Question Using Dropbox to host a front end / back end database

[humph]

Has anyone any experience using Dropbox to host a split database. Ulimately I would like to create a run version for users with the back end held in a drop box directory.

As an unsplit database everything is working fine on dropbox records are saved in a timely manner and great.

Once I split to FE /BE only some records are saved on the BE and some are dropped. Was getting conflicted copies of Back end but manged to stop this happening but the records were noit on either copy.

Gave each user their own FE (on a drop box directory) linking to a BE in a sub directory on the same dropbox.

The key issue is that not all users have access and I don't want them to get into code so want to aim towards a run version.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Humph :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[humph]

Hi Pat - thanks for your comprehensive response.
You opened my eyes with point 1 - I thought in my naivity that if I used access to split the database that the code forms etc was protected and that only the datatables could be accessed.

Point 2 I was aware of and what I was trying to do albeit from the dropbox was for each user to have a copy FE on dropbox with BE also on dropbox.

The focus on dropbox or some other cloud is because 2 users will be mobile using laptops and I thought this would be a solution.

My next approach will be to load the database on the individual pcs with the BE on dropbox and see how that goes as regards saving the data. The key issue seems to be triggering a save record on the BE.

Again in my naivity I thought the run time had to be loaded as part of the FE - you seem to suggest that users can load this as a standalone - am I understanding you correctly? I have fairly comprehensive error trapping but having said that probably not got them all.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

 

[RainLover]

The only suggestion I have is for each user to have a Front End in their c:\Drive in a separate folder.

Link the Front End to a Back End on a Dedicated Machine's Dropbox Folder. This would require that Folder to be shared.

Turn off the Dropbox Notifications as you could receive so many that it would become very annoying. You would get a Notification on every Edit or Addition.

In essence this is the same as a normal FE/BE setup except you are using the One Machine's Dropbox for the Back End.

 

[humph]

Thanks for this - as above going to try the individual loading on the various C drives with the BE on the dropbox

The database can find the back ends OK and is linked ok just for some reason does not save all the records.

You thoughtts are as per mine the location should not technically make any difference provided they can link ok.

 

[spikepl]

WHat is happening here? There is only ONE WAY in which you can safely share a BE on Dropbox, and that is if each user has own timeslot for access, so that only one user accesses the db at one time.

Dropbox updates the centrally stored file with a copy of the most recent version made by whichever user that made changes last. Users do NOT access the same file simultaneously - they access copies. The last updated copy "wins".

 

[humph]

That would certainly explain why records are lost. So my thought that there should be no difference between a FE/ back end link on the server and a drop box is incorrect.

Back to drawing board to think of some storage approach that will allow me to get remote access.

Many thanks

 

[boblarson]

Back to drawing board to think of some storage approach that will allow me to get remote access.

Can you describe your current network setup and how users would be needing to connect and all? There may be options but not knowing anything about how your current system is and how users may need to use it kind of limits what we can suggest.

 

[humph]

Yes thanks in advance for help - really quite a simple application

System will have 6 users 2 office based other mobile with internet connection.

Front end
Was planning to provide application on a runtime version - one copy for each user. Had originally thought of hosting these on Dropbox but could be on individual pc's

Really want to protect code hence the use of runtime version however given security comment from Pat above this may not be as secure as I thought.

Back end
As you will have seen above was originally planning to have BE on drop box so that the off site users could access using internet connection. However had major issue with records disappearing and given comments above re how dropbox works now understand why they were disappearing.

Everything is working perfectly until we use Dropbox for BE.

Another option might be to use something like a Seagate product Free agent Go flex Home network storage - haven't researched this too much yet.
Open to any suggestion - thanks again for any help

 

[boblarson]

If you are using Access 2010, you could use SharePoint with Access Services installed. There are some providers who provide that as a backend if you don't have SharePoint 2010 with Access services installed in your workplace. It does cost but if you have this you can create webforms which can work on mobile devices using a browser.

Here's one hosting site:
http://www.accesshosting.com/index.asp

 

[RainLover]

As I said before. One Machine in the office has to be the dedicated keeper of the back end and it can be in the Dropbox folder. The Folder must be set to Shared.

Other users may have dropbox with a copy of the back end but do not use that copy. Use the copy on the dedicated machine.

For remote users they must also be able to link to the dedicated machine. Not the dropbox folder on their machine. Remote users will only work if everyone else is logged out. The can then use their own Dropbox Folder provided they are connected to the internet.

I have TESTED this and it works the way I described.

 

[RainLover]

Pat
Just for my own information I would like to ask a little about Terminal Services. I have used it many years ago but it fail because of connection speed. With todays internet speed it may be worth revisiting.

Question. If we were to set up TS for remote users who accessed the same machine in the Office would we then need to create a unique folder for each user's front end. Otherwise would not the remote users be sharing the same front end.

 

[gemma-the-husky]

rain - if you do not give each user a login to a separate folder - they will end up all using the same physical netwrked copy of the dbs - which you are general trying to avoid.

so each user needs a profile that directs the login to their own dedicated path.

 

[RainLover]

rain - if you do not give each user a login to a separate folder - they will end up all using the same physical netwrked copy of the dbs - which you are general trying to avoid.

so each user needs a profile that directs the login to their own dedicated path.

Dave you are correct and that make things more complicated than one would first think.

What I have done is placed a shortcut on the desktop.
This points to an update file in Dropbox.
The update makes sure the user is using the latest version of the FE. If not it updates it.
The front end is located in a Folder that is not part of dropbox. So each user has a separate copy of the FE.
All Front Ends have their tables linked to the same back end. I spoke about a dedicated machine earlier. This BE is therefore shared between all users. Its location is within Dropbox which naturally updates each user even though they are not using the back end.
This update file (An Access DB) also checks that the path to the dedicated machine. If not the path is changed to the users own back end but the FE is made Read only. The background color of the Main form changes to alert the user that they are read only.
Finally the update file opens the Front end on the users machine.

Remote users are Read only. To give them access you would have to make sure all other users are loged out. For remote users would really only allow for travellers who wish to enter data in their Motel Room after hours. Remote users could at all times open in Read only if they wanted to refer to some data. All remote users are Read Only in my design.

Dave I have done this successfully for very low usage. One user most of the time with 2 or 3 others on occassion.

What you and I understand that many others do not is that there is no direct connection to the File that is kept on the dropbox server. They are wanting to use Dropbox as though it was a server that they had direct access to. Which it is not.

For the information of others reading this, Dropbox and other systems like it are simply smart off line storage that automatically updates itself and each user with the latest version.

A Web based application is really the only correct solution.

Hope I have explained this correctly. If not I am prepared to clarify.

 

[gemma-the-husky]

rain

do you mean that the backend is in a public dropbox folder shared by all users. that would work i expect - although there would be a lot of broadband traffic as the public folder continually updates the backend to the "cloud".

 

[RainLover]

rain

do you mean that the backend is in a public dropbox folder shared by all users. that would work i expect - although there would be a lot of broadband traffic as the public folder continually updates the backend to the "cloud".

Yes there would be a lot of traffic. But I am only using a small office so it is not a problem.

EDIT

The next statement is incorrect.
---------------------------------------
I am not sure but I don't think Dropbox replaces the whole file. Just the part that has changed. I could be wrong with this, not really 100% sure.

EDIT 21 March 2013

Any change to any file causes the new file to over ride the existing file in all Drop Box locations. Namely all those sharing the same Drop Box. It also over rides the Cloud version of Drop Box.

When two people change the Drop Box file at the same time, that is both update the file on their own Drop Box Folder that resides on their own computer, then a conflict occurs and both copies are saved. It is then up to you to decide which file you want to keep.

 

[ma t]

I realize this is an older thread, but its the only one I can find with a similar conversation to my question... i am trying to use dropbox as a way to share a documents folder which will store documents that are linked to a filepath stored in my access table. I have done this before using a shared drive on a network, but I am not sure how to set the file path to the dropbox folder, any help please?

 

[RainLover]

If there is a URL for the dropbox folder, you can concatenate that with the file name and use the FollowHyperLink method to open the file.

Pat

I do not believe there is a way to link to the Dropbox folder that resides in the cloud.

I and many others would like to do this so if you can create a link please post your solution.

The same problem exists with Sky Drive. I have attempted to create a link with both products.

When I use "Link" I mean that I would like to link the Front End on my computer with the Back End that resides in the cloud. The object is for all users no matter where they are to be able to share the back end as if they were working within a LAN.

 

[spikepl]

#19 Your dropbox folder is a normal folder on your computer, so you read/write/delete files in it just like to any other folder.

#21 Why on earth would anyone want to link to dropbox in the sky? And then have to manage the file copying/syncing oneself? That is what the dropbox application does for you, at your convenience.

 

[RainLover]

#19 Your dropbox folder is a normal folder on your computer, so you read/write/delete files in it just like to any other folder.

#21 Why on earth would anyone want to link to dropbox in the sky? And then have to manage the file copying/syncing oneself? That is what the dropbox application does for you, at your convenience.

Spike

The Objective is to have the Back End in the cloud. This way people in the office can connect to the same Back End as people on he road. People like Salesmen, Techs or the Boss who stay at different motels each night.

At the moment this is not possible unless you use something like VPN, Windows Terminal Server.

In spit of what people think, this is currently not possible.

Or should I say that I don't know how to do exactly that. I have set up something similar but nothing seamless.

 

[gemma-the-husky]

on reflection, I now do not see how dropbox could be used as a backend

However, there maybe better alternatives. Amazon host SQL databases in the cloud on something called Amazon Web Services AWS. This is charged for: Active SQL backend databases are charged for based on size, and uptime. Other than a complicated connection string they work as if they were local, and therefore are sutiable for this sort of exercise.

They give you a free account for a month, to test it out.

I have a very poor broadband at home, and abandoned it, as I was not getting acceptable speed, but it is worth a try. It worked for me, but just slowly. A fast fibre connection might be OK. If this doesn't give you an acceptable speed, I can't see that dropbox (even if it was technically able to do it) would be any different.

I am sure other providers such as Rackspace might offer similar faciliites to Amazon.

Hope this helps


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final thought. I think something like this ought to be an easier solution than trying to actually recode a database for web use. Far easier