OBAMA WINS (at last)

[georgedwilkinson]

Not an attempt at criticism, a genuine question: What position are you talking about?

The President of the United States with information the rest of us will never know.

I honestly never saw the invasion of Iraq this time round as an attempt by GW to outdo Daddy, but as something that looked like it would succeed at a time when the actual threat (i.e. Bin Laden) was proving too difficult to catch. At least he knew the country coudn't go and hide anywhere. I figured he needed to look like he was doing something constructive after 9/11 and just saw the oil, etc. as a bonus. Unfortunately, the invasion proved a lot harder than expected, so he's now stuck whatever he does. Leave Iraq? He's a quitter, soldiers died in vain, etc, etc. Stay in Iraq? How many more soldiers will die, look at the cost, etc, etc.

You and I are in agreement on this.

 

[Fifty2One]

The only thing I am bored with is Hillary. Even in his moment of victory, all anyone could talk about is what she would do, what she would say. She rudely refused to concede, although I hear she is planning to concede in secret this weekend when noone is around to see. Now, two days after his victory, all anyone can talk about is whether or not he should put her on the ticket! I wish she would just go away already. The way she is hanging around gives me the creepy feeling that she is waiting for the hit that she alluded to a couple of weeks ago to happen, so she can be right there to step into his place.

Hillary, time to kick back and enjoy a cigar with Bill... the race is OVER

Quitters never win and winners never quit... but those who never win AND never quit definately have issues that need addressing... I think Hillary needs help for her OCD...

 

[Alisa]

... I think Hillary needs help for her OCD...

I think her psychological problems are far graver than simple OCD. Manic delusions of grandeur, narcissistic personality disorder, and who knows what else.

 

[Rich]

I think her psychological problems are far graver than simple OCD. Manic delusions of grandeur, narcissistic personality disorder, and who knows what else.

Just like the current idiot eh?

 

[Rich]

Point is, you're right, Al Gore would've done it, Hillary would've done it, Obama would've done it, McCain would've done it, Congress would've done it (in fact, they had as much to do with it as W). Heck, if they had been in that position, even America's biggest critics might have done it (invitation for witty rebuttal from my US hating buddies on the forum). .

Which just goes to add credence to belief that America is full of warmongers

However, most of those other people would have been too wishy washy (including Bush Sr. and Congress) to see it to the end

Yes countless thousands of innocent dead can be mighty thankful for the Resolve of the chimp

 

[Alisa]

Just like the current idiot eh?

Eerily similar in fact.

 

[statsman]

Which just goes to add credence to belief that America is full of warmongers

Using the same criteria, Britain must be full of spineless simpletons.
After all, they tagged along.

 

[Rich]

Using the same criteria, Britain must be full of spineless simpletons.

Only our so called leaders

 

[Rabbie]

The conclusion I came to several years ago was that there was no difference between the two mjaor parties in either Australia or America when it came to very large issues.

I think this true in Britain as well. The politicians are in fact limited by what is actually possible to do as defined by the Civil Service who actually run the country.

Let's face it, it's easy to criticise the war in Iraq with the advantage of hindsight but there were many more supporters when the decision was actually taken.

 

[Alisa]

Let's face it, it's easy to criticise the war in Iraq with the advantage of hindsight but there were many more supporters when the decision was actually taken.

It was pretty easy to criticize the war before it started too. There was readily available information to show that there was no valid connection between 9/11 and Iraq, that there were no WMD (at least none that had been found so far), and that the niger yellowcake nonsense was nonsense. If I found this information, why couldn't my representatives? After all, they have access to far more intelligence information than I do . . . The answer was they didn't look at it because they were too scared of being called "unpatriotic". Talk about spineless.

As far as the people who bought that hogwash about removing a terrible dictator and bringing democracy to Iraq, all I can say is that anyone who knows any amount of world history and any amount of current events could clearly see that there was nothing so especially terrible about this dictator that demanded us to rush into war unprepared, without an exit strategy, just to remove him. And anyway, democracy (not that the U.S. really has one anymore), has never been successfully imposed on another country, although that doesn't stop us from trying.

I think the single most important factor that did Hillary in was her unwillingness to admit that she made a mistake in supporting the war in the first place. Obama has the clear upper hand on that point, having spoken out against the war from the begining.

 

[CraigDolphin]

It was pretty easy to criticize the war before it started too.

I agree 100%.

 

[Alisa]

I agree 100%.

Hey! We found a subject we can agree on!

 

[CraigDolphin]

Amazing ain't it?

 

[statsman]

Thats a pretty standard arguement.

American: We are here to give you democracy so you can vote for your leaders.

Iraqi: Vote! What's a vote.

American: hmmm, this may be a bigger job than we thought.

 

[Fifty2One]

It was pretty easy to criticize the war before it started too. There was readily available information to show that there was no valid connection between 9/11 and Iraq, that there were no WMD (at least none that had been found so far), and that the niger yellowcake nonsense was nonsense. If I found this information, why couldn't my representatives? After all, they have access to far more intelligence information than I do . . . The answer was they didn't look at it because they were too scared of being called "unpatriotic". Talk about spineless.

As far as the people who bought that hogwash about removing a terrible dictator and bringing democracy to Iraq, all I can say is that anyone who knows any amount of world history and any amount of current events could clearly see that there was nothing so especially terrible about this dictator that demanded us to rush into war unprepared, without an exit strategy, just to remove him. And anyway, democracy (not that the U.S. really has one anymore), has never been successfully imposed on another country, although that doesn't stop us from trying.

I think the single most important factor that did Hillary in was her unwillingness to admit that she made a mistake in supporting the war in the first place. Obama has the clear upper hand on that point, having spoken out against the war from the begining.

Wouldn't a proper democracy allow a people to chose a dictator?
Anyway I am sure most of the people in Iraq really dont give a crap much past the point of STOP SHOOTING AND BOMBING because they are caught in the middle of the fight for peace

 

[Alisa]

Wouldn't a proper democracy allow a people to chose a dictator?

Nope. But by the same token, you can't create a democracy just by removing a dictator.

 

[Rich]

Isn't Iran a democracy?

 

[statsman]

Isn't Iran a democracy?

Technically yes.
Unofficially power is shared between the elected representatives and the Muslim clerics.
Neither side can really do anything unless the other side agrees.
Nobody voted for the clerics.

It's not unlike the old Soviet Union.
The country was governed tri-level with the Party, the Army and the KGB all having their own areas of responsibility.
On an important issue it was two against one.

 

[Wayne Cramer]

Hey Alisa. Maybe you should run for president. We can cut out all the expense of cabinet members, advisors and intelligence organizations because you can just look up anything you need to know on the internet.

 

[Alisa]

Hey Alisa. Maybe you should run for president. We can cut out all the expense of cabinet members, advisors and intelligence organizations because you can just look up anything you need to know on the internet.

Thats pretty mean spirited. If you disagree with something I said, why not discuss it instead of insulting me?
And btw, none of what I said earlier came from looking up stuff on the internet.