Things that cause Hatred, like a false belief of Hatred

[Isaac]

Trust me, it is also tempting for our side to conclude that the people who are trying to sneak stuff into 3rd-grade curriculums about how to perform sexual acts must 'hate' them. But even there, as much as I may hate the damage that does to a child, I recognize that these are usually well intentioned people with extremely erroneous ideas about life. They probably do not actually "hate" the children.

If have gotten so dishonest in our society that we refuse to acknowledge the difference between disagreement and hatred, there is little hope for us. It's such a lazy way of swiping away an entire challenge to our beliefs.

 

[Isaac]

If I forget the preferred pronouns of a Canadian weightlifter who recently smashed the women's benchpress record by 100lbs, I am a mysogynistic bigot, typical of an old white male.

Exactly! A thousand things are currently being called Hate. For a while it was just silly, and made me wonder if everyone had lost their dictionaries.

After a while I recognized it as intellectual dishonesty.

after Nashville, now I think it has actual fatal consequences

 

[Isaac]

@Pat Hartman
And admittedly, that's hard. It's hard for everyone to separate actions and ideas from the intrinsic worth of human beings.

But we must try.

I'm willing to admit that some Christians have confused hating sin with hating people. I'm willing to admit it damaged people and has done harm.

Is the LGBT community willing to admit that it will not kill them if not everyone agrees with them, or are they given a special privilege of being immune from the honest assessment, even when we can see the fatal consequences of that erroneous conclusion?

Stop teaching people to hate, and stop telling people that others hate them. Both things lead to the same place.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

@Pat Hartman - you are so right. If only we had learned this lesson long ago. Perhaps this song says what needs to be said. The only REAL question is whether anyone will ever listen and learn.

From the old Rodgers and Hammerstein play/movie, South Pacific, regarding a man wrestling with his feelings for a non-Caucasian woman:

You've got to be taught to hate and fear,
You've got to be taught from year to year,
It's got to be drummed in your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!

Remember, the movie was from 1958, 65 years ago! This song was considered controversial at the time.

Looks like these days the hatred has just moved on to new targets.

 

[Isaac]

"What? Grooming? Where would you get such a false idea?"

Is it off-base to categorize the building of a trusted, close, advice-laden relationship between a boy and a man, based primarily on the topic of pure sexuality that they share between them? ... as Grooming?

I think a few years ago, before we saw stuff like this become accepted and legal, the answer would have been a clear, rational, resounding "Of course it is!"

If a 40 yr old man has a relationship with a 15 yr old girl as a mentor, and primarily discusses sex, sexuality, and sexual things, it is very easy for everyone to categorize what is going on.

But I think we have been programmed (indoctrinated) into making a blind exception for this stuff.
How in the WORLD is this defensible to any decent adult mind of any religious or non-religious persuasion???

 

[The_Doc_Man]

OK, let's look at the stuff you posted just now, @Isaac - and let's be honest about it.

You have posted an ad that says that they will pair up LGBTQ+ young people with LGBTQ+ adults who can mentor them. You just KNOW that most parents will NOT have that father/son or mother/daughter chat if the kid has come out of the closet already. The parents will be on shaky ground at best and on quicksand at worst. So... who will tell the kids what they need to know?

Have you ever heard of the Boys and Girls Club of America that pairs up young people with mentors? Is there something wrong with that?

Have you ever heard of the Big Brothers and Big Sisters Clubs? They try to find steady influences on children from broken homes. Do you think THAT is "grooming"?

How about Boy Scouts of America and Girl Scouts that try to get like-minded kids together for fun away from Mom and Dad - although there WAS that scandal relating to libidinous Eagle scouts... To play the media, click on the "Play on YouTube" link.

If you've been paying attention - and I really think you have been - you know I've been trying to tell you that there will be no cross-grooming. Most gays do NOT try to turn kids "to the dark side." I say "most" because my sample is not all-inclusive. But it has been true for every gay person I know or have met. Gays KNOW that their gender preference was not a choice for them any more than it was a choice for you to be straight. At most, it is not a choice but a discovery... or a realization.

So let me ask you which is better? Kids who know they are different and know how to handle that difference... or kids who don't even know WHY they are different, but nobody has ever explained it to them, so they get in a lot of trouble because they DON'T understand their urges.

 

[Isaac]

Have you ever heard of the Boys and Girls Club of America that pairs up young people with mentors? Is there something wrong with that?

I'm sure you already know that that organization to which you refer does not pair adults/teens up using a commonality of something SEXUAL!

c'mon Doc, really that for an analogy?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I'm sure you already know that that organization to which you refer does not pair adults/teens up using a commonality of something SEXUAL!

c'mon Doc, really that for an analogy?

Yet reading that ad, YOU still assumed that they were going to hook up potential sex partners. It seems that you make assumptions here that are not warranted by the ad you presented.

Let me try this one for you... supposing that the Boy's Club organization hooked up a teen (guy) with an older female? Would you assume they were doing something sexual?

 

[conception_native_0123]

Adam, can you clarify that statement?

i'm going off my own observations richard. I've seen it for many years now. and I guess, a little bit of the news too, that reports hate events. as I mentioned, it seems like more hatred comes from outside rather than from inside.

 

[conception_native_0123]

Too many people in or allied with the LGBT community are feverishly teaching themselves and their members/children that ANYONE and EVERYONE who doesn't fully and totally agree with and affirm their beliefs and actions, 100%, literally 'hates' them and wants them dead'.

you must be operating with more info than I have man. I don't know that many LGBTQ people, and I don't talk to enough of them to really believe that this is true. I know one for sure, she lives in my building. but I would have no doubt that your idea is the right one. Maybe if it is right, that's because too much hatred has already come from outside the group and influenced it as such? ya think? just guessing.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

i'm going off my own observations richard. I've seen it for many years now. and I guess, a little bit of the news too, that reports hate events. as I mentioned, it seems like more hatred comes from outside rather than from inside.

Thank you for the clarification, Adam. Yes, the news seems to be permeated with headlines of one zealot after another trying to "stick it to the gays" (... pun not necessarily intended - but now that I see it, I'm leaving it in...) with restrictions and rules that have the effect of denying them the chance to live a life closer in style to the way they feel they SHOULD be living.

You and I discussed this some time ago - maybe before you reverted to your current nom de screen. The behavior you get is a reflection of the behavior you give... or "what goes around comes around." It is little wonder that gays tend to push back against those who persecute them. Hatred spawns hatred. It is human nature to push for the treatment you really want. When staunch Christians try to block parades and demonstrations, does anyone HONESTLY think the gays will back down? They are just returning the hate they were given. Is it that hard to see? Sheesh!

 

[conception_native_0123]

When staunch Christians try to block parades and demonstrations, does anyone HONESTLY think the gays will back down? They are just returning the hate they were given. Is it that hard to see? Sheesh!

you got no argument here richard. I guess I would not call myself a "staunch christian" then. I simply stay out of the argument. that's the best way I know how to contribute to the war. Is that so bad?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I look at it as simply not trying to be your brother's keeper when your brother says he/she/whatever doesn't want a keeper.

The argument only exists for those who can't keep their nose out someone else's business.

 

[conception_native_0123]

no argument.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Why not have an age of consent for transition? You could have a contract with a physician. Parents,teachers and politicians are taken out of the equation. I have little concern about adult behavior concerning this matter but somebody needs to make sure these possibly confused minors aren't making a irreversible life choices.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I have no issue whatsoever with an adult making a decision about his/her body. I would be OK with naming either voting age, legal drinking age, age of sexual consent, age of military service, or age of contract legality as the minimum. HOWEVER, since some states are a bit more liberal with age of sexual consent, that would be my least favorite of the options.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I remember visiting my sister in San Francisco, she lived right on Powell Street up from Fisherman's Warf. She took us for a ride around the city ending at the Castro District. We got a bite to eat at this little café right on the street. Out of the café walks this guy that looked like he was straight out of Central casting for The Village People. He had the cap and the mustache, leather from head to toe. I literally busted out laughing, tears were running down my cheeks. I asked him if we could take a picture with him, he couldn't be nicer despite the obvious tourist sitting there laughing. There is an entertainment aspect to a lot of these folks but for others, it crosses some boundaries that embarrass their own movement. Most gays I know, don't necessarily want to stand out in any way, they just want to live and work like everyone else.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

From what I have heard from my gay step-daughter and her (gay) friends, most of the gay parades have really extreme costumes that are strangely not so extremely revealing when you look at them again. New Orleans still has laws regarding nudity and public indecency. I can't speak towards other rallys and other parades. Most of the New Orleans gay community, when they demonstrate or hold a parade here, bring lots of signs and banners. Yep, they get drunk and disorderly. So do the participants in the St. Patrick's Day parade (LOTS of green beer) and the Italian-American parade near the time of the St. Joseph's altars. So did the Saints fans the year the Saints won the Super Bowl.

I am not denying that some folks go overboard. It is just that most of the time the New Orleans police do not have to make arrests for public lewdness at those parades. Oddly enough, the more common arrests have been when a parade participant hands out improperly wrapped food items. For the St. Patty's parade, it was cabbages.

 

[conception_native_0123]

My baby brother is gay and he and his partner would never march in a parade like what we see on TV.

that's probably because they are freaking DECENT human beings, even if they are gay! good for them! I applaud.

 

[Lightwave]

I personally agree with Isaac's opening post. Hatred can bootstrap itself to a position where it becomes self fulfilling and yes that worries me. I personally can go for a windsurf , go to the gym or pick up litter... These things give me peace. I hope others have refuges that protect them and their neighbours.

One thing that seems clear - humans are not always rational.