suggest edits to a MS Learn page. To do so, click on the ellipsis (...) then click Edit
This will take you to a GitHub page where you can suggest changes to the text.
Whatever you enter won't change the page directly. It will be reviewed and if accepted, the content will be updated.
You will receive feedback from GitHub on whether your suggestions are accepted or rejected.

Hope that helps.

Coincidentally, I'm about to suggest a number of edits to form controls & events . . . but this isn't one of them

 

[June7]

I agree that rectangle is not a "container" and this selection of controls is no different for any "group".
I am not sure users of any level will be misled, however, perhaps better wording instead of "in it" would be "bounded by it".

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

I agree that rectangle is not a "container"

I have some code which turns a rectangle into a container...

And you can use the same code with an option group frame and then if a control is selected in the option group frame it passes the value into the option group frame value and the bound field.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I think you are reading more into the rectangle object than is there. The documentation doesn't say it is a container. The documentation says "You can move a rectangle and the controls in it as a single unit by dragging the mouse pointer diagonally across the entire rectangle to select all the controls. The entire selection can then be moved to a new position." So it doesn't tell you that if you click on the outline of the container that it will move the objects visually within the rectangle.

The tab control is the closest thing to what you think the rectangle object should be. When you move the tab control by selecting its outline, all the controls "on" it move with the tab control. But the tab control is not a parent to any controls on it.

 

[sonic8]

"You can move a rectangle and the controls in it as a single unit by dragging the mouse pointer diagonally across the entire rectangle to select all the controls. The entire selection can then be moved to a new position."

This suggests that a Rectangle control acts as a "container" that groups controls within its boundaries, allowing you to move them by dragging the Rectangle. However, this is not accurate and misrepresents standard Access behaviour.

Strictly speaking the documentation is correct and precise.
If you actually deal with an container control, its child controls will be on the container control, not in it. - Microsoft is using this terminology consistently.
I agree that the wording in the documentation has some potential to mislead an inexperienced reader, but, as the very same sentence includes instructions to handle the operation correctly, I don't think this is a major issue.

To improve the it, I would change the documentation text so say "within its boundaries" instead of "in it".

Has anyone else noticed this misleading wording in the Rectangle documentation? Have you tried using a Rectangle as a "container" based on this guidance, only to find it’s just group selection?

I've tried to use the Rectangle as container multiple times. This had nothing to do with the documentation but was my own intuitive and incorrect assumption.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

I've tried to use the Rectangle as container multiple times

Gemini 2.5 pro told me that rectangles in the past did operate as containers but it was phased out around about access to 2007... I ignored it as an hallucination, but your assumption that they could be used as containers may have some merit... It might be worth checking up on!

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

I've tried to use the Rectangle as container multiple times

As I mentioned, I developed some code to turn a rectangle into a container... There's no link between the actual controls meaning you cannot drag the rectangle and move the controls within it, unless of course you use multi-select!

But here's the thing, I wondered if instead of using a rectangle I could use an option group frame to contain the controls? I removed all of the option buttons from the option group frame and replace them with command buttons and with some VBA coding (I think I used a class) I created an option group in which you could use command buttons with images on... With this method you could have nice looking checkbox images, faces, characters or anything you want to denote the option selected.. It would switch between true and false in other words two different images, one denoting TRUE & one FALSE... any images you wanted...

It also links to the field that the option group frame was bound to, to maintain the data in the database...

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

When you move the tab control by selecting its outline, all the controls "on" it move with the tab control. But the tab control is not a parent to any controls on it.

The controls are actually on a Tab control page not the actual Tab control...

And the Tab control page is the parent of the controls on it, and the parent of the Tab control page is the actual Tab control object.

 

[Pat Hartman]

The controls are actually on a Tab control page not the actual Tab control...

Some of the controls are on a specific page but not all. In fact, you have to be very careful when adding new controls to ensure that they end up on a specific page rather than on the tab control itself.

The tab control is not the parent of the controls. You can tell this by how the controls are referenced. All the controls, regardless of which tab they appear on are children of the FORM, not of the tab control. This is unlike the subform control. The subform control is a container and so the controls on the subform are referenced via the subform control which is always included in the name of a control when it is referenced from outside of its own code module. When you select the outline of the subform control, everything in it moves with it.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Misleading Grouping Claim​

I agree in that it's very nuanced wording and indeed can be interpreted either way...

But this is the killer:-
"You can move a rectangle and the controls in it as a single unit"

Although that's technically true, the correct description would be you can move the rectangle and the controls in it by using the multi-select facility... Just drag diagonally.... Etc. That points you to the use of the built in functionality of MS Access without the ambiguity of suggesting the rectangle is somehow associated with the controls within it... It is not, the rectangle is just a visual aid to identify a group of controls....

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

ensure that they end up on a specific page rather than on the tab control itself.

The only place you can place the controls is on a Tab control page --- The Tab control object itself does not have any areas where you can add controls to it. If you have a control that appears to be on the actual Tab control object, it's probably on the form underneath, and showing through the Tab Control....

 

[Pat Hartman]

Trust me, you can add a control to a tab control and have it visible on ALL tab pages.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Trust me, you can add a control to a tab control and have it visible on ALL tab pages.

See this Post:-

Tabs - controls showing on all tabs

Hello, I am using access 2007 and have a basic form with a tab control with 2 tabs. My problem is that some of the labels I have created on tab 1 are showing on tab 2 and I cannot see how to stop this! What do i need to do to keep controls i create on one tab from being displayed on all the...

www.access-programmers.co.uk

 

[Pat Hartman]

I hate it when I contradict myself

 

[Pat Hartman]

When my husband was working at Sikorsky, he sometimes ended up supporting Access users. He used to get a kick out of doing a web search for a solution and coming up with one of my answers

 

[June7]

It's my experience if control does not get positioned within tab page, it is actually just a control on form sitting on top of tab control and that's why it shows "on each tab", although if there is a subform on page it could be covered by that. If you see a control like that, move the tab control and see if errant control moves as well. Never has for me.

 

[isladogs]

Agreed. Controls can only be placed on a tab control page and never on the tab control itself. When placed incorrectly, the added control is on the form itself behind the tab control
@missinglinq explained it perfectly back in 2016 in that other referenced thread and Pat also got it right back in 2022

 

[LarryE]

I have always thought of it as just a picture frame to frame things. You can make it different colors and different sizes and make the frame different widths, but it is still just a frame.