Riots in the USA - just an excuse to let off energy? (1 Viewer)

[GinaWhipp]

@Jon

I think people will always have a subjective view based on skin colour. Not just skin colour, but also other factors. These include: country of origin, if you are local or not, age, height, sex, sexuality, accent, class, history (if known), job title, BMI, education, political affiliation, personality traits (both environmentally develop and genetic), strength, power (e.g. due to wealth or job or credentials etc).

I will agree with the above statement, though I think environment can skew your view almost like indoctrination. Using the 5 monkeys in the cage with the bananas scenario we see how *easily* your view can be distorted...
https://www.kelleramerica.com/five-...cage containing,other monkeys with cold water.

Whatever is going to happen going forward will not happen over night and these knee-jerk reactions I keep seeing seem *silly* and rushed. I get the urgency some people are feeling, after all every *promise* made has fallen by the wayside or got lost in the red tape abyss. This is an uphill *battle* and the hill is steep, going to a while.

I read a book several years ago called "Up from Slavery", by Booker T. Washington. Gina, is that book known in the black community? It was insightful over the struggles the black community had to face back in the day. The progression of civil rights has come a long way since then, but I think it takes generations for a new set of wiring to be instilled in the brains of others. Your thoughts?

I read that book ages ago but thanks for the reminder, I should yank that puppy out and read it again.

I would feel comfortable saying that in the circle of people I know that book is well known. I can't speak to what happens outside my circle of family and friends (Black and White). (I was a Liberal Arts major in college.) I would also recommend W.E.B Dubois Biography of a Race by David Levering Lewis.

 

[GinaWhipp]

I missed that article about the professor, which is ridiculously shameful. Can someone post a link to that please?

Mumbling under my breath... What is wrong with kids today? There will ALWAYS something that *threatens* your deadline. It's call LIFE!

 

[Pat Hartman]

Good luck with that I'll shut up and hope you get something rational in response. I think most of the people participating in this thread are middle/right given that we haven't had any explosions or name calling so far.

I don't know if you've ever heard Ben Shapiro but here's one of my favorite speeches of his where he discusses 10 techniques for talking to people on the left.

 

[Isaac]

I missed that article about the professor, which is ridiculously shameful. Can someone post a link to that please?

UCLA professor suspended, under police protection after threats

A California college professor is reportedly being investigated for discrimination and under police protection after refusing a request to exempt black students from final exams in the wake of George Floyd's death.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Jon]

@Pat Hartman Yes, I know his stuff well. Ironically, he often gets called a Nazi, despite being a Jew! I think I've also seen that video too. I've seen many of them.

Have you seen any of Milo's stuff? His is a bit more on the humorous side.

 

[Jon]

@GinaWhipp

I think environment can skew your view almost like indoctrination.

I agree. If I was born in Pakistan, the probability of me being a Muslim would be very high. Location determines beliefs to a large degree.

I read that book ages ago but thanks for the reminder, I should yank that puppy out and read it again.

I often disagree with what people in the black community say, maybe because there is also a big overlap with the left. But I do believe that if during school there was a necessity to read something like the above mentioned book, it can help give insight, context and understanding towards our fellow citizens. I just wish we could all get along, but I know some people will hate me just for my political leanings.

I would also like perhaps to add that maybe racism is less prominent in the UK than in the US. Just my feeling. Only 3% of our population is black as opposed to 13% in the States. Maybe racial issues become more noticeable when you have a larger percentage of the population involved.

 

[GinaWhipp]

UCLA professor suspended, under police protection after threats

A California college professor is reportedly being investigated for discrimination and under police protection after refusing a request to exempt black students from final exams in the wake of George Floyd's death.

www.foxnews.com

Thanks!

 

[GinaWhipp]

I often disagree with what people in the black community say, maybe because there is also a big overlap with the left.

Hmm, never thought of that, leaning left instead of right. My *leanings* tend to be more middle ground. I can see the either side and even understand each side. I don't always agree 100% but not going to discount it.

 

[Steve R.]

I would also like perhaps to add that maybe racism is less prominent in the UK than in the US. Just my feeling. Only 3% of our population is black as opposed to 13% in the States. Maybe racial issues become more noticeable when you have a larger percentage of the population involved.

One of the several flaws related to solving racial equality (diversity) that is not openly discussed: who does that person appointed/elected/hired for a job represent. In theory, that person (while bringing extra perspective) to solve a problems, will base there decision on an unbiased rationale evaluation of how best to solve problem. The flaw is that person may have an implicit bias to represent his/her minority group and make partisan decisions that favor their group. As an extreme example, Biden has already proclaimed, in the name of diversity, that he will be selecting a vice-Presidential candidate and a potential Supreme Court nominee (should he win) based on their left wing political bias. This waters down the very concept of racial (diversity) equality and promotes Balkanization rather than healing the wounds of divisive politics.

 

[Jon]

@GinaWhipp One thing that I thought about late last night was a movie I watched where John Travolta was a pizza delivery boy. It is called "White Man's Burden". The film is quite old now but it was a depiction of a reversed society, where all the whites were poor and the blacks were rich.

In the past, I would perhaps complain of the black community complaining about this or that. I felt convinced of my views. Then, after watching this movie, I thought to myself, "I get it!" What was too opaque and difficult to understand became completely obvious when the roles were reversed. I remember a scene where there were, from memory, a couple of black police officers who came into a white neighbourhood, and treated the white person particularly roughly. It did not seem particularly racist if you consider what they did initially, but it kinda felt racist. He (Travolta) was treated unfairly, but there was no evidence that it was because of his race. (Yes, some might say, "He fit the description" line as being racist, but for me that is just that he fit the description!). I think perhaps the feeling of racism was there because the context was in a backdrop of overall racism towarrds the whites. Consequently, there is a hightened sensitivity towards it. There is completely over the top police brutality so make what you like of this clip.

This was a revelation to me! It was a long time ago that I watched this movie, but I did learn something. A view I was certain of was shaken once I went from the intellectual understanding, or a priori reasoning, to something more vicarious and experiential.

Insight can be hidden in plain view. I don't think we can blame anybody about this, because we did not design how our minds evolved. But we can learn the lessons and expose ourselves to experiences that may advance our wisdom.

The police scene is at 4:55m into this clip:

 

[Isaac]

I saw that movie years ago and it impacted me as well. While it didn't really open up anything new in my mind about what is or isn't racism, it definitely moved me as to how it would feel to experience it - very very unique idea for a movie, well done.

 

[Jon]

I think it is hard to shift views, which makes it all the more amazing the impact this movie managed to have on myself and perhaps others. It has been slated on IMDB rating wise, but who knows, maybe that is for other reasons.

For those who don't know anything about the author of the book I mentioned, "Up From Slavery", he is considered the most influential person in black history, or at least that is my understanding from the following video. The video has nice little cartoons too.

 

[GinaWhipp]

@Jon
Yep, I saw that movie and all I can remember thinking... "walk a mile in my shoes" put on screen. I think it did\does show the *quietness* of bias. I can't say it changed my views though who knows, doesn't everything that happens *to* you change you? Just watching that clip made me realize two things, one another movie added to my watch list and I wonder if that is what scares people... they (and I mean no specific race) will do unto you as you have done unto them (and again no specific race here). Hmm, I wonder if the latter is what scares people most.

 

[Jon]

I do not expect the movie to change the views of a black person. I think it has a reasonably strong chance of changing some views of a white person. (It would be great if someone here watched it, who hasn't seen it before and reported back!)

One argumentation method I like to use is reversal. I might say, "Did you know that Donald Trump said that if you don't vote for him, you ain't black? What do you think of that comment?" "Bloody disgraceful, the racist!", comes the reply. But of course, this is an obvious case because we know Joe Biden said it. But when applied to cases where someone doesn't already know the answer, when you do the reveal, there is usually some kind of mental shenanigans going on to justify that what they categorically said was wrong, isn't necessarily wrong. It always makes me smile.

Edit: What I am trying to say, if it wasn't clear, is that to gain insight, you sometimes have to flip things around. That is precisely what the Travolta movie did.

 

[Isaac]

when you do the reveal, there is usually some kind of mental shenanigans going on to justify that what they categorically said was wrong, isn't necessarily wrong. It always makes me smile

Ha ha - good one. What this reveals about a person (or onesself) is a too-blind loyalty to a person. I try to combat this problem in myself by refusing to judge people by individual soundbites. I refuse to agree that such and such is "wrong" or "right" until I know the CONTEXT more fully. Context is everything.

A lot of people will say, "But Surely that's not always the case, I mean what if a person said such-and-such? You wouldn't immediately denounce it as wrong?" Yeah, nope - I refuse to. Context is everything.

 

[Jon]

There are lots of YouTube videos of this being used on college campuses. One young Conservative was on campus approaching students, and saying that Trump increased his wealth by 30x during his presidency. What do you think of that? The replies were generally, 'That is disgusting, it shouldn't be allowed it." Later the reveal came: "Actually, it was Obama who increased his wealth by 30 times. Trumps wealth has fallen in half. What do you think now?" There is normally a smile, a bit of confusion and some trying to squirt off the argument in another direction. i.e. No one seems to care about the truth. Only manipulating the facts to support their cherry picked view.

 

[GinaWhipp]

I think it is hard to shift views, which makes it all the more amazing the impact this movie managed to have on myself and perhaps others. It has been slated on IMDB rating wise, but who knows, maybe that is for other reasons.

For those who don't know anything about the author of the book I mentioned, "Up From Slavery", he is considered the most influential person in black history, or at least that is my understanding from the following video. The video has nice little cartoons too.

Little known fact, when the boll weevil threatened the the cotton crop Booker developed a rotation of plantings, corn and peanuts to save the *industry*. And for his good works they built a statue to the boll weevil. Hmm, I am starting to think building *statues* to the losers has somehow become a tradition.

 

[Isaac]

There are lots of YouTube videos of this being used on college campuses. One of them was saying that Trump increased his wealth by 30x during his presidency. What do you think of that. The replies were generally, 'That is disgusting, it shouldn't be allowed it." Later the reveal came: "Actually, it was Obama who increased his wealth by 30 times. Trumps wealth has fallen in half. What do you think now?" There is normally a smile, a bit of confusion and some trying to squirt off the argument in another direction.

That's awesome

 

[Pat Hartman]

some kind of mental shenanigans going on to justify that what they categorically said was wrong, isn't necessarily wrong

The psychology term for that is Cognitive Dissonance. The classroom examples asks someone their opinion on a topic and then offers to pay them to write a paper supporting the opposite position. The amount of money offered varies by person. When asked to justify their written opinion, the people who were paid the most will readily admit that they were paid to write what they did although they don't actually believe it but the subjects who were paid little or nothing tended to justify their written position with fervor.

I'm not really sure how this relates to the hypocrisy we see but I think is comes from people actually recognizing how stupid their original position was but defending it to the death rather than being willing to admit they were duped by the Democrats and the media.

I've seen a lot of the videos and not one of the subjects seems to change his mind even when his opinion is proven false. You can't present facts to someone who has drunk the cool-aid. They will simply not acknowledge them. It's like watching a robot being given conflicting orders. Their heads twitch and they say "does not compute" and the loop finally times out as they walk away with glazed eyes.

I love the increasing wealth 30x measure for Obama. I knew it was high but I didn't realize how high. Maybe he got kickbacks from Clinton and Biden since they re raking it in right and left with their access selling schemes. Just FYI, this is why Hillary had the private server. Obama told her to shut down the Clinton Foundation and she didn't and she didn't want an accident in an email so she made sure that her emails were sheltered from the Freedom of Information Act and couldn't be subpoenaed by the public or Congress without first being sanitized by her people.

 

[isladogs]

Just for the record, most of the increased wealth during the Obama presidency was due to royalties on his book sales.
Of course, if Pat has any evidence to justify her suggestion of 'kickbacks', I'm sure she will share it with us