Riots in the USA - just an excuse to let off energy? (1 Viewer)

Local time
Today, 01:54
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
2,212
Why does this matter?
Obviously is does matter, you injected Trump to divert the attention away from Biden and Prince Andrew. You see the double standard but it's okay cause its your guy or party or whatever you are aligned with.

I'm just pointing human nature.
 

GinaWhipp

AWF VIP
Local time
Today, 04:54
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
5,675
Hmm, passing by...

Just a question, is anyone in the conversation Black? African-American? Has anyone in this conversation had a conversation with any Black person? African-American person? I ask because I just went thru all three pages and I might have missed it but no one seems to have injected the key word... *equality*.

Pardon the interrupt, I'll be moving along now...
 
Local time
Today, 01:54
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
2,212
Ouch! Gina scores a zinger from left field, nice.
 

pbaldy

Wino Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Today, 01:54
Joined
Aug 30, 2003
Messages
34,242
Hmm, passing by...

Just a question, is anyone in the conversation Black? African-American? Has anyone in this conversation had a conversation with any Black person? African-American person? I ask because I just went thru all three pages and I might have missed it but no one seems to have injected the key word... *equality*.

Pardon the interrupt, I'll be moving along now...
I haven’t been involved with this discussion, but I can answer yes to one of your questions. Gina, you should stay and offer your thoughts and insights. If what you suspect is true, they would be a valuable addition to the discussion and the people taking part in it.

Keeping in mind the original question (which was not actually intended to start a discussion, just vent some anti-American zingers) I’ll offer a couple of thoughts. About a week ago there was a protest organized in our area. We didn’t go, primarily because of the covid situation. We are still isolating, haven’t even been out to a restaurant yet.

The protest started peacefully in the afternoon, but got ugly in the evening. The majority of the protesters were white by the way. According to the news people on site the crowd “self-escalated”. By the end they had vandalized a police station and city hall. They had set fire to cars and vandalized a number of businesses and vehicles (graffiti, broken windows, etc). There had not been any police action to trigger it, but the police did use tear gas once the crowd became aggressive.

From what I saw on the news, the police were remarkably restrained. They had people screaming obscenities in their faces, throwing water bottles and rocks. They just stood behind a barricade. We have not had a “George Floyd” type incident here. Why scream at the police here? They haven't done anything wrong. Why vandalize cars and businesses that happened to be nearby? They may well have been owned by people of color, the people you're supposedly protesting in support of. The crowd didn’t care; they just seemed to want to create havoc.

The original protest was appropriate and I fully support it. The following actions, which I’m sure were perpetrated by a small minority, were completely out of line and frankly divert attention from the very real issues that prompted the protest in the first place.
 

GinaWhipp

AWF VIP
Local time
Today, 04:54
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
5,675
I haven’t been involved with this discussion, but I can answer yes to one of your questions. Gina, you should stay and offer your thoughts and insights. If what you suspect is true, they would be a valuable addition to the discussion and the people taking part in it.

Keeping in mind the original question (which was not actually intended to start a discussion, just vent some anti-American zingers) I’ll offer a couple of thoughts. About a week ago there was a protest organized in our area. We didn’t go, primarily because of the covid situation. We are still isolating, haven’t even been out to a restaurant yet.

The protest started peacefully in the afternoon, but got ugly in the evening. The majority of the protesters were white by the way. According to the news people on site the crowd “self-escalated”. By the end they had vandalized a police station and city hall. They had set fire to cars and vandalized a number of businesses and vehicles (graffiti, broken windows, etc). There had not been any police action to trigger it, but the police did use tear gas once the crowd became aggressive.

From what I saw on the news, the police were remarkably restrained. They had people screaming obscenities in their faces, throwing water bottles and rocks. They just stood behind a barricade. We have not had a “George Floyd” type incident here. Why scream at the police here? They haven't done anything wrong. Why vandalize cars and businesses that happened to be nearby? They may well have been owned by people of color, the people you're supposedly protesting in support of. The crowd didn’t care; they just seemed to want to create havoc.

The original protest was appropriate and I fully support it. The following actions, which I’m sure were perpetrated by a small minority, were completely out of line and frankly divert attention from the very real issues that prompted the protest in the first place.
The reason I popped in was to *see* what people thought about the *rioting* but after reading some of the replies... I felt like people were missing the point. I don't know how much insight I can offer except to say...

Let's get this put of the way, I in no way condone the looting or the *rioting*. I get the reaction, I understand the exhaustion and I feel the *pain*, it is the expression I strongly disagree with. It seems utterly *crazy* to burn your own *house* down because the neighbors house burnt down but, again, I get it. And, perhaps, this is their collective grief manifesting itself and they can't think past that.

I have focused on looking past of that and what I am now seeing. People, and I am by no means calling anyone out just using a generic term, think we *want* something, like give me a job and isn't that enough (just a metaphor). Really? Not looking for some handout would just like to be treated equally. Here are some examples...

-I walk into an Apple store and first I am followed. Then I am reminded I am in an Apple store and the items there are expensive and maybe I want to go find a cheaper store. When I finally find what I want I have to first find a Salesperson that doesn't treat me like a thief to even get the items I want. And if I am stuck with the one that thinks I can't ready the price on a tag even a visually impaired person could read I am them treated with disdain because I had the nerve to ask for two iPads, two iPens and an iPhone 11 Pro. (Yep, really happened, so talking from personal experience.)

-Told that *I can't possibly get paid that* and they didn't even back, *Black people don't make that kind of money.* Really?

-When I walk into Pottery Barn I immediately have shadow... a Security Guard or a Salesperson.

-I shown up for an in-person interview and before they can check themselves the say, *Oh, you're black.* Really?

-I had to file a police report and when he came to the door he had his hand on his gun until he saw my white neighbor who I asked to come over because we have had an incident where the guy who owned the house was waiting in HIS driveway for the police and they shot him thinking he was the burglar. Thank goodness he lived and settled with the PD.

These are just a FEW examples I could go on for hours, days but I would hope you get the point. I don't need a *hand out*. Don't do my any special favors. You can shove *Affirmative Action* (going to take heat for that I know). I would just like to be treated equally. That is something I shouldn't have to beg for. H*ll, that is something we should ALL have. It just seems we are not allowed to ask for *nicely*, it's frowned upon and even criminalized. America has an ugly history deeply;y rooted in racism not just with African-Americans\Blacks. It keeps getting shoved under the rug. Well, the *rug* can't hold any more, it is rotting. I believe George Floyd was the last thread and the people are now saying *enough*.

I am blessed, I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood and went to private school (my Mom worked two shifts to pay for that). I went to college when I was just shy of 17 (my bother was 16). I have worked since I was 18 and lived on my own since I was 22. I develop databases for Fortune 500 companies. I own a home. I pay my taxes. So, why do I get treated like I am less than? I am exhausted navigating *America* as a black woman.

It's not a *riot*, it's a scream for equality. And while I will grant that some are out there for less than honorable reasons, I would hope that there are those who will look past those few and hear the cry for equality.
 

The_Doc_Man

Happy Retired Curmudgeon
Local time
Today, 03:54
Joined
Feb 28, 2001
Messages
17,072
Gina, I want to float something by you and hope you won't take it the wrong way. I am trying in my clumsy way to be constructive on this topic. Whether I succeed is anybody's guess, but ... here goes nothing.

The scream for white people to change is misdirected. There is a need for society as a whole to change. RIght, wrong, or indifferent, a lot of what you complain about stems from people acting based on racial stereotypes - but those sterotypes cannot have come into existence in a vacuum. They have a basis in history. We can discuss causes and effects until we are BOTH blue in the face. But that's the past. Change can only occur in the future, and the question is how we can get there productively. We have to learn how each other sees us.

Nobody wants to talk about it but there are hotels in New Orleans that will not take bookings for Essence Fest every year because their rooms get trashed by out-of-towners who don't know how to behave in a hotel. I have friends in the hospitality industry down here (because after all, New Orleans IS a tourist town) and they tell me horror stories of rooms damaged so badly that the TVs have to be replaced and paneling needs either repair or replacement.

Modern police don't take training on how to brutalize black people - but they DO take training on how to respond when faced with aggression and violence. George Floyd got treatment he truly didn't deserve, but there are many cases out there, well-documented and often backed up with body-cam footage, to demonstrate an enemy relationship between police and black people. Often not merely enmity but outright shooting resistance. The police often don't have time to analyze once the bullets start flying and we know that the statistics aren't good when that happens. Black-on-black crime is abnormally high and a lot of the inner city shooting galleries are based on gang warfare; rivalries for influence, drug traffic, prostitution, and other vices. Oh, HELL yes, whites have that problem too. But the proportions seem skewed from the news that we see and hear in news media.

That might seem unkind, but the point is that nobody recognizes the origin of the current problem. And therein lies the danger. If we ignore history we are doomed to repeat it. The provocations for stereotyping require effort to be corrected. We CANNOT just say, "Let's change." We have to ALSO say, "How did we get here so that we can learn to avoid that in the future." Otherwise, we will be revisiting this problem in a decade.

We have to change ALL of society. All lives have to matter - and at the moment each group is focusing on themselves to the exclusion of others. It is just another manifestation of the "ME" generation. Whites are doing it. Blacks are doing it. Hispanics have their own thing going. We ALL have to agree that ALL lives matter whether we are talking black, white, yellow, brown, red, ... or purple if that's what you have. Unilateral change just ain't gonna happen.

My own background might be instructive. My dad was a terrible racist. I grew up with a daily dose of his mantra - but my mom worked with black people in her office and when I, as a child, was disrespectful to black people, she tanned my hide. I grew up in the era when schools were not highly integrated. In fact, I can't recall a black schoolmate in my high school years. Then when I got to college and started to take classes with black people, I saw that my dad's viewpoint was wrong. I can't begin to tell you how often we clashed over his unreasoned disdain for blacks. He died with that hatred in his heart. What made my change my beliefs was simple: I had the chance to talk with the one thing that would have destroyed his mind-set - an educated, intelligent, friendly black person who didn't mind that I was white. And I realized it didn't make a difference that he was black. Frank P. and I never hung out that much but when we did, there was no hatred or animosity or stuff like that. The solution to dispelling my father's GUFF was information - simply to get to know the person about whom you had misgivings.

I think what has to happen here is a dialog. But in the STRICT sense of that word. It can't be a black monolog. It HAS to be a dialog. It can't be what the Liberal/Socialist Democrats want to do. All they ever do is throw money at the problem - but the money never makes it to the intended target because whatever contractor is tasked with administration has to skim a large percentage off the top first, in an environment of minimal government oversight and accounting for the expenditures. And because of that poor oversight, nothing useful gets done. Our approach on ALL sides of the problem must change, including mutual expectations.

Does that make sense?
 

GinaWhipp

AWF VIP
Local time
Today, 04:54
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
5,675
@The_Doc_Man

Made sense and did not take it the wrong way. (I'm a displaced New Yorker. Skin too thick to take anything personally.)

I will say I agree with 90% of what you are saying in that we ALL need to change. We all need to look at yesterday to make sure we don't repeat but we also need to learn where we went wrong. However, therein lies the problem as when you suggest it, I get, the standard that's in the past get over it. Statements like that aren't helpful and actually cause more harm (my opinion). I don't think I'm calling on any one group to change*, not fair nor reasonable. This has to be a collective change. But it is almost like bashing heads against the wall to get people to see change is needed, actually required if we going to live up to what America stands for.

You mention hotel that get trashed. The same happens when college kids show up or conventions. I go to Baton Rouge once a year for business and have become friends with the staff. Trashing rooms is not exclusive to any one group\culture\race. Nothing is exclusive to one group, culture or race. But let me say this... white college kids trash the hotel and next year they get to come back (truth). Black people trash a hotel room and they don't get to come back. Huh? Does that sound equal? Mind you I am not saying either group should be allowed to come back but do you get my point? There are good and bad in every race but they don't get treated equally.

I also find *stereotype* an interesting concept. I find it odd that that word is used more often than not on non-white people. Hmm, I think I know my next assignment is to discover why that is. (Yep, I spend my spare time researching stuff like that because *I want to know*.) Maybe it started with the how non-whites are portrayed in the media which, as we all know, was not kind when I was younger and hasn't gotten much better. For example the white supremacist that burnt the church a few days ago was not mentioned in the news that I saw. I(I found it on AP.) But the black people that looted a store, I think it was Target, was plastered all over the news. So the media not helping either. (Oh, and there was a mention of the white lady in the wheelchair as a victim but they did not bother to mention how she could not only walk but was stabbing black looters and letting the white ones enter safely.) One of the reason I stay away from the cable news (actually most TV news). I want the facts not the slanted facts.

And let me say, doesn't matter who, you mention " Liberal/Socialist Democrats", they ALL throw money at the problem thinking that will solve the issue or quiet us down. (I don't think that any one group can be *blamed* for NOT fixing the problem. It goes way beyond that. Neither one has ever *listened* to know what to do to fix the problem.) I have seen this time and time again. I will compare that to what I said earlier about... I got a job so what else? This is me saying this, keep your money, your programs, your offer to take it under advisement, your bailout... no one wants that and it solves nothing. Just equality, no redlining, no cheating the education system, stop charging me more (and yes that happens), paying me less (but demanding the same job)... just equality. And I know I say it like it's easy and yes I know it's not and will take time. But the first step, what I think is happening now, is to admit there is a problem. Say it out loud, mean it and then let's talk. I believe we are at the *say it out loud* point, at least, I hope that is what I am seeing today. I was on Twitter looking at the protests from around the world and from what I saw, step one has been accomplished. Now comes the hardest part *meaning it* and not just toady but carrying that forward. I don't think this time, and I say that because not like we haven't seen this protesting thing before, anyone is going to let it slide, at least I hope not. Because this is now world wide and if it doesn't change I fear for the next time.
 

Pat Hartman

Super Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Today, 04:54
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
29,021
Thanks NauticalGent, that's great.

Micron, Trump was never accused by anyone that I am aware of that he groped them. You are thinking of a live mike comment. I don't know how much time you've spent around alpha males but locker room talk is fairly common. Whether the "good ol' boys" act on it or not is what counts. The talk may be distasteful but the act is a whole different problem. Biden acts like a gentleman but the operative word here is "act". He has been accused of groping that verges on assault. That doesn't make him guilty but the charge is substantiated by contemporaneous events and is completely ignored by the left leaning media because they like Biden.
 

Tera

Registered User.
Local time
Today, 17:54
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
1,069
Let's be honest this has everything to do with the behavior of your people being arrested and not only the police.
well you may be a little bit correct. But did you see the clips? They were already arrested. Do me a favor. Go to twitter.com and search for #policeBrutaility then select video tab. Watch as many as you like then we can have a talk. Yesterday another two officers were fired because of this. It’s all over media and you must have seen it

http://instagr.am/p/CBH3LvIHIE7/
I’m a foreigner and may don’t know a lot of your situations. But let me tell you this. Your most serious problem is that you don’t know you have a problem. (by you I mean US people). I think your Police has more power than it should have. They are allowed to do whatever they can to arrest and little by little it’s been escalated. They can simply kill people and not be touched. You talk about our people, but you forgot that they are calm because police respects their rights.

Your law bans death penalty, but gives your police the power to kill a suspect even before being arrested. For us it makes no sense. For resisting? Most what we see in news, they are not even resisting. Our Police doesn’t chase suspects. Because they may harm others or themselves. A dead suspect doesn’t prove anything. In these situation they let the suspect run. Later by using surveillance camera of stores, stations, etc they track and arrest them. But never put a finger on them.
 
Last edited:

NauticalGent

CopyPaster of the First Order
Local time
Today, 10:54
Joined
Apr 27, 2015
Messages
2,902
Thanks NauticalGent,
Not sure if it is sarcasm but in case it wasn't, after Gina's posts, I feel a bit like an insensitive jerk.

My intent was to stir up some mischief and not offend anyone. My judgement in these matters could use some improvement...I apologize to anyone if they feel I was making light of this issue.

I tend to not keep up with current events in the US. It's just too exhausting and I do NOT trust the media - at all. While I was living in Itsly, it was easy to ignore, but now that I am back, it is almost impossible...

So much more to say on this but I just do not of the gumption to write it out, instead I will let the only journalist I trust say it for me.

Please listen to the end, Ben Swann "gets it"

 

Jon

Access World Site Owner
Staff member
Local time
Today, 09:54
Joined
Sep 28, 1999
Messages
2,700
Can someone please explain to me why the unlawful death of George Floyd was because of racism? I just don't get it (so far). To me, you need evidence for a such a claim, but I haven't actually seen any.
 

NauticalGent

CopyPaster of the First Order
Local time
Today, 10:54
Joined
Apr 27, 2015
Messages
2,902
Can someone please explain to me why the unlawful death of George Floyd was because of racism? I just don't get it (so far). To me, you need evidence for a such a claim, but I haven't actually seen any.
I refuse to go down that rabbit hole, it takes the attention off the real crime which is a servant of the people was responsible for the death of one of his charges.
 

Jon

Access World Site Owner
Staff member
Local time
Today, 09:54
Joined
Sep 28, 1999
Messages
2,700
I agree that is the real crime. We are on the same page. But the global hysteria and riots do not appear to be about that specifically. Instead, it appears to be about racism. But I haven't seen any evidence of racism. If I said a black man killed a white man because of racism without evidence, is that not a racist statement? You are making assumptions about the motive of the killer based on the colour of their skin. Yet to make assumptions about anyone based on the colour of their skin is, is it not, racist?

The same applies in reverse, it if was a white man who killed a black man. Or if it was a police officer who killer a citizen. You can't assume motive else that is prejudice, or another form of racism. I think we have to be very careful about accusing everybody of racism without evidence, because then it dilutes real racism. Yet, sadly, I think that horse has sadly already bolted.

[Edit: We are all servants of the people, are we not? Else why would we get paid if we do not make a contribution to society? Police are servants of law and order, a database programmer serves others to manage their data.]
 

NauticalGent

CopyPaster of the First Order
Local time
Today, 10:54
Joined
Apr 27, 2015
Messages
2,902
The video I posted alludes to why the real issue is ignored - have you watched it?
 

Jon

Access World Site Owner
Staff member
Local time
Today, 09:54
Joined
Sep 28, 1999
Messages
2,700
Just had a look at it. They want police accountability and don't conflate the rioters with the protesters. But there can be considerable overlap.

Where were the global calls for this accountability when white citizens were unlawfully killed by black police officers? I see none. So, it is all about alledged racism from what I can see, and only white on black, not the other way around.

I recommend viewing the following rant by the rather articulate Candace Owens, and listen to her more facts based assessment of what is going on.


Her argument is essentially that the entire movement is based on a myth, the myth being that black people are treated worse on average compared to white people when they have an encounter with the police. From memory, I think she says that you are more likely to have a fatality if you are white and deal with the police for violent crime than if you are black. Yet I hear no calls from the black community complaining about the racism against whites regarding this matter. If you abhor racism, why in only one direction?
 

NauticalGent

CopyPaster of the First Order
Local time
Today, 10:54
Joined
Apr 27, 2015
Messages
2,902
Agreed and I watched that video a few days ago.

I will try to re-state what I beleive the reason this is going on: the true reason it becomes a race issue is because if we "The People" fight amounts ourselves, we leave the real enemy alone. I know that sounds like the Foil Hat Society, but just because it sounds like a conspiracy theory, does not mean it isnt true.
 

Tera

Registered User.
Local time
Today, 17:54
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
1,069
Can someone please explain to me why the unlawful death of George Floyd was because of racism? I just don't get it (so far). To me, you need evidence for a such a claim, but I haven't actually seen any.
You may get upset with this reply, but I really think if you’re looking for an answer, you should put your support for president trump aside and look at the events from a neutralized point of view.

You give evidence of white being killed by black but you don’t pay attention to the rate.
 

Jon

Access World Site Owner
Staff member
Local time
Today, 09:54
Joined
Sep 28, 1999
Messages
2,700
I don't like the ranting videos because they can be a bit unpleasant to watch, but she spews out a lot of truth from my perspective.

I am a bit confused by what you meant by your statement above.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top Bottom