Oliver Cromwell

[Adam Caramon]

Hello all,

Out of curiosity, how is Oliver Cromwell viewed in the UK? Our history classes in the US really just glazed over him, but I have found his story to be very intriguing. I've read a lot about him where I could find it, and it made me wonder how he is received in the UK.

Thanks for your opinions.

 

[oumahexi]

Ah, if only I had one of those Delorean time machines, I could travel back in time and burn him at the stake!

 

[statsman]

In our history books at school, Cromwell's time in charge is treated as a major step towards the evolution of a Constitutional Monarchy. Out of school we learned that he was a very unpleasant piece of work.
He beheaded Charles I because he wanted to. There was no real reason for it otherwise.
His troops locked Irish villagers in their "Papist" churches, then burned them down.
He dismissed Parliament and ruled as a virtual dictator.
An excellent example of absolute power corrupting absolutely.

 

[Atomic Shrimp]

All of that needs to be read in context though - I've just finished reading Nathaniel's Nutmeg, which documents the spice trade across a time period that overlaps with Cromwell - sadly, violence, beligerence, torture and bloodshed was very much a normal part, in those days, of what we might now term 'project managment'.

Not that this excuses anything, but it's just worth noting that Cromwell wasn't really acting in a particularly exceptional manner, for the time.

 

[oumahexi]

He, along with King James, was renowed for burning witches

 

[SQL_Hell]

Fat old bloke with a round head?

 

[GaryPanic]

tried to cancel christmas or any other celebration - miserable old duffer

took over parliment when parliment would not hold a general election (which it is meant to every 4-5 years )

 

[statsman]

He, along with King James, was renowed for burning witches

Off on a tangent here:
Why were witches burned as opposed to some other method. Seems like an awful way to go.

 

[Atomic Shrimp]

Off on a tangent here:
Why were witches burned as opposed to some other method. Seems like an awful way to go.

I think that was kinda the point. Punishments were designed to be cruel and brutal, maybe not as a deterrent, but maybe more as an expression of the moral outrage of those performing the punishment.

 

[SQL_Hell]

They were also drowned, they used to put them in a dunking device and hold them under water until they died....

The theory being; if they were a witch then they wouldn't die from drowning.

A slightly flawed method of Witch identification given Witches dont actually exist. I guess a lot of innocent people died

 

[oumahexi]

Off on a tangent here:
Why were witches burned as opposed to some other method. Seems like an awful way to go.

Because they were made of wood.

 

[Pauldohert]

Off on a tangent here:
Why were witches burned as opposed to some other method. Seems like an awful way to go.

It was effective against warts.

 

[Kryst51]

They were also drowned, they used to put them in a dunking device and hold them under water until they died....

The theory being; if they were a witch then they wouldn't die from drowning.

Hmmmm. I'm pretty sure it was only burning and then only if she weighed the same as a duck.

 

[ColinEssex]

tried to cancel christmas

It should be banned from having any fake religious connections. It is a pagan festival and should be kept that way.

Col

 

[Kryst51]

LOL... It's called "Christmas" for a reason, if you want to celebrate its pagan roots go ahead, but don't term it "Christmas".

 

[GaryPanic]

It should be banned from having any fake religious connections. It is a pagan festival and should be kept that way.

Col

Was it though.... what day did they used to celebrate it on .. i give you the 25th as a pagan day .. but did they used to celebrate 01/04/xx ? or there abouts ....

 

[ColinEssex]

Was it though.... what day did they used to celebrate it on .. i give you the 25th as a pagan day .. but did they used to celebrate 01/04/xx ? or there abouts ....

The pagan festival celebrating and worship of the trees etc. was on the 25th Dec - that's why people have "christmas" trees. The celebration of the birth of the con-man Jesus was march / April time. No-one (quite rightly) too that seriously, so it was moved to coincide with the pagan festival on Dec 25th.

I think it's funny that strict christians have a christmas tree without knowing they are celebrating a pagan worship.

Col

 

[Kryst51]

The celebration of the birth of the con-man Jesus

Hmmm... I can take a lot of bashing of the country that I belong to... But please don't bash my religion too. I wouldn't bash others on here....

think it's funny that strict christians have a christmas tree without knowing they are celebrating a pagan worship.

You cannot assume that Christians don't know the meaning of the Christmas tree. As a matter of fact I bet you don't understand a lot of what Christians do and believe..... But, that's OK too. Fortunately for us with the things we do for fun, i.e. a Christmas tree, it doesn't matter the origins, only our heart during the practice. When my family uses a Christmas tree, it creates anticipation for the gifts that are being given under it. Similar to the gift that we received in Jesus Christ. I don't mean to go all religious. Not my intention; but I want people to understand, not just blindly think wrong thoughts about Christians....

 

[Rabbie]

The pagan festival celebrating and worship of the trees etc. was on the 25th Dec - that's why people have "christmas" trees. The celebration of the birth of the con-man Jesus was march / April time. No-one (quite rightly) too that seriously, so it was moved to coincide with the pagan festival on Dec 25th.

I think it's funny that strict christians have a christmas tree without knowing they are celebrating a pagan worship.

Col

Coincidentally 25th December was also celebrated by the followers of the the cult of Mithras which became very popular in the roman empire in 1st and 2nd century AD. Funny how thaey try to take over from other cults

 

[Kryst51]

Coincidentally 25th December was also celebrated by the followers of the the cult of Mithras which became very popular in the roman empire in 1st and 2nd century AD. Funny how thaey try to take over from other cults

I think using other dates for Christain holiday was due to a Roman Emporer... (I don't know enough history to remember the name of the emperor though, although it is a well known one.... )