Protests (1 Viewer)

[dan-cat]

As far as Walmart goes, they might sell crap but then there must be a huge demand for it in the States for it to grow that large, these huge companies control the prices they pay to farmers, suppliers etc., squeezing their profits, I doubt you'll see many farmers growing wealthy on the backs of low paid illegals.
Like I said, capitalism at its worst

Damn, what's going on on, now I'm agreeing with Rich too.

Yep, I fricken' hate Walmart - our Town had 90% of its character ripped out of it when they put a Wal-mart in. All the local stores couldn't compete and had to shut down. Now when a kid has a birthday party, he/she will just get given a bundle of presents all bought from the same aisle. No character in the merchandise, all supplied with the minimum brain power required to choose, all for our own convenience.

Don't tell me that Wal-mart ain't monopolising our town.

 

[Kraj]

You know what? You're right. I really had to go back through the threads to realize what was going on. I thought there was miscommunication due to the two of you failing to be receptive to what the other was trying to communicate, which is another way of saying you were not listening to each other. But I was mistaken. In actuallity, the two of you have simply failed to recognize that the only reasonable conclusion to the dicussion is an agreement to disagree. It is obvious that nothing Dan says will convince you that Mexico is not an inferior country and illegal Mexican immigrants are undeserving of being labeled as such. And nothing you say will convince Dan that such labels are deserved.

You've been at this for three weeks. In that time you've managed to repeatedly insult each other (directly or via inferrance) and have failed to reach just about any kind of reasonable agreement. Regardless of how strong your feelings are, two intelligent, reasonable human beings such as the two of you should have been able to do so by now if that's what you were actually trying to do.

 

[dan-cat]

You've been at this for three weeks. In that time you've managed to repeatedly insult each other (directly or via inferrance) and have failed to reach just about any kind of reasonable agreement. Regardless of how strong your feelings are, two intelligent, reasonable human beings such as the two of you should have been able to do so by now if that's what you were actually trying to do.

Errmm - this is a debating forum and this is a thread regarding illegal immigration. I don't believe there is a time limit for each topic and any participant can retire from the debate at any time.

If you are growing tired of our exchanges, you are free to ignore them.

 

[jsanders]

Actiaully Kraj,

I think Dan and I agree more than we disagree.

All of the following thoughts have been mentioned by me on previous post, on this subject.

First we agree that the real evil doers are the employers.

Second we agree that any person faced with dire conditions has the right to better themselves and provide for their children.

Third we both believe that the people coming here are entitled to be treated with dignity and any rights accorded by our laws.

Forth we both agree they are probably going to stay.

Here is where I perceive us to differ.

It is my contention that the Spanish people have long accepted that a very few will control all of the wealth.

If you examine the portion of the population that exist in poverty in those countries you will see that it has been significantly higher than the United States for the last hundred years.

But that is changing. We now have a growth in that segment of our population that is very alarming and disturbing. That is the insidious aspect of this migration.

Another major disagreement is that I believe they Spanish are ensuring the continuum of poverty and are bring elements of their (inferior in this aspect) culture.

The mode of thinking of the peasant class has been to support a revolutionary figure, only to have him replace the previous dictator with the new one. That is what I mean by VIVA LA REVOTION they protest for rights that will ensure poverty in their ranks. And the worst part of this is that they are supported by Hispanic American Citizens. What a pile of horse droppings.

This is where I get very emotional, and is perhaps our greatest disagreement. How can they be so stupid as to wave their own flags in protest?

They have come here because for 500 years their system has failed them, now it looks like we will, with their help, create the very same system here.


It is this trend toward ignorance and stupidity, that is abhorrent in modern American life.

 

[FoFa]

...and yet again your use of language is poor. Why are you likening people to a cancer? Why do you not get that this kind of rhetoric is wrong? What is this solution you speak of and in what way does it relate to chemotherapy?

I'm not getting that in that response. Seems to me DAN, that although I think you are right, but maybe just a little to teechy. Take a deep breath, it'll be OK. We get your drift.

 

[FoFa]

I doubt it, the boycott will hurt your businesses

Turns out the majority of the business hurt, were the same minoritys as the illegals (humm, that doesn't sound right). Rephrase, most of the illegals work for business run by hipanics (not all mind you, but a good percentage here in Texas) and those are the ones that seem to have to close for the day. We did notice some construction work slowed down with the light work force turn out, but other than that I personally saw no impact from the protest.

 

[FoFa]

One more thought.
The illegals come here looking for work. Would they come if there was no work? Also since their fellow contrymen employ the vast majority of the illegals, a crack down on the employers would seem as a crack down on the hispanic community, be labeld racist, and cause a new stir.
So where do you go?

 

[jsanders]

One more thought.
The illegals come here looking for work. Would they come if there was no work? Also since their fellow contrymen employ the vast majority of the illegals, a crack down on the employers would seem as a crack down on the hispanic community, be labeld racist, and cause a new stir.
So where do you go?

This is in no small part why the legal Hispanic population is advocating the transfer of government document and road signs to Spanish.

Keep the peasants as peasants it’s worked for 500 years.

 

[Bodisathva]

ok...I'll stick my neck out again...

While we don't have the amounts of immigrants this far north that you have in the southwest, we do have a very large contingent of migrant workers that descend upon the local orchard country (hold your ears Dan ...nothing meant by it) like the proverbial hoarde of locusts every year. Based upon that experience, I pose the following question:

ignoring all references to culture or origin...
Has it occurred to anyone else that we are talking about a group of people who, by definition, have already determined that their "special" circumstances in life are such that the laws do not apply to them? If they are capable of rationalizing one illegal act, how can we possibly believe that "minor" immigration infractions and tax evasion will be the extent of their wrongdoings?

 

[Brianwarnock]

Hey Kraj,
My only point is that The United States will become Mexico, or worse, and the mission to divide and conquer the middle class will have been won.

So why bother to flee you home land if all your going to do is to incorporate your peasant ways in the new country.

This is an old story for these folks.

VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

I posted this in the immigration thread

Has anybody ever considered that these "illegal" Mexican immigrants are part of a cunning plan for Mexico to recover the lands lost to America during America's expansion from "Sea to shining sea"

Brian

 

[jsanders]

I posted this in the immigration thread



Brian

What are you saying Brian?

That I copied you?

Actually I was refering to the assault by the lap dog fascist in office, and their ulra rich masters.

 

[Rich]

What are you saying Brian?

That I copied you?

Actually I was refering to the assault by the lap dog fascist in office,

I always thought he was a puppet on a chain

 

[dan-cat]

I'm not getting that in that response. Seems to me DAN, that although I think you are right, but maybe just a little to teechy. Take a deep breath, it'll be OK. We get your drift.

May be I am. My reaction is to the media post at the beginning of this thread...

a snip...

And now, like terrorists, they are going to attack our economy. The
country they came to like locusts so they could reap the benefits is now
the focus of their boycott.

Now please don't let any-one miscontrue this as me calling any-one here a Nazi but I would like to post a link to a piece of 2nd world war Nazi propaganda.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/pesthauch.htm

Now with this is mind, does anyone here think it appropriate that our media should be likening human beings to locusts? Basically I think the writer of that text should be firmly kicked up the rear-end.

It would just make me feel better if people would skip the labelling, that's all.
An immigrants culture has no impact whatsoever on their legal status.

 

[FoFa]

It would just make me feel better if people would skip the labelling, that's all.
An immigrants culture has no impact whatsoever on their legal status.

Oh dang, I just have to play devils advocate on this
While agree with what you say, the facts of real life prove otherwise.
What if a peoples culture allowed for multi-wives, or incest with their children. How do you think that would go over in this country? Or what would happen if they just upped and killed their teenager cause their culture allowed for that if they were disrespectful?
So now lets bring it down to a more realistic level. Lets say a culture is not so, um, aware of litter as an example. Lets say this culture just uses stuff, and leaves the wrapper, waste, whatever on the ground instead of finding a suitable trash container, as an example. Now those that have more appreciation for clean areas, would call them dirty. And in one point of view, that would be true, yet on the other side it is normal, and they don't see an issue with it. The problem becomes, that the jump from dirty, to "a bunch of filty cockroaches" as an example is really short. Not a very big leap at all.
Anyway, I think that is how culture can play into the whole "label" thing.
At least my 2 cents worth.

 

[dan-cat]

The problem becomes, that the jump from dirty, to "a bunch of filty cockroaches" as an example is really short. Not a very big leap at all

For an individual who is unaware/indifferent to where such rhetoric has lead in the past. We're not talking about a passing remark in the street, but a piece of text distributed to a large group of people. The text was a deliberate attempt to incite hatred and you know it.

 

[pono1]

ok
ignoring all references to culture or origin...
Has it occurred to anyone else that we are talking about a group of people who, by definition, have already determined that their "special" circumstances in life are such that the laws do not apply to them?...

Are you referring to our elected officials?

 

[Bodisathva]

Are you referring to our elected officials?

ahhh...I see you know PA's illustrious Governor Rendell (although that could be another thread in itself )

 

[Terri321]

The problem is Ken is that they have been participating... a quote from that link:



Yes they are illegal but it is also participation. They WANT to participate. They HAVE BEEN participating for years. They have served a clear purpose to our society ...cheap labor which can be used as a beast of burden. But look what happens when this beast starts to talk back... from your follow-up quote



They get likened to murderers and pestilence. It's disgusting. No matter how you look at it, these immigrants are human and they will voice their opinion. The only way to stop that is to dehumanise them by comparing them to locusts and thus deny them their human qualities. Both sides are responsible, both sides are human. One side are illegal but this does not mean they are insects.

Yes Ken the situation is complicated but this does not mean we are dealing with terrorists. They are not flying planes into buildings and they are not driving car bombs into bus stops. If they cease working for a single day that means both the employers and illegal immigrants will not be breaking those employment laws that day. The situation will actually be more legal! How can a person be classed as a terrorist by the cessation of a criminal act for a day?
They can't, it's a simple exposure of the hypocrisy of American society.

If immigrants cant find jobs. They will steal things or vandalize property.
Causing mayhem, this will be an attack of a different sort on we the people.
We need stricture tightening up on freedom of speech; who knows what those immigrants might say. I propose we are going to need more cameras and tracking devices to see what people are up to. Someone needs to tell them what to do and how to behave in our country.

Terri321

 

[Rich]

If immigrants cant find jobs. They will steal things or vandalize property.
Causing mayhem, this will be an attack of a different sort on we the people.
We need stricture tightening up on freedom of speech; who knows what those immigrants might say. I propose we are going to need more cameras and tracking devices to see what people are up to. Someone needs to tell them what to do and how to behave in our country.

Terri321

That's the same sort of crap that Hitler and his cronies spouted against Jews!
Hell you'll be telling us next Lincoln freed the slaves

 

[Bodisathva]

We need stricture tightening up on

(STRIK-chur). A narrowing of a passageway. For example, esophageal stricture is the narrowing of the esophagus. Also called stenosis​

hmmm...I'll beat Matt to this one. I'm willing to bet that's not what you meant

tightening up on freedom of speech; who knows what those immigrants might say. I propose we are going to need more cameras and tracking devices to see what people are up to. Someone needs to tell them what to do and how to behave in our country.

...so, Terri...exactly what planet are you from?