Pat Hartman has left the building (1 Viewer)

[Jon]

After about 25 years and 48,000 posts, Pat has decided to leave. She has asked me to delete all her posts and delete her profile, which I have now done. I thought you guys should know because she was a prominent member here, and also a super moderator.

 

[KitaYama]

Am I the one who caused it?
If so, I don't say anything more, because she's not here to defend herself.
If she's reading this, I just wanted to say I'm sorry it ended this way.

 

[ColinEssex]

After about 25 years and 48,000 posts, Pat has decided to leave.

Perhaps in the light of that there may not now be the need for a moderator of moderators. I think we are all sensible enough to police ourselves. We know what we can and can't do to save AWF and Jon, so maybe now we can post in harmony.
Col

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

I have not been on the forum much lately. I have not being that well, and when I can apply myself, I concentrate on building some interesting software with AI ..

I do have weekly zoom calls with Pat, and I couldn't wish to speak to a more intelligent and clever person, way out of my league. She has a vast depth of knowledge and her humour, good natured, and sometimes wicked, in a good way ..

It troubles me to see that she has decided to leave the forum...

I have deliberately not taken part in any of the friction and I avoid talking to Pat about it in our weekly conversations... As I can't see any way I could help ..

However in Yesterdays chat, she mentioned that she found Doc Man Richard a particular annoyance and I got the impression intransigent.

I am very torn because I have always valued Richards commitment and the way he conducts himself on the forum is exemplary. Something just does not add up.

However, like I said I have not taken part in the discussion, I have not read anything. I deliberately kept away from it

 

[Steve R.]

She is very knowledgeable. Very sad that she will not be able to contribute to the discussions.

PS: With one post, I finally became a monthly "Top Poster of the Month"! Yea. Well that won't last long.

 

[AngelSpeaks]

I will miss her.

 

[AccessBlaster]

nothing happens in a vacuum

 

[NauticalGent]

Am I the one who caused it?

Probably not, even so, she's a big girl...

If so, I don't say anything more, because she's not here to defend herself.

Classy

If she's reading this, I just wanted to say I'm sorry it ended this way.

Dont beat yourself up. You did apologize to her already and she refused to accept.

However in Yesterdays chat, she mentioned that she found Doc Man Richard a particular annoyance and I got the impression intransigent.

Towards the end, she was NOT herself. There are things we dont know and this sucks that it came to this.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I will admit that I might have been the straw that broke that particular camel's back. Pat and I discussed it privately via DMs. I dared to actually censor one of her posts after Jon told us he was clamping down on certain behavior - a behavior that I saw in the thread I censored. There is more to it, but I don't wish to sound like I am making an excuse. And I will not apologize for trying to protect the forum in light of the OSA issues that have been brought up in the last couple of months. I will miss Pat, too. She helped me a lot when I was new to the forum.

To those of you who filed formal reports regarding Pat's behavior, I will be marking all such reports as "Resolved." But I will take no joy in doing so.

Ave atque vale, Pat.

 

[KitaYama]

Probably not, even so, she's a big girl...

At least, It's a relief.

 

[BlueSpruce]

Despite our differences, I still respect Pat for all the knowledge she contributed throughout decades. I have known her and other colleagues we have in common. Deleting all her technical posts and future contributions is a huge loss for all of us. I thank her for helping and wish her wellness and peace.

 

[amorosik]

.. There is more to...

Perhaps in these words there are the motivation for what she has decided to do
I wish Pat well

 

[ColinEssex]

I will admit that I might have been the straw that broke that particular camel's back.

Definitely not. The 'camel' brought it on herself over many months. You have no reason to apologise for being a good, fair and understanding moderator. Keep up the good work and let's all move on and concentrate on having forums we can be sure are within the guidelines that Jon requires.
Col

 

[MarkK]

Jon,
I think this is a garbage call on your part. To me, if someone chooses to participate in a community, the contribution they freely make belongs to the community. I think it does a dishonour to the rest of us that rather than protect the quality and integrity of the threads we all participated on, you instead protect the interests of a single individual who's intent can only be, given the nature the request, intended to do harm.
Like, why would you consent to such a massive loss of value to your own property?
And what should be our response? Continue to contribute value here, knowing that if someone else gets grumpy, meh, you'll just delete another 48,000 posts?
wtf

 

[Jon]

Jon,
I think this is a garbage call on your part. To me, if someone chooses to participate in a community, the contribution they freely make belongs to the community. I think it does a dishonour to the rest of us that rather than protect the quality and integrity of the threads we all participated on, you instead protect the interests of a single individual who's intent can only be, given the nature the request, intended to do harm.
Like, why would you consent to such a massive loss of value to your own property?
And what should be our response? Continue to contribute value here, knowing that if someone else gets grumpy, meh, you'll just delete another 48,000 posts?
wtf

I have my reasons, which will remain private. And they align with protecting the value of this property.

 

[Gasman]

Whilst I realise it would be a lot of work to weed the suspect from the good, Pat supplied many solutions to problems posted here.
It is sad that all those are gone as well.

 

[Jon]

Pat left because I changed the status quo at the site. It was not because of @KitaYama, @The_Doc_Man or @ColinEssex. Instead, I implemented a new set of rules that proved to be unpalatable. Any actions @The_Doc_Man took regarding moderation were merely the result of following my revised guidelines, based on discussions behind closed doors.

 

[amorosik]

All of you are arguing that a "great value" has been deleted: Pat's posts
Perhaps it would be appropriate to consider that the value lies in being able to engage with another human being interested in discussing the same topics we're interested in discussing
If the rules have changed, that's fine; anyone who doesn't agree with the new rules is free to leave
But, in my opinion, the loss lies in the people, not in the individual posts (which undoubtedly carry great value)

 

[AccessBlaster]

By deleting her own posts, she basically gets the last word which, in my opinion, is fine. As far as I know, she left of her own accord. And by the way, anyone can choose to delete their own posts, it’s still our prerogative as of this date. Jon deserves a lot of thanks for allowing us (American's) to mouth off now and then.

 

[isladogs]

Its always very sad when somebody goes from being regarded as one of the most respected experts to becoming a significantly negative influence on the forum. In this case, I agree completely with my namesake @ColinEssex (it doesn't happen often!) that Pat brought the situation entirely upon herself.

Many of us here (definitely including me) occasionally overstep the mark both in terms of our comments and the tone in which they are expressed.
Unfortunately, that had become the norm for Pat, not only in the Politics and Watercooler sections but also in technical areas. Even when giving good advice, she regularly trampled over the feelings of others, whether they were beginners, experienced developers or other moderators.

As for her personal views, some of her comments were in my opinion, potentially risking legal action even before the OSA took effect.
Her role as a moderator made her interactions with others many orders of magnitude more problematic.

I can well believe that in person, Pat is completely different to the persona shown in this forum.
However, the reality is that without her, the forum is a happier and a more positive environment.

I have no idea whether Pat demanded all her almost 48K posts be deleted but, in any case, it would have been an almost impossible task for Jon to sift through separating out what was worth keeping from those which were problematic. Undoubtedly there are now many threads where the content will be somewhat difficult to follow due to her content being removed.

Yes, I agree that we have lost a lot of valuable knowledge but, overall, I feel that the forum is now in a much healthier position than before