Riots in the USA - just an excuse to let off energy? (1 Viewer)

AccessBlaster

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The reason Officer Chauvin was not charged with 1st degree murder is because he would have been acquitted. No premeditation, yet people seem to be stumped by this.
 

Isaac

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I'm sure Minnesota has a lot of criminal caselaw about what might constitute premeditation, and probably viewpoints on both sides as to whether this might qualify. But having said that, it definitely seems prudent of the A.G. to bring only charges they have max confidence can lead to a conviction. No use aiming too high and losing.
 

AccessBlaster

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They can't prove he woke up intending to do this, in fact they may not have ever met.
 

Isaac

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Yes - it definitely seems to be an element likely unmet.
 

The_Doc_Man

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I cannot speak for Minnesota law, but I have served on Louisiana juries where we were allowed to make "responsive" verdicts. The D.A. could toss the highest possible charge but allow it to be responsive, which means we were allowed to vote on the highest charge, but if that failed we had the option to vote on the second-highest charge. I.e. the jury could decide "NO" on Murder 1 but go back and on the same facts and trial, decide "YES" on Murder 2. And if that failed, "Murder 3" would be available.

In the more specific case where I saw this in action, we reduced "Aggravated Attempted ra**" to "Forcible Attempted ra**" but agreed that what happened was more aggressive than "Simple Attempted ra**." So we returned "GUILTY" on Forcible ra**. We also chose to convict on "Aggravated Crime Against Nature" and "Aggravated Armed Robbery." I'll spare you the narrative. The evidence was pretty much a slam dunk, though.
 

AccessBlaster

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Here comes the demands for Washington D.C. In particular lets squeeze in #3 "Decriminalize marijuana". That right there tells you everything you need to know. I am not Mr anti pot legislation but wasn't this about Mr.Floyd?

Also if you defund Police agency's will not black on black crime soar? Black on black crime is the real issue for young black males, police crime against young black males is a decimal point compared to black on black crime.

Edit: Not trying delegitimize Mr. Floyd's death in anyway it was wrong period.

Concerned Citizens DC Protest Demands
User avatar

@anonymous · 15h

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

We are simply concerned citizens of Washington, DC. We want to bring organization to the White House protests while bringing us all under a common goal. Seeing as all of us as protestors want justice, we the people have formed a list of demands that we would like both the local DC municipality as well as the federal government to address with swift action. They are as follows:

1. Charges for the 4 officers involved in the death of George Floyd

2. Justice for Breonna Taylor and charges for all officers involved in her extrajudicial killing

3. Decriminalize marijuana and retroactively vacate the sentences of those arrested for non-violent drug offenses. In many of these instances, media reports cite “marijuana in the system” of victims slain by police brutality. Decriminalizing marijuana gives less power to that narrative.

4. Mandatory civilian review boards in every city. As it has been established, officers nationwide lack accountability. For an officer who knows that he can kill an unarmed black man or woman and only get paid desk duty as a result, anything less than that is just business as usual. We must change this reality and empower citizens of the communities being policed to hold their local forces accountable. The officer who had his foot on George Floyd’s neck had 18 complaints. He should have never been on the streets

5. Nationwide commitment by police forces to end brutal practices (chokeholds, kneeling on necks etc). We need to revisit the use of force practices and eliminate conduct that places suspects at extreme harm once in custody.

6. DC Statehood. The 700,000 Washingtonians in DC are the living breathing example of taxation without representation. We have all the same obligations but now of the same rights. This became clearer this week when Trump deployed military against peaceful protesters in a minority majority (47% black) locale. That would have never been able to happen if DC had statehood

7. Defunding MPD in favor of community policing practices through violence interrupters that have been proven to work in DC. The MPD receives over 500,000,000 a year but violence interrupters have not seen deserved funding for years. A budget is a moral document. A budget outlines the priorities of a just society. It speaks to the moral fabric of the leadership of said society. We must make sure the finalized budget is a reflection of the values we hold dear as DC.

8. Shift from punitive to rehabilitative model in prison system.

9. Echoing the words of Killer Mike, we demand that concerned citizens across this nation reflect that concern in spaces that will affect decision making. We encourage everybody to participate in the US Census and to vote. We will be responsible for the change we want to see by holding elected officials accountable. We encourage everyday citizens to organize locally around the issues most important to their community

10. See this moment for what it is and learn empathy. We are human. Our lives matter. Donald Trump, the protests across the nation and the initial acts of brutality that inspired them are symptoms of America’s most dangerous disease- Racism. Up until now, racism is as American as apple pie and baseball. The ground had been stained with innocent black blood for centuries. We are fighting now for what America will be, but in order to do that we must first be intellectually honest about what America has been and work with intention to heal the pain suffered as a result.
 

NauticalGent

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Here comes the demands for Washington D.C. In particular lets squeeze in #3 "Decriminalize marijuana". That right there tells you everything you need to know. I am not Mr anti pot legislation but wasn't this about Mr.Floyd?

Also if you defund Police agency's will not black on black crime soar? Black on black crime is the real issue for young black males, police crime against young black males is a decimal point compared to black on black crime.

Edit: Not trying delegitimize Mr. Floyd's death in anyway it was wrong period.
A good politician NEVER lets a tragedy go to waste...
 

Steve R.

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@AccessBlaster: The list of demands of demands is another example of how we are having a (modern) version of the French Revolution. As one small point, they want to do away with the police for claimed brutality. OK, but what would they replace the police with? A Committee of Public Safety that will declare you guilty of "crimes against the State" as they arbitrarily define it?

How will that end "brutality" by the State. Like the song (We Won't be fooled Again, by the Who) goes, "the new boss, same as the old boss". I would contend that it would actually be worse since the "Committee of Public Safety" would consider anyone in oppostion to their poltical ideals as an "enemy of the State". Free speech would not be allowed (the suppression of free speech by the radical left is already occurring).

My main reason for responding is point #6.
6. DC Statehood. The 700,000 Washingtonians in DC are the living breathing example of taxation without representation. We have all the same obligations but now of the same rights. This became clearer this week when Trump deployed military against peaceful protesters in a minority majority (47% black) locale. That would have never been able to happen if DC had statehood
This is an exceptionally false narrative. It is also obscuring the (political) fact that his will give Democrats guaranteed (Democratic) congress people. It is also incomprehensible that this story never "dies", just keeps getting resurrected.

Washington DC is a federal district, it was never meant to be a state. Ironically, the reason for that was to prevent it from being politicized. The land comprising Washington DC was "loaned" to the federal government by both Virginia and Maryland. The Virgina portion was returned to Virginian control. So the only portion remaining "belongs" to Maryland. The appropriate solution, should one really care about taxation without representation, would be to return jurisdiction to the state of Maryland. This simple obvious answer somehow never seems to be presented, which documents that those pushing for Washington DC statehood are simply after the getting more Democrats into office. If they were really concerned with taxation without represnetaion, they would endorse returning jurisdiction of the area to Maryland.
 
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Jon

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#CopsLivesMatter

Why should the cop that was recently shot dead - so a rioter could steal a TV - be basically ignored by the mainstream media (apart from Fox News)? Is the standard that if you are an off duty cop, your life doesn't matter?

Minneapolis Police Use Force Against Black People at 7 Times the Rate of Whites
The New York Times·1 day ago
These sorts of quotes are disgraceful attempts to distort the truth, by implying that if you are black, you are discriminated against at 7x the rate of whites. But if you delve deeper into these sorts of statistics, you can get to the truth. Crime rises where there is poverty, and there is more poverty and unemployment within the black communities. The prison statistics suggest that if you are black, there is a 7x approximate increase in the likelihood of rapes, murder, violent crime etc. Someone can fact check that if they want, but its from memory. Given that, you are likely to use force against black people at a much higher rate because the nature of the crimes are more violent, at 7x the rate of whites.

So, for journalistic integrities sake, at least try to represent the truth, rather than pure politicking, spreading a pack of lies.

It seems ironic that Trump is getting blasted by blacks, when he is the one helping them the most. With the lowest levels of black unemployment on record, he is at least addressing one key factor that leads to poverty, which then correlates to crime. And don't forget the prison reforms he is doing, to attempt to reduce the cycle of violence by repeat offending. Give credit where credit is due.

I say, ban the discriminatory group #BlackLivesMatter and just stick with #AllLivesMatter. All our lives matter, equally.
 

Steve R.

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Gun control advocates claim that gun ownership should be severely restricted and controlled, based on irresponsible mass shooting events. As a result of the rioting, gun sales have understandably surged. After all, if the police can't protect you (those on the left do not want the police to protect citizens (eliminate the police)), then how are you to protect yourself?

If what the gun control advocates assertions are true, then there is an obvious question to ask after this period of violence and rioting. Where are all the dead bodies? Where are the emotional sob pictures of dead women and children shot by insane crazed gun owners?
 
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NauticalGent

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If what the gun control advocates assertions are true, then there is an obvious question to ask after this period of violence and rioting. Where are all the dead bodies? Where are the emotional sob pictures of dead women and children shot by insane crazed gun owners?
Careful now Steve...introducing logic only confuses the issue.
 

NauticalGent

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Yes, the Clinton machine produced that quote I believe.
That has been the mantra for EVERY administration since Wall Street collapsed in 1929. Both parties have sold us out, including the current administration.

I hate to admit that I actually like DJT, but it is for all the wrong reason(s): He pisses all the right people off! But he has simply continued a cycle/machine that continues to rob USA citizens of our rights. He is in a position to right a few wrongs from his predecessors yet has not done so.
 

AccessBlaster

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That has been the mantra for EVERY administration since Wall Street collapsed in 1929. Both parties have sold us out, including the current administration.

I hate to admit that I actually like DJT, but it is for all the wrong reason(s): He pisses all the right people off! But he has simply continued a cycle/machine that continues to rob USA citizens of our rights. He is in a position to right a few wrongs from his predecessors yet has not done so.

I figured it was like "it's the economy stupid." How apropos is that quote now?
 

Pat Hartman

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While, the charges against the cops are increasing, the mitigating factors are also increasing (drugs in George's system, a COVID-19 infection, etc) which hopefully won't excuse the fact that kneeling on a non-threatening person for 8 minutes is inexcusable as is standing by and allowing it to happen.
 

Isaac

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To me there is a bit of coincidence of them both working at the same nightclub and having very probably known each other at least by sight. May very well just be a meaningless coincidence. Or it may be something else - something they both knew that one of them wanted the other one to be dead.

This whole thing is so much more horrible than it needed to have been. One man died horribly, and then a bunch of people have now caused the death of a dozen (dozens?) of additional people, and countless people physically brutalized and their cities destroyed. When I was little I was taught a very valuable phrase that still guides me today: "Two wrongs don't make a right". A lot of these timeless old sayings just really hold true. Don't they realize that these riots are only going to make whoever they perceive as "the other side", just dig in harder? Because at the end of the day, almost everyone wants SAFETY = law & order. I'm not talking as much for myself as just stepping back and thinking of the political calculations here. If they felt white suburbanites were evil before, wait until they really start to feel threatened by this, people are only going to dig in.

And ironically, while two wrongs don't make a right, two wrongs (all the illegitimate rioting & violence) actually might cause those who did tend more racist to perceive a moral equivalency at that point - which will NOT help blacks.
 

Steve R.

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Some historical perspective. The Great Society:
"The Great Society was an ambitious series of policy initiatives, legislation and programs spearheaded by President Lyndon B. Johnson with the main goals of ending poverty, reducing crime, abolishing inequality and improving the environment. In May 1964, President Lyndon B. Johnson laid out his agenda for a “Great Society” during a speech at the University of Michigan. With his eye on re-election that year, Johnson set in motion his Great Society, the largest social reform plan in modern history."
Most of the policies were passed into law in 1964 or soon after.

Biden was elected to the US Senate in 1972 and has asserted that he is a "leader" in supporting these programs. Obama/Biden assumed the top US leadership positions in January 2009. In November 2016 Trump was elected, the Obama/Biden administration was in charge for eight years.

Currently the news related to the death of George Floyd is how his unfortunate death is a wake-up call that should trigger fundamental structural change in US society. That narrative overlooks that:
  1. 56 years ago more aggressive actions were initiated to assist minorities in the US. These policies have continued, such as affirmative action.
  2. Democrats, of whom Biden is one, have been in leaderships positions at various times, yet these problems were never solved.
The death of George Floyd is unfortunate and is a reflection of continued problems, but it was not a wake-up call for a malaise affecting US culture. That leads me to the point. Biden, after years of supposed leadership on these issues has not brought the US "together" to create any meaningful programs that actually solved racial inequality, he (like many politicians) has merely kicked the can done the road. Given Biden's legacy of failing to provide valid leadership and the failure of the Obama/Biden administration to address inequality, it is remarkable that much of the media, while reporting on the rioting, casually imply Biden has the expertise to bring the US "together" and "heal" it. The media needs to look into the mirror and recognize that this country, for 56 years has instituted programs to solve racial inequality and that these problems still persist because certain politicians do not actually have the personal commitment to solve them (despite what the may verbally say).
 

AccessBlaster

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LA County Sheriff Will No Longer Enforce Curfews
Hopefully this goes well!
 

The_Doc_Man

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I've said this before and I'll say it again. The previous attempts to "throw money at the problem" were ineffective because nobody did the required follow-up investigations that the thrown money was reaching its target vs. being diverted into some contractor's pockets.
 

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