Should taxes be raised on the wealthiest people? (3 Viewers)

[AccessBlaster]

I have been stating mine.

It's a simple one word answer yes your in favor of higher taxes on wealthy or no your not in favor of it.

The rest is just word salad with a pinch of verbal diarrhea.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Do you need me to explain that to you?

Introduced at the bottom... Do you mean taking that investment to build a business that lets even the low-level workers at the bottom of the economy exchange their time for money? Businesses do what they do to inject money at all levels including low-level people. They also need higher level people to do technical or supervisory jobs because the low-level workers don't have the acumen to see the big picture of where the company is going and WHY it is going that way.

Your attitude seems to suggest that you believe people aren't being paid what they are worth. And that is actually quite true. People are NEVER paid what they are worth. They are paid what their JOB is worth to the employer. The exact amount of the person's salary is limited by the boss's budget for the job. That is the way business works. Do you need me to explain THAT to YOU?

Take a GOOD look at what has happened in California fast food restaurants since the minimum wage boost. That is your economic world in a microcosm. Socialism gone wild, badly enough to drive businesses into bankruptcy due to insane salaries. People were worried that those poor minimum wage people couldn't afford to live. So they boosted the minimum wage that had the result of killing the balance between profit and personnel costs. It is right there for you to see it but the question is, WILL you see it? Or will you slough it off like everything else?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Have you ever tried to sort out and write down how you are coming to those conclusions?

Don't have to write anything about it. I know what I think and HAVE written about it. Or have you not been reading?

 

[Cotswold]

Why keep increasing taxes, that will not be spent on benefitting the whole.
There are adequate and numerous ways money could be saved that would avoid tax rises. But unfortunately that is never going to happen.

Locally, if you want to take a boot full of rubbish or recycling to the town tip, you have to go online, fill in your details and book a time-slot.
None of that adds value, or improves anything. It does not even provide any factual or useful information. There is no benefit to anyone. All it does is add costs. Now shifts of guys in a none-job are pointlessly checking number plates.
Fortunately we aren't too far from the border of another county. So I take my disposals and recycling there. It is quicker than filling in the online form and driving to our tips.

 

[Thales750]

Why keep increasing taxes, that will not be spent on benefitting the whole.
There are adequate and numerous ways money could be saved that would avoid tax rises. But unfortunately that is never going to happen.

Locally, if you want to take a boot full of rubbish or recycling to the town tip, you have to go online, fill in your details and book a time-slot.
None of that adds value, or improves anything. It does not even provide any factual or useful information. There is no benefit to anyone. All it does is add costs. Now shifts of guys in a none-job are pointlessly checking number plates.
Fortunately we aren't too far from the border of another county. So I take my disposals and recycling there. It is quicker than filling in the online form and driving to our tips.

Galveston is Liberal compared to many places in Texas.
I go to the dump and they look at the address of my drivers license. Easy Breezy Lemon Peezy

 

[Thales750]

Don't have to write anything about it. I know what I think and HAVE written about it. Or have you not been reading?

What i meant was, offer up some evidence. When i do that, some of your buddies on here tell me they don't care about data. They only want beliefs and feelings.

 

[Thales750]

But you're still playing his game.

Maybe he wants to gain a different perspective.

 

[Isaac]

Despite my firmly held belief that Republicans do a better job of pushing the country in the right direction than Democrats, I personally have had some of my beliefs challenged a bit from reading Thales' responses, some bit of hardening my own, some softening.

I don't defend Trump because I think he is perfect, I defend him because he is the better alternative for voting purposes. Far from a maga cult follower actually, but Thales doesn't think so because I'm conservative. And beliefs and feelings are important - it's not just all about data and charts. Beliefs and feelings is why our country began. And why it continues to chug along.

 

[Thales750]

Introduced at the bottom... Do you mean taking that investment to build a business that lets even the low-level workers at the bottom of the economy exchange their time for money? Businesses do what they do to inject money at all levels including low-level people. They also need higher level people to do technical or supervisory jobs because the low-level workers don't have the acumen to see the big picture of where the company is going and WHY it is going that way.

Like Pat you are purposely verbose. It's a debate technique to limit rebuttals
I will try to be clear here.

The premise for this discussion is the effect, on the economy (in this case society), of changes to the tax rate for the highest income classes.

You automatically assume I have some socialist agenda. I have introduced some charts, all ignored, all made points that were contrary to MAGA popular opinions. You assumed that i agreed with raising the minimum wage. I do not by that way, but that has nothing to do with this conversation.

Premise
I say that increasing taxes on the highest income classes helps the economy, makes it more resilient, increases GDP, makes a healthier middle class, and reduces government spending deficits, eventually leading to a balanced budget as well as ultimately eliminating Federal Debt.

I'm prepared to have a technical discussion of this, free of any feeling, beliefs, or ideology.

My premise was stated in clear and concise language. Can you do the same? that goes for any of you.

I think the rules should be to try to keep a line of conversation to a minimum of topics until that has been agreed upon or decided that their can be no agreement. No page long diatribes covering 12 different topics, no more ignoring direct question. If a person elects not to answer they should still address the question.

Does that sound fair?

 

[Isaac]

Like Pat you are purposely verbose. It's a debate technique to limit rebuttals
I will try to be clear here.

The premise for this discussion is the effect, on the economy (in this case society), of changes to the tax rate for the highest income classes.

You automatically assume I have some socialist agenda. I have introduced some charts, all ignored, all made points that were contrary to MAGA popular opinions. You assumed that i agreed with raising the minimum wage. I do not by that way, but that has nothing to do with this conversation.

I say that increasing taxes on the highest income classes helps the economy, makes it more resilient, increases GDP, makes a healthier middle class, and reduces government spending deficits, eventually leading to a balanced budget as well as ultimately eliminating Federal Debt.

I'm prepared to have a technical discussion of this, free of any feeling, beliefs, or ideology.

My premise was stated in clear and concise language. Can you do the same? that goes for any of you.

I think the rules should be to try to keep a line of conversation to a minimum of topics until that has been agreed upon or decided that their can be no agreement. No page long diatribes covering 12 different topics, no more ignoring direct question. If a person elects not to answer they should still address the question.

Does that sound fair?

No.

 

[Isaac]

I'm prepared to have a technical discussion of this, free of any feeling, beliefs, or ideology

So you only want to examine half of what goes into decision making in this life. Okay.

 

[Isaac]

Despite my firmly held belief that Republicans do a better job of pushing the country in the right direction than Democrats, I personally have had some of my beliefs challenged a bit from reading Thales' responses, some bit of hardening my own, some softening.

I don't defend Trump because I think he is perfect, I defend him because he is the better alternative for voting purposes. Far from a maga cult follower actually, but Thales doesn't think so because I'm conservative. And beliefs and feelings are important - it's not just all about data and charts. Beliefs and feelings is why our country began. And why it continues to chug along.

@moke123 , is it hard to log in with 2 accounts at a time or do you just use 2 different browsers?

 

[Thales750]

So you only want to examine half of what goes into decision making in this life. Okay.

No Isaac, you're doing what you do, you're being clever, like scoring points in debate class.

I started this thread because for 30 years I have watched people preach trickle down economics, and I have watched the language that defends it change. Many people "believe" in it when there is very little substance there, and a whole lot of evidence to the contrary.

Maybe feelings and beliefs should be questioned?

 

[Isaac]

Maybe feelings and beliefs should be questioned?

Of course, but not excluded
And I definitely am not clever - moke you can like this post

 

[Thales750]

No.

No What? LOL

 

[Thales750]

Of course, but not excluded
And I definitely am not clever - moke you can like this post

I think you are clever, and mostly you have manners.

 

[Isaac]

I think the right decisions are a jumble of hard data, interpreting/challenging the meaning of the data, as well as beliefs and philosophies.
I'm not sure how you can exclude the last two.
Data might show something to be extremely effective at something, but philosophy might preclude the objective - etc. etc.
I'll admit I have a hard time feeling like discussing hard data can be totally dispositive of any major social issue.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

@Thales750 - you asked for some reasons why I think the way I do.

In a nutshell, I am tired of seeing lazy, good-for-nothing slackers vote for people who throw money their way because those slackers don't want to do any work themselves. I am tired of watching folks vote for people whose policy is to hire goons ('scuse me, federal agents) to gather up someone else's money to support those slackers because to them it is a legal way of stealing that for which I worked 40+ years to earn. I am tired of watching crazy-arsed government research grants on the vortices caused by different wing-flapping pattern of various moths or the relative methane content of tropical vs. temperate-zone termite flatulence. I am tired of watching expensive study after expensive study that eventually comes to a conclusion that we don't spend enough money on national infrastructure. (Well, DUH! Why did we need more than ONE study?) But so many other insane programs come out of the woodwork that I find myself ready to believe that NOBODY wants to earn an honest dollar any more.

I am sick and tired of watching people make insane decisions regarding guns, environmental regulations, land use regulations, immigration policies, and a myriad of other nonsensical decisions. I am sick and tired of bureaucracies making up rules as they go. (Though that last one may be stopped for at least a while with the revocation of the Chevron Deference Doctrine.)

I worked my butt off to get what I've got. I took care of my parents until they passed. I kept my nose clean (legally). We keep up the house so that it isn't an eyesore. I donate money freely to food-bank charities. (My wife and I agreed on that as a good choice and we researched it before picking the one that we did.)

That is a summary of my core objection to some of the issues you have brought forward. You wanted underlying motivation. You wanted reasons. You have them. Since they are based on core feelings, don't you DARE criticize me for answer your question directly. You wanted to know what I felt. I have answered that question.

 

[Thales750]

@Thales750 - you asked for some reasons why I think the way I do.

In a nutshell, I am tired of seeing lazy, good-for-nothing slackers vote for people who throw money their way because those slackers don't want to do any work themselves. I am tired of watching folks vote for people whose policy is to hire goons ('scuse me, federal agents) to gather up someone else's money to support those slackers because to them it is a legal way of stealing that for which I worked 40+ years to earn. I am tired of watching crazy-arsed government research grants on the vortices caused by different wing-flapping pattern of various moths or the relative methane content of tropical vs. temperate-zone termite flatulence. I am tired of watching expensive study after expensive study that eventually comes to a conclusion that we don't spend enough money on national infrastructure. (Well, DUH! Why did we need more than ONE study?) But so many other insane programs come out of the woodwork that I find myself ready to believe that NOBODY wants to earn an honest dollar any more.

I am sick and tired of watching people make insane decisions regarding guns, environmental regulations, land use regulations, immigration policies, and a myriad of other nonsensical decisions. I am sick and tired of bureaucracies making up rules as they go. (Though that last one may be stopped for at least a while with the revocation of the Chevron Deference Doctrine.)

I worked my butt off to get what I've got. I took care of my parents until they passed. I kept my nose clean (legally). We keep up the house so that it isn't an eyesore. I donate money freely to food-bank charities. (My wife and I agreed on that as a good choice and we researched it before picking the one that we did.)

That is a summary of my core objection to some of the issues you have brought forward. You wanted underlying motivation. You wanted reasons. You have them. Since they are based on core feelings, don't you DARE criticize me for answer your question directly. You wanted to know what I felt. I have answered that question.

I 100% respect and appreciate that answer. Thank you
I got a news flash for you Doc, you ain't one of the wealthiest. You are exactly the guy that has the highest burden.

 

[Thales750]

you asked for some reasons why I think the way I do.
You wanted to know what I felt. I have answered that question.

And a good answer it was.
I just got through reading this entire thread. I was guilty of being as snarky as some of the other folks, for my part I apologize.

I'm using this tablet. I'm going to get the laptop and explain the bases for my position. Stand by please.