Pat Hartman has left the building

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So, Uncle G., the answer is "get a lawyer to weed through what you've got to decide what has to go." It figures. We have a USA saying that the only folks who are statistically likely to get rich are politicians and lawyers.
 
Been away for a while only to come back to so much drama :oops:.

I have no idea what cause Mrs. Hartman to make such a request but she was a very knowledgeable and skilled developer. I mean some of her advice, along with many senior developers here, really helped me develop my own skills. It is really sad to hear her go even sadder to know that a public forum like this has the power to censor or delete contributions, contributions that can help and guide upcoming developers.

Maybe I speaking out of terms here but what if @Gasman @isladogs @The_Doc_Man @CJ_London or even @MajP one day decide to have their contributions taken down, would the moderators comply? Then what?
 
@raziel3 - What if? I can't speak for the others, but I would have to say it is unlikely for me to demand removal of what little knowledge I've been able to contribute. For me, at least, there is a level of satisfaction in knowing that my posts could have helped someone technically or gave them a smile on a gloomy day.

I will also say this, and I'm phrasing this part carefully. The forum has ALWAYS had the power to censor. It is only since the UK's OSA becoming active in July, 2025 that AWF has suddenly developed the NEED to censor. And since Pat found fault with me for censorship, I will add that what I actually censored wasn't in any way technical; it was more political than anything else. Going beyond that statement would probably be in bad taste so I'll stop here.
 
Although I've been around for a much shorter time than most of you in more than one way, my interactions with Pat Hartman were always somewhat complicated, even in threads where she was seeking advice.

A number of new users expressed similar frustrations, and some even stopped posting, possibly due to the way they felt dismissed. It's especially tough when someone with a high post count and a "Super Moderator" badge critiques your work in a way that feels discouraging, especially when you're just looking for help.

Pat sometimes dismissed new ideas, particularly those that didn't align with her preferred methods, which could definitely be frustrating. In a community that should be open to evolving ideas and modern standards, this attitude seemed to hold things back a bit, especially with her focus on what she referred to as "the Access way".

If no other copies of her messages are available, I hope this shift will lead to a more positive, welcoming atmosphere for those trying to learn MS Access, so they can focus on constructive and more supportive content instead.

That said, Pat, if you're reading this, I truly hope you find the time to heal and feel better soon. Wishing you all the best, I hope you continue enjoying Bridge and all the other things you like with your favorite people. And if you want to continue to help others, please do so, I personally respect and appreciate your accuracy and quick response, just remember to be moderate and forgiving, even if you don't like the person or their work.
 
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Uncle Gizmo said:
intransigent
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That's interesting and in a way true. He was intransigent in that he felt he had done the right thing , not in some random opinion. and I believe that was the truth. Sometimes you just have to say I believe I did the right thing and that is that. and I think the "that is that" part upset Pat, but you cannot please all the people all the time. If she is like a lot of people who leave she will be back anyway.
 
Overall, Pat did cause a certain amount of friction with her style of critiquing databases. And I found her approach to topics like VBA and SQL Server to be very interesting, as if cloaking a certain lack of knowledge with a fake veneer of despising. Sorry, but that is the truth I can finally get it out. On the plus side, she was very pleasant to chat with at other times, told interesting stories and did have a lot of knowledge about table design, reports and forms, which I admired. (See, I am saying the nice stuff too, so don't jump on me). She had a lot of knowledge about getting business requirements and turning them into databases, which I admired and she freely (if bruskly) shared. Her passion about politics was destined to lead her to this point, and I for one believe this was part of the momentum which lead up to her leaving: She began to realize that an increasing number of people, even former T. supporters, were "souring" on him, his administrations' actions, and Israel's actions. That angered her, as if numbers of people were leaving the 'fold' of the faithful. I happened to be among those people, and I could sense her increasing frustration that people once devoted to supporting T were now criticizing him. I won't even say his name here, as I don't want people to think I am turning THIS into a political post. I'm not - I'm just saying she was frustrated to literally watch his support decreasing more, more, and more. This upset and disappointed her, and I can understand that . It's as if you have a crowd of people supporting and cheering for someone, and you begin to watch the crowd slowly disperse to nearly nothing......It frustrated her to no end, so I feel I was part of it too. But I think I did and said the right things, meaning my own convictions I stayed true to.
Amen. Pass the biscuits.
 
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ColinEssex said:
I totally agree with that comment.
I'm not going to 'knock' Pat as she is not here, unless she has a different username. I fully admit we did have our differences for various reasons, so I'm happy to leave it at that.
Like I said earlier, let's move on and make sure we act like sensible adults to prolong the life of a valuable and friendly site.
Col
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There is always an add ball in the back, and this time its me. I Liked Pat.
 
Oh no..
I will miss my Grand School Teacher.
We have many quarrels on the past (even on PMs). But not enough, I supposed for her or Me to leave..
anyway, Farewell my friend (just follow the light and the end of the tunnel..)
you will have more time with your Amigas playing your favorite card game.
and when you win, don't forget the tip...
like the Terminator always say, "I'll be back..."

you are always welcome to be housemate in Big Brother's house...
 
Sometimes it's the things that agitate us the most is what keeps us going.
 
BlueSpruce said:
I kind of miss debating with Pat, but we must keep AWF safe from the thought police.
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And keep members safe too. There have been about 12,000 arrests in the UK during 2023 for breaking electronic communications laws, although they haven't broken it down into a number for social media posts.
 
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Jon said:
And keep members safe too. There have been about 12,000 arrests in the UK during 2023 for breaking electronic communications laws, although they haven't broken it down into a number for social media posts.
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I'm not familiar with the dos and don'ts of this law, I'm not from there. Can you give an example what exactly was broken (social media/internet related)?
 
Seems a little bit like a book burning. A very sad day for all the people coming after us who want to learn how to build databases.
The person would have to be feeling really, I don't know, depressed to wantonly destroy an entire lifetime's work of evidence of their own value.
I may have been one of her most ardent dissenters, and probably the recipient of the bulk of her caustic diatribes.
And yet, I feel this is a great loss to have that much knowledge erased. I for one did not want this to end this way, I continuously held out hope that she would learn how to temper her responses, and even acknowledge the possibility that a single worldview is in no one's best interest, especially their own.
Pat, if you're reading this, for whatever part I may have played in this decision to eradicate all of that incredible body of knowledge, then I apologize. Although, I imagine if you are reading this you are probably thinking that I'm nowhere near important enough to have any influence on you, as it should be.
 
And while I respect Pat in certain areas, and in those certain areas quite highly, yet I will not be afraid to say it was an absolutely terrible and petty decision for her to demand that all of her posts be deleted. That's just childish and Jon didn't have to comply with it but he did so probably out of just not wanting to deal with retribution and whatever additional pettiness may have followed a refusal
 
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