Pope banning gays

[Mile-O]

So, the first major decision by the current Pontiff is that gays can't become priests but ex-gays (whatever that is supposed to mean) can be priests.

Two questions:

• Since they have stated that a man can become a priest provided he has not had homosexual tendencies in the last three years, are they actually misunderstanding homosexuality as being some internal switch that you can switch on and off at will?
• Why would someone want to hide their (homo)sexuality to become part of a system that, by all accounts, excludes them?

 

[Vassago]

So, the first major decision by the current Pontiff is that gays can't become priests but ex-gays (whatever that is supposed to mean) can be priests.

Two questions:

• Since they have stated that a man can become a priest provided he has not had homosexual tendencies in the last three years, are they actually misunderstanding homosexuality as being some internal switch that you can switch on and off at will?
• Why would someone want to hide their (homo)sexuality to become part of a system that, by all accounts, excludes them?

They don't think it's a switch they can turn on and off. They think that it's a mental disorder that can be "corrected" with therapy and counceling. This is why they include ex-gays in their debate as they believe the ex-gays were never actually gay to begin with, just sick.

That also answers part II. If you are bred to believe that your homosexuality you experienced was an illness rather than a choice, then you can be led to believe you are "cured," so you no longer believe you ever actually were gay, just ill, thus not really hiding your homosexuality, because you don't believe you ever were.

 

[Rich]

Perhaps if they agree to stop wearing condoms they'll be allowed in
pity they haven't banned child abuse by some of the priesthood

 

[Vassago]

And why isn't that abuse considered homosexuality. Wasn't most (all?) of the abuse done to males? It is pretty sad in this day and age as a human race in the wake of science when we still believe in concepts such as religion and not giving everyone equal rights. When our churches consider homosexuality a greater crime against "god" than child abuse, even though the bible clearly states thou shalt not judge. And when our legal system gives a person who downloads copies of recorded movies online harsher penalties than someone who commits ra**, grand theft, or even murder in some instances. It's a shame.

 

[Rich]

And when our legal system gives a person who downloads copies of recorded movies online harsher penalties than someone who commits ra**, grand theft, or even murder in some instances. It's a shame.

That's because we're ruled by money these days, if you steal millions from a bank you'll get longer inside than if you mugged an elderly lady, it's not a shame, it's bloody criminal

 

[jsanders]

Is there a theme to this thread or is it just for raving?

 

[ColinEssex]

So, the first major decision by the current Pontiff is that gays can't become priests but ex-gays (whatever that is supposed to mean) can be priests.

Arn't most of the RC priests gay anyway? so what happens there then?

Col

 

[KenHigg]

They don't think it's a switch they can turn on and off. They think that it's a mental disorder that can be "corrected" with therapy and counceling. This is why they include ex-gays in their debate as they believe the ex-gays were never actually gay to begin with, just sick.

That also answers part II. If you are bred to believe that your homosexuality you experienced was an illness rather than a choice, then you can be led to believe you are "cured," so you no longer believe you ever actually were gay, just ill, thus not really hiding your homosexuality, because you don't believe you ever were.

So how would you explain why a person engages in homosexual behavior? Would you say they were born with it, similar to say like... maybe they were born with blue eyes? Then maybe it simply takes a while for it to surface in some/most cases?

 

[The Stoat]

As the RC priesthood is supposed to be celibate and single I can't see it makes any difference whether they are gay or straight. However, from a political point of view having people wishing to join who claim to have been cured furthers their agenda for the idea that it is a mental condition.

 

[Pauldohert]

Its pretty simple -

Catholic Priests should not be putting their todgers up any front or back passages regardless of the age of the passages owner.


Having in the past put your todger up a front or back passage does not bar you from becoming a priest however, as long as the owner is consenting and of a certain age.


Whats the problem?

 

[Vassago]

So how would you explain why a person engages in homosexual behavior? Would you say they were born with it, similar to say like... maybe they were born with blue eyes? Then maybe it simply takes a while for it to surface in some/most cases?

You are certainly not born with it. It all depends on what you find "attractive" emotionally.and only sometimes physically. Are you saying you agree that it's a disease that needs to be treated? What about those who are not attracted to anyone and just wish to say alone, are they sick too?

 

[Rich]

Who gives a frock what men in frocks think anyway?

 

[KenHigg]

You are certainly not born with it...

So if you are not born with innate homosexual desires, is the desire acquired?

 

[selenau837]

So if you are Bi, what does that mean? I see it has having LOTS of fun. *grins*

 

[MrsGorilla]

You are certainly not born with it. It all depends on what you find "attractive" emotionally.and only sometimes physically. Are you saying you agree that it's a disease that needs to be treated? What about those who are not attracted to anyone and just wish to say alone, are they sick too?

Some people say they are born that way. I'm not convinced one way or the other, maybe it's different for different people. I do personally know someone who is straight but had many gay friends she hung out with all the time and after being immersed in the lifestyle for a while began to have tendencies towards it as well, which disappeared when she stopped hanging with those friends. I'm sure that's not the case for everyone, but I can see both sides of the argument. Maybe some people are born with those tendencies and other people just make those choices. Perhaps other people still have fallen into that simply because of environment. I don't really know, but maybe for some of those people they can be "cured", if that's what you really want to call it. I wouldn't really think of it as a disease myself, but a choice about your lifestyle. It seems to me that people who are "cured" have to WANT to make the change, just as someone who wants to quit smoking or doing drugs or lose weight or whatever.

Being a Christian but not a Catholic about the only thing I can say about the priesthood is that it seems to me like they should be at least as concerned about what their current priests are doing as they are about who they are or aren't going to ordain in the future. I'm sure there are many more honorable priests than there are bad ones, but it seems like all you ever hear about is negative stuff. Maybe there is someone here who is Catholic that can shed some light on that?

 

[Rich]

So if you are Bi, what does that mean? I see it has having LOTS of fun. *grins*

You're just greedy

 

[selenau837]

You're just greedy

Greed can be good!

 

[Vassago]

I think before we decide whether or not homosexuality is something that you are born with, you have to decide what the definition of homosexuality is. Some dictionaries describe a homosexual as someone who is physically attracted to someone of the same sex, while others state that the definition is someone who is emotionally attracted to someone of the same sex. Another definition even states that someone has to have physical sex with the other person in order for them to be a homosexual. I tend to prefer the psychological and emotional attraction definition more than the others.

This would mean that you are not a homosexual if you just have physical experiences with someone of the same sex, but were not actually emotionally attracted to them. This seems to happen more for females than males, where they may have a sexual experience with another female, but they would never actually date one, and in some instances (and more instances if it were up to most guys) were even with a guy they were dating at the same time.

I think in order to be bisexual, you have to be physically AND emotionally attracted to both sexes. Maybe you've dated people from both planets.

Now, if that's your definition of homosexuality, than no, I don't believe you can be born with it, nor can you be persuaded to be one way or ther other by peer pressure, parents, church groups, etc. I believe that your emotional and physical attraction to one sex or the other comes with growing up, especially during puberty where your hormones start to give you your emotional and physical sex drive. I believe that once you are homosexual or not, and you are truly attracted to one sex or the other, not just "think" you are attracted to them and you KNOW you are, then that's it. You can't be "cured." I believe some people go their whole life without even knowing that they are homosexual (or vice versa), but just know "something" is off about the way they feel.

Some people can be attracted to neither males nor females, but can have physical contact with one or both of them. Where do they fall in the church's decision. And furthermore, how can a priest even be homosexual or not being that they are not supposed to be with ANYONE?

 

[ColinEssex]

but it seems like all you ever hear about is negative stuff.

Thats always true Cindy in any area - as we've discussed before, in the UK we are led to believe your chances of being shot whilst on holiday in the USA is almost a certainty - at the least you'll be mugged.

Newspapers live and thrive on bad news and negative stuff

Col

 

[KenHigg]

..., I don't believe you can be born with it, nor can you be persuaded to be one way or ther other by peer pressure, parents, church groups, etc.

Seems to be a contradiction. Seems it's either in the cards or something has to have an influence to sway a person one way or the other. Wouldn't you say so?

Edit:

Or maybe the fallacy is that there's a tendency to oversimplify. Maybe some people are born with it and some acquire it (The desire to engage in homo sexual behavior). ???