Thought processes - still planning things

[RainLover]

Ani

My Horse has a bone in his leg.

Should I be concerned.?

 

[Ani]

Who said I was finnished.

A lot more to do yet.

e.g. City. Is this not repeating Data. It requires a separate table as a lookup.

How many more things like City can you find. More importantly how many things like Horse History can you find.

As you have included Financials this Database could blow out. Do you use a Financial package like MYOB. If you do we could vary the Database quite a lot.

Oh dear! I think I will hang on to the words "very good for a first attempt", whilst attempting to change the way I think about data! In the meantime its not raining this morning so Im going to check my mares bones are still all intact! LOL
I only have about 6 paying customers right now, my daughter is training in accountancy, perhaps it would be better to remove the financial tables and get her to do my book keeping! I will have a think about all of this. Thank you.
Ani

 

[Ani]

Oh wow! Rain! I have an hour to sit and do a little bit, I cant believe how changing the tables as you suggested has made me think about other things...my brain is actually starting to have to work!
Im trying to break things up more and now Im looking at things thinking "errm thats going to have multiple entries". I think Im beginning to see why and how you have to think of the data in 'atomic' pieces. We take so much of our brains functions for granted, a machine cannot make the connections the way we do, this is very insightful!
I still dont have a clue what to do afterwards but perhaps it will start to click into place.
Hope you are having a good weekend!
Ani
PS Im writing notes in the description field otherwise I will completely forget things....they can be deleted once the things Im thinking of are understood, it doesnt make a difference to the db doing that, presumably?

 

[Ani]

Ani

My Horse has a bone in his leg.

Should I be concerned.?

OK, I must admit this had me puzzled but at the same time I realised it was meant to be puzzling.
So back to thought processes...
My first reaction was a dismissive "No".
Then I thought about some of the comments that people make when trying to explain a problem with their horse or just things in general. A statement like "his coat stares", taken out of context, doesn't make sense.
So communication is one thing - has the statement been taken out of context? Is there anything that belongs with the statement?
The statement itself may have an ambiguous meaning - does it mean a naturally occurring bone, a broken bone, is the bone inappropriate or perhaps, does the bone belong to something else?
So I may still be missing some things but if I apply this thinking to my db tables, will I be on, or at least near to being on, the right wavelength?
Ani

 

[Ani]

This thread might help.

Thanks Sean...just followed through and it works a treat!
Ani

 

[RainLover]

PS I'm writing notes in the description field otherwise I will completely forget things....they can be deleted once the things I'm thinking of are understood, it doesn't make a difference to the db doing that, presumably?

Whatever you write will show up as a tip when you hover over that Field in your Form.

So your note should be for human consumption.

With regard to Financials, I would suggest that you create the ability to produce an Invoice and then stop at that. Allow your accounting package to handle everything else, accounting wise. More on this when you want to ask.

As you change your design post it here with a short note on what you changed. That way we I can alert you if you are going down the wrong track.

With projects like this which is a reasonable sized project, I like to print the Relationships and pin that to the wall. I sometimes have to go to a print shop to get them to print in A2. I save the relationships to a PDF File and put it on a stick.

This piece of paper becomes your Map. You will refer to it often when designing other parts of your project.

With the bone. I did not expect to receive such a thoughtful response.

I could easily write a short paper on this and still have more to say. There are two lines of thought. One is that of course the horse has a bone. The other is wider along the road you traveled.

 

[Ani]

Whatever you write will show up as a tip when you hover over that Field in your Form.

So your note should be for human consumption.

That would be me then!

With regard to Financials, I would suggest that you create the ability to produce an Invoice and then stop at that. Allow your accounting package to handle everything else, accounting wise. More on this when you want to ask.

That sounds good...I tend to avoid the whole money side of things but if I want my hobby to actually work I will have to deal with it all at some point! My 'accounting package' will be my daughter LOL! I do need to know whether Ive been paid for the service because the rule is that I do not send results to the customer until payment has cleared. I'm afraid I am not good at sticking to my own rule!

As you change your design post it here with a short note on what you changed. That way we I can alert you if you are going down the wrong track.

OK, I also think it will be beneficial to myself, I will have an understanding of the learning curve...mistakes are the things you learn most by.

With projects like this which is a reasonable sized project, I like to print the Relationships and pin that to the wall. I sometimes have to go to a print shop to get them to print in A2. I save the relationships to a PDF File and put it on a stick.

This piece of paper becomes your Map. You will refer to it often when designing other parts of your project.

That sounds like an excellent idea!

With the bone. I did not expect to receive such a thoughtful response.

I appreciate the puzzle, it is a long time since my intellect has been challenged and I miss being in a learning environment. As a scientist I was trained not to accept things at face value but my thinking has become stagnant.

I could easily write a short paper on this and still have more to say. There are two lines of thought. One is that of course the horse has a bone. The other is wider along the road you traveled.

Thank you, I will look forward to receiving more!
Ani

 

[RainLover]

After all that I am left with the bone.

When I was young, very young and did not want to walk, I would try to get Mum or Dad to carry me because I had a bone in my leg. I was simply tired of walking and we were too poor to own a horse. Both electricity and the internal combustion was yet to be invented.
But all this has nothing to do with the price of eggs in Alaska during the wet season.

Essentially I made the comment purely for fun, thinking that no one would react because they would not like to be seen as the only one who does not understand.

I enjoyed your mind. There are not a lot of good ones who are also good at code punching, which makes them not good at code punching.

Have you ever studied the first discipline in ancient Greek.

 

[Ani]

Got it.

For a First attempt very good.

Problems in Naming. Don't use special characters like &. and - or / (), Don't have age, have DOB and calculate the age. Some Field names appear far too long. Save a bunch of typos now and shorten them.

Always use Date Data Type for Dates. Do not use text.

Normalise more. e.g. tblHorse details is about the animal itself. Things that don't change. A new Table tblHorseHistory would store LastWormDate, TypeWormer, CurrentIssues.

The results appear for a person not a Horse. Wrong linking.

Horse Name is used in three tables, It only needs to be in one. tblHorseDetails.

Please review the above and rethink overall. Post back again with second draft.

Ok, here goes...I am braced for the next set of challenges!

Database Notes 10-6-12
Changes since 3-6-12
As suggested:
Special characters removed from field names (eg &, /, (), -)
Data Types checked on Table fields
Lookups removed from Tables – some notes in the description fields as to where I may need Lookups on forms or queries
Linking changed for Results to show for Horse not Customer
Horse Name removed from all but tblHrseDtls
Field Names abbreviated
Data now in 11 Tables instead of 7
New Tables are:
tblSample
tblHorseHistory
tblOrders
tblCustomerService
Relationship links are all set one to many – unsure if these are all correct
Unsure about tblInvoice tblProduct and tblInvoiceDetailsjctn
I have product name in all three of these tables, whilst I understand the necessity for the field name to be included in the junction table, do I need it in the tblProducts and tblInvoice?
I need to know the Product Name when the customer is invoiced and when the Invoice is being created I need to know for which customer. I find these confusing. I am still not clear as to how the information will come back together but will remove the duplicated field names if advised to. If I understand correctly I can remove ProductName from tblInvoice because it is in the jctn table and the tblProduct?
So that's how far I have done and I have lots more questions but wouldn't be able to cope with the answers right now!
The sun is shining and it is warm enough for me to bath my mare, I think I am going to have a few hours outside. As you are 10hrs ahead there, I bid you G'night.
Ani

 

[Ani]

After all that I am left with the bone.

When I was young, very young and did not want to walk, I would try to get Mum or Dad to carry me because I had a bone in my leg. I was simply tired of walking and we were too poor to own a horse. Both electricity and the internal combustion was yet to be invented.
But all this has nothing to do with the price of eggs in Alaska during the wet season.

Essentially I made the comment purely for fun, thinking that no one would react because they would not like to be seen as the only one who does not understand.

I enjoyed your mind. There are not a lot of good ones who are also good at code punching, which makes them not good at code punching.

Have you ever studied the first discipline in ancient Greek.

Oh....! I have never studied any type of philosophy as I find the whole area somewhat daunting. I am however interested, as long as I dont actually have to apply it to real people. I find Humans most difficult to understand!
Ani
PS I dont mind admitting I dont understand something, how else do we learn?

 

[RainLover]

You are quick.

TblCustomerService has a Combo left.

Good night for now, just had to have a quick look. Tomorrow is a Public Holiday for Queens Birthday. Lucky us.

 

[Ani]

OK, will sort! Thank you. We had our Queens holiday last Monday and Tuesday for the Jubilee. Im not much of a Royalist but the holidays are appreciated!
G'Night
Ani

 

[RainLover]

I will send back your DB very soon without comment.

 

[Ani]

I will send back your DB very soon without comment.

Oh...I will miss the comments!

 

[RainLover]

Here it is.

Look at the Relationships. Much better now.

I mislead you over the Naming. You did go a bit too far.

 

[Ani]

Here it is.

Look at the Relationships. Much better now.

I mislead you over the Naming. You did go a bit too far.

Oh LOL....
Thank you...I wasnt expecting it now. Please go and get some sleep or you wont enjoy your Queens holiday day!
Ani

 

[RainLover]

My first discussion.

You wake in the morning and swing your legs around off the bed.

How do you know that when you try to stand that the floor will support you.

I still don't know the answer.

Good night.

 

[Ani]

Ok, I dont have an awful lot of time right now, 6yr old to get sorted with her pony and hopefully get to bed at a reasonable time!
First thoughts
How do we 'know' anything?
Define 'know'.
According to the Cambridge dictionary, 'Know' means "to have information in your mind".
People forget that they are also animals. How does a Mountain goat 'know' that the next precipice it jumps onto will hold its weight? It doesn't think "that looks solid, I wont die if I jump up there". A mountain goat or any other animal is not capable of logical thought, perhaps with the exception of a few primates and dolphins; which I believe are capable of learning some logic but seems to require Human intervention. After all, why would they need to learn to think in such a way?
We can 'know' something from learning or learned experiences but we are also intuitive animals with basic instincts. Some of those instincts are dulled but they are still present.
When we place our feet on the floor in a morning isn't it those basic, intuitive instincts, that we are (unconsciously) relying on? There are so many other things we do for the same reasons but Humans seem to have a need to explain, quantify and justify everything. Perhaps to separate ourselves from the other animals? Vanity, ego and the need to feel superior?
Ani

 

[Ani]

Here it is.

Look at the Relationships. Much better now.

I mislead you over the Naming. You did go a bit too far.

Hi Rain
I hope you have enjoyed your holiday?
Thanks for displaying the Relationship window that way. I can see how it is all connected now.
Ive read through the stuff on normalisation again and looked at the tables. There were a couple of minor errors still, a - in one of the names, cant remember the other thing now. I think I am ready to start queries. So going to look at tutorials first and do some reading.
Ani

 

[RainLover]

Go for it. You can always come back if and when you discover a problem.

I would tend to advise that you create a Form and its Query. Get that right then move onto the next Form and Query etc. While you are at it create a Report or two.

Unrelated question. What is the opposite to a Black Ball. (Usually associated with a vote)