Protests

[FoFa]

Yes wasn't it supposedly because you didn't want to pay tax. Well as they say, what goes round comes round

Naw, that was a lie we made up.
We just hate royalty!

 

[dan-cat]

Naw, that was a lie we made up.
We just hate royalty!

Yeah just needed an excuse to throw your lousy tea into the harbor... yeuch!!

 

[Rich]

Yeah just needed an excuse to throw your lousy tea into the harbor... yeuch!!

It's ten times better than MacDonalds coffee

 

[Rich]

We just hate royalty!

That's why you envy it so much

 

[FoFa]

There are millions of imprisoned criminals in the US who are protected by the law. Utter nonsense. What do you think would happen to society if criminals were not protected by the law?

Protected by SOME laws. The criminals actually loose some rights (like freedom in the case of a jail term). Not being a lawyer (thank God) I don't know the specifics. But I do know you can't kill a criminal or illegal and expect to get away with it. Like said before, there is a line between US citizen rights, and human rights that exists.
How ever let them open a hunting season...

 

[FoFa]

It's ten times better than MacDonalds coffee

A bad cup of coffee is 10 times better than a good cup of hot tea any day.

now Ice tea, that is totally a different subject

 

[dan-cat]

Like said before, there is a line between US citizen rights, and human rights that exists.

I was just trying to expose the dangers of ignoring the human rights laws altogether. It's far simpler if you liken the problem to a swarm of locusts but unfortunately insecticide isn't going to work.

 

[selenau837]

I was just trying to expose the dangers of ignoring the human rights laws altogether. It's far simpler if you liken the problem to a swarm of locusts but unfortunately insecticide isn't going to work.

Ok, I do agree with you on this point. They are humans and have the rights of humans, and should not be compared to lowly insects, but as FoFa said there is a line between US Citizen rights and Human Rights.

 

[dan-cat]

Ok, I do agree with you on this point. They are humans and have the rights of humans, and should not be compared to lowly insects, but as FoFa said there is a line between US Citizen rights and Human Rights.

Now that is the big step. Once you acknowledge the fact that there are millions of HUMANS wanting the same thing and prepared to speak out - you can begin to realise why some get scared and start refusing to acknowledge the situation.

You can shout 'illegality' all you like but this doesn't change the situation one jot. We have vast quantities of PEOPLE on our streets who are unhappy. How did they get here? What is their problem? Why are they so well organised? How come they are speaking as one voice?

It's too late to treat these people as criminals. The figures are too big. We can't throw all these people in jail and we can't deport them all at once. It's a fricken' sensitive situation and if we don't tread carefully things could get a hell of alot worse.

 

[selenau837]

Now that is the big step. Once you acknowledge the fact that there are millions of HUMANS wanting the same thing and prepared to speak out - you can begin to realise why some get scared and start refusing to acknowledge the situation.

You can shout 'illegality' all you like but this doesn't change the situation one jot. We have vast quantities of PEOPLE on our streets who are unhappy. How did they get here? What is their problem? Why are they so well organised? How come they are speaking as one voice?

It's too late to treat these people as criminals. The figures are too big. We can't throw all these people in jail and we can't deport them all at once. It's a fricken' sensitive situation and if we don't tread carefully things could get a hell of alot worse.

Yes, it is a very sensitive situation, and everyone has their opinions on it. As such as it will never be agreed upon here.

 

[jsanders]

Personally I was enjoying the short lines at the 711
(which by the way has good coffee).

 

[ShaneMan]

I like to collect one line sayings and the one that I think fits this situation is, "There is not a right way to do a wrong thing." They are called illegal aligns because they are here illegally. They have broken the law. When you get to the bottom line....There's not a right way to do a wrong thing.

Shane

 

[Bodisathva]

Would you like me to refer you to some similar rhetoric used by the Nazi propaganda machine?

Not at all...at no point in time have I needed to stoop to racial or societal slurs to get my point across...events and actions speak for themselves.

There are millions of imprisoned criminals in the US who are protected by the law.

I see that as a problem that has been cascading out of control for ages. Appeals, more appeals, continuances, etc. The appeals process is an excellent theory, but creates problems when people forget that criminals should loose some of their rights and freedoms...it's called punishment...something I find to be increasingly devoid in our justice system. Is there not something wrong with granting concessions and lenience upon a segment of our society (illegal or not) that break the law?

Did I say anything about not taking responsibility for one's own actions? You are jumping to conclusions.

Because nowhere in the arguments against fences, deportations, more strict immigration laws, etc. has anyone offered any type of suggestion on exactly what kind of remuneration should be imposed upon these illegal immigrants. I'm not saying we need to round them up and ship them out...as much as I'd like to. But a beginning is necessary...how about start enforcing the laws? Just because the solution will take almost as long as the apocryphal "victory in Iraq" doesn't mean we shouldn't pick a starting point and do something besides ignore not only the illegals, but those who benefit from their employ.

How can an individual be a human 'technically'? What argument are you debating against precisely?

No, you misunderstood...not human technically...technically we believe in freedom of speech and therefore allow this idiocy to continue because we grant them that right.

Utter nonsense. What do you think would happen to society if criminals were not protected by the law?

Ah...so we now know why Charlie Manson is still alive, huh? Why the DC sniper is just now coming to trial... There are certain circumstances in which there should be no mitigation. Don't get me wrong, I do understand the theory behind it and it is a good idea...most of the time. Other times, there needs to be an "Express Lane"

I'm afraid it's not just the illegal immigrants who have been breaking the law. It's the ones who have been giving them the jobs also.

Agreed.

However, as soon as this workforce starts talking then we get all upset

Untrue, the recent protests have merely brought the problem to light for those who don't experience it. I have been against the employ of illegals for many, many years. From the migrant apple pickers in the orchards each year to the seemingly unending line of Greek Resauranteurs who refuse to give up their status as Greek Nationals so they don't have to pay the taxes on their business incomes. We have an almost unending supply of welfare rats that could be used to fill these positions without importing more problems. (or sitting quietly buy and allowing it to happen)

The fact is that these people have been illegal for years and they have been PROTECTED by our society for years.

Well then, by all means...let them do as they wish. Maybe we can institute a "frequent law breaker" rewards program. If you can manage to stay illegal for 5 years, you're a citizen. Maybe the next "reality" TV series? We'll call it "Jose's Run" or maybe "Sneak Factor". They have broken the law and should be punished...right along with those who employ them.

well I'm afraid we are seeing the effects of a long-installed greed ethic in our society and what's the cop out? "These people are a bunch of insects!".

Again...agreed. BUT...we are realizing the effects of burning fossil fuels on the environment, we have seen the effects of pollution and are taking steps to correct it, we realized that lead-based paint caused problems, figured out asbesdos caused cancer, realized smoking causes cancer, and took and are taking steps to correct the problem. The solution will not be instantaneous but must be started

 

[Rich]

Again...agreed. BUT...we are realizing the effects of burning fossil fuels on the environment, we have seen the effects of pollution and are taking steps to correct it, we realized that lead-based paint caused problems, figured out asbesdos caused cancer, realized smoking causes cancer, and took and are taking steps to correct the problem. The solution will not be instantaneous but must be started

So you see immigrants as harmful and dangerous?

 

[ColinEssex]

BUT...we are realizing the effects of burning fossil fuels on the environment, we have seen the effects of pollution and are taking steps to correct it, we realized that lead-based paint caused problems, figured out asbesdos caused cancer, realized smoking causes cancer, and took and are taking steps to correct the problem. The solution will not be instantaneous but must be started

The US government hasn't realised it yet The USA is the worlds worst polluter yet Ol' Cross Eyes ignores international agreements restricting emissions because it'll upset the big business moneymen who pay him to keep his gob shut

I honestly can't imagine that he thinks the rest of the world doesn't know this - its so transparent.

Col

 

[ColinEssex]

So you see immigrants as harmful and dangerous?

It would seem so in the USA

Col

 

[Bodisathva]

So you see immigrants as harmful and dangerous?

Illegal immigrants are economically, socially, and logistically harmful, yes.

The US government hasn't realised it yet The USA is the worlds worst polluter

Actually, I believe that honor falls to China, but that's irrelevant. Just because 'W' is an environmental idiot as well as a cultural one doesn't mean that the sane portion of the US doesn't understand it. Despite 'W's failure to commit to the Kyoto Accords, Americans are taking it upon themselves to invest in a "greener" future. Besides this administration can only screw up for another two years.

Illegal immigrants are not accounted for and by shear nature, hide from authorities. They therefore have placed themselves in a position to not be protected by the law. They are their own problem. I will not subscribe to the notion that I need to make up for the self-absorbed stupidity that placed them in that position. Nor do I accept that if we just ignore it, it will go away.

 

[ColinEssex]

Actually, I believe that honor falls to China, but that's irrelevant.

Actually, I think not ref

China and the EU, both lesser polluters than the US, have one thing in common: They are both committed to further reducing their rate of emissions. Despite economic growth China has cut emissions by 17% since the mid 1990s. The odd one out is the USA. Immensely richer than China, but with less population than Europe, it emits more harmful chemicals than both of them. In addition, it has so far stubbornly refused to endorse international protocols designed to reduce such emissions. The world looks on flabbergasted as the world's greatest polluter cares not to take care or responsibility in the face of international pressure.

Despite 'W's failure to commit to the Kyoto Accords, Americans are taking it upon themselves to invest in a "greener" future.

I don't think saving a few plastic bottles is going to help when the Government doesn't give a toss about it. Its obvious the arrogant US government is totally oblivious to international pressure and then wonders why people make fun and dislike the USA (policies) so much the sad thing is that the average American gets tarred with the same brush

Col

 

[Bodisathva]

Actually, I think not

OK..an admittedly quick search shows the US to be the one mucking up the pool.

I don't think saving a few plastic bottles is going to help when the Government doesn't give a toss about it.

It's much more than that. While hybrid vehicles are a good start, many are modifying those hybrids to go totally electrical. People are converting homes to run on solar and geothermal power. But, right along with those who are striving for cleaner alternatives, are those that don't care, driving gas-guzzling SUVs the size of elephants but not as eco-friendly It will be a long journey, but even a journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step.

I simply do not understand the mindset of the current administration. Even Daddy Bush has told 'W' that he's an environmental idiot, but it doesn't change anything. Unless we get the nerve to toss the idiot out of office, we simply have no choice but to tolerate it for another two years and trust that those who voted for the moron will remember their mistake when the next election rolls around.

 

[ColinEssex]

Unless we get the nerve to toss the idiot out of office, we simply have no choice but to tolerate it for another two years . .

I know its not easy - Sadly though he'll take on Iran and christ knows who else before then - and believe me, saving a few % on emissions will be the last thing we'll be thinking about in a middle east v west war.

Col