What made/makes America a super power (1 Viewer)

[jpl458]

This video is apolitical, but extremely interresting and educational,

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The discussion about the Mississippi is slightly inaccurate. Ocean-going ships cannot go much farther than Baton Rouge. Flat-bottomed boats can get to the falls at Minneapolis / St. Paul but massive ships have trouble. Particularly now, this is true because of the recent droughts. The river levels draining into the Mississippi River are quite low.

The video DOES discuss reasons why people should stay in New Orleans despite hurricanes. We ARE the hub of a lot of shipping.

 

[jpl458]

I figured you'd chime in on this. I understand about the river levels, but the water is still cheaper to ship than land. I don't think Ocean craft were ever able to go up the Mississippi. is that correct?

 

[Pat Hartman]

While the video points out the geographical advantages that supported the growth of the United States into a super power, it doesn't discuss the people or ultimate events that were the tipping point. Geographic advantage isn't the only key. If it were, the native Americans would have been sailing East and settling in Europe instead of fighting among themselves here.

Just having a natural advantage makes no difference if you don't use that advantage. It is the people that made America great. They came to America because they had a dream.
They took God's gifts and used them to make this the country it is today. Both WWI and WWII propelled our rise. We were out of the action and so the homeland was relatively safe so we were able to concentrate on supporting our allies instead of fighting for our lives as they were forced to do. But we never took advantage of our position. At the end of WWII, we were pretty much the last industrialized nation standing. We could have taken over the world had we been so inclined. Instead, we buried our dead and spent more money helping to rebuild our foreign friends and even the evil empires that caused the damage to begin with. Germany, Japan, Italy, Turkey and Russia all benefited from our largesse at the end of WWII. It is the content of your character not any immutable attribute that makes you great. And the content of our collective character at the end of WWII was exemplary. We took care of each other. We understood self responsibility, hard work, and the American dream. We also believed in God. I can't say the same today. The military/industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about took over and sent us into a costly downward spiral of "nation building" where we have been trying to impose our version of democracy on the rest of the world ever sense. Somehow our leaders today (except for Trump) don't understand that you cannot "give" people democracy. They need to want it and earn it for themselves. This is the "Make America Great Again" movement.

Although the Social Justice Warriors would have you think that your starting point in life is all that matters, it isn't. People born to families higher on the socioeconomic ladder do have a leg up, mostly because they tend to get a better basic education which makes them more prepared to rise in the world. Some, like Trump, get a goose from family money. Others, like the Vanderbilt's squandered their legacy and have to trade on the famous family name. But people with natural talents like athletes and musicians and actors rise well above where the vast majority of the rest of us ever could. Even the poorest among us who were born and raised in a ghetto are somehow able to rise above their station to become multi millionaires due to hard work and good choices. That is the American dream and what makes America great. You may start out ahead of the pack but you only end up ahead of the pack through your own efforts. The less advantageous among us can easily go to the front through their own efforts. That is what used to make us different and why so many gave up their homelands and families to come here - legally. Now you are told you will end up ahead of the pack by doing nothing for yourself. All you need is to take something from someone who has more so you start out "equal".

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I figured you'd chime in on this. I understand about the river levels, but the water is still cheaper to ship than land. I don't think Ocean craft were ever able to go up the Mississippi. is that correct?

To the best of my knowledge, no oceanic (sailing) ship ever got past Baton Rouge, but there were so many explorers that I could imagine that some folks tried. The explorers Marquette and Joliet used canoes to go up the river as far as parts of Arkansas, but no sailing ship could ever do it (too many twists and turns, plus sand bars and the difficulty of tacking with the wind). About the biggest military vessel to go up-river were the U.S. Navy's smaller boats - the Patrol Torpedo or PT boats.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Navigable simply means no natural obstacles. Doesn't mean you can sail a cargo ship up river. It wasn't until the late 18th century that the steamboat came into use. Prior to that you needed to row or pole your way up river after a certain point because, except for very small boats, sailing was too hard.

 

[jpl458]

While the video points out the geographical advantages that supported the growth of the United States into a super power, it doesn't discuss the people or ultimate events that were the tipping point. Geographic advantage isn't the only key. If it were, the native Americans would have been sailing East and settling in Europe instead of fighting among themselves here.

Just having a natural advantage makes no difference if you don't use that advantage. It is the people that made America great. They came to America because they had a dream.
They took God's gifts and used them to make this the country it is today. Both WWI and WWII propelled our rise. We were out of the action and so the homeland was relatively safe so we were able to concentrate on supporting our allies instead of fighting for our lives as they were forced to do. But we never took advantage of our position. At the end of WWII, we were pretty much the last industrialized nation standing. We could have taken over the world had we been so inclined. Instead, we buried our dead and spent more money helping to rebuild our foreign friends and even the evil empires that caused the damage to begin with. Germany, Japan, Italy, Turkey and Russia all benefited from our largesse at the end of WWII. It is the content of your character not any immutable attribute that makes you great. And the content of our collective character at the end of WWII was exemplary. We took care of each other. We understood self responsibility, hard work, and the American dream. We also believed in God. I can't say the same today. The military/industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about took over and sent us into a costly downward spiral of "nation building" where we have been trying to impose our version of democracy on the rest of the world ever sense. Somehow our leaders today (except for Trump) don't understand that you cannot "give" people democracy. They need to want it and earn it for themselves. This is the "Make America Great Again" movement.

Although the Social Justice Warriors would have you think that your starting point in life is all that matters, it isn't. People born to families higher on the socioeconomic ladder do have a leg up, mostly because they tend to get a better basic education which makes them more prepared to rise in the world. Some, like Trump, get a goose from family money. Others, like the Vanderbilt's squandered their legacy and have to trade on the famous family name. But people with natural talents like athletes and musicians and actors rise well above where the vast majority of the rest of us ever could. Even the poorest among us who were born and raised in a ghetto are somehow able to rise above their station to become multi millionaires due to hard work and good choices. That is the American dream and what makes America great. You may start out ahead of the pack but you only end up ahead of the pack through your own efforts. The less advantageous among us can easily go to the front through their own efforts. That is what used to make us different and why so many gave up their homelands and families to come here - legally. Now you are told you will end up ahead of the pack by doing nothing for yourself. All you need is to take something from someone who has more so you start out "equal".

I thought it was about rivers and rescources, and the opportunity they created.

 

[Pat Hartman]

The implication of the video is that the geographical features are the ONLY reason that the US ended up as a superpower. Our excellent resources gave us a leg up but the American people did the rest, not to mention the effects WWI and WWII had on our manufacturing capabilities. We may have become a superpower anyway, but the two wars made it happen in the 1950's.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

One of the most important reasons the USA became such a powerhouse after WWII was simple: So many factories had been bombed into the dirt during the war that the normally bustling German, French, Italian, Russian, Japanese, Chinese, and British factories took years to recover. During that time, the USA had no serious industrial competition. Certainly, Europe was a wreck. Much of East and Southeast Asia was a wreck. The few nations that had avoided the worst of the bombing were not bombed because for the most part, they were lower capacity and thus lower priority targets.

The USA, because of the vast distances involved, were out of reach of most Axis forces. Other than a few U-boat scares, the only place that had any serious enemy activity was Pearl Harbor.

 

[jpl458]

Well said,Doc. The Japanese did capture an island in the Aleutions during WW 11, but not for long. BTW, in what discipline was your Doctorate and what was your thesis,. (I believe that I read you were a Phd.)

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Well said,Doc. The Japanese did capture an island in the Aleutions during WW 11, but not for long. BTW, in what discipline was your Doctorate and what was your thesis,. (I believe that I read you were a Phd.)

PhD in Analytical Chemistry, my subject was on computer-monitored experiments in chemical kinetics using colorimetry. It was a mechanistic study in the formation of the compound 10-Molybdo-2-vanado-phosphoric acid, which is related to certain oil paints. Those who dabble in such art supplies would recognize Molybdenum Blue and Vanadium Yellow. Those chemicals are sometimes used to measure levels of phosphate in potable water since phosphates are often used in pesticides. I could tell you more, but this is usually as far as I get on that question before my listener's eyes glaze over.

 

[jpl458]

The father of a high school friend was was the head Fuels and Lubricants Research for General Motors. Early on, he was the person that developed the method of covering pistion heads with aluminium, which turned to aluminium oxide, which was not corrosive. That technique was used on milions of cars. I was good friend with his daughter. He had this Oldsmobile that had been modified by GM with a really powerfull engine. On occasions when I was able to drive the car, I never lost a drag race. Before I went to college, he wanted me to get a chemistry degree and go into gas chromotography. Excuse my digression

 

[Steve R.]

The implication of the video is that the geographical features are the ONLY reason that the US ended up as a superpower. Our excellent resources gave us a leg up but the American people did the rest, not to mention the effects WWI and WWII had on our manufacturing capabilities. We may have become a superpower anyway, but the two wars made it happen in the 1950's.

As @Pat Hartman correctly observed, the video severely overemphasized the role of "geographical features". As to why the US became a superpower, culture is perhaps a more significant component. The culture being Judaeo-Cristian ethics, protestant work ethics, and nationalism (Manifest Destiny). (As a side note, the US did have a civil war starting in 1861 that could have permanently fractured the country. There are still echos of "the South shall rise again.")

There are other countries that could have become extremely successful, but not necessarily superpowers. These countries include, (give or take a few) Russia, China, and Argentina. These countries have not historically blossomed because of corruption. Other things to consider, Cuba and Venezuela have become "basket cases" as a consequence of socialism. Other formerly prosperous colonies countries, that threw-off the yoke of colonialism (sarcasm), have also become "basket cases", such as South Africa and Zimbabwe.

The US, in the near future, may soon loose its superpower status to China. There appear to be two reasons. First, China has a much larger population and has become economic steamroller (Walmart being a corporate subsidiary). (Evidently there are indications that China's economy is sputtering.) Second, the US is now "inwardly" focused. Concepts such as nationalism, citizenship, equal rights, the rule of law, and meritocracy are now vilified. Under the current administration, the government is now devoted to concepts such as racism, diversity, inclusion, implementing a welfare state, climate change, and eliminating the concept of citizenship. These are all centrifugal forces tearing the country apart. Will this mean that the US will slowly devolve into a new Cuba or Venezuela?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Evidently there are indications that China's economy is sputtering.

If I may interject, see the YouTube offerings of Peter Zeihan on this topic. When you do, the YouTube "predictive" algorithms will show you other articles by other content providers.

China has an infrastructure problem because of potential shoddy materials that cause their roads and bridges to fail FAR sooner than expected.

China has an economics problem because they invested SO much money in building apartments that the cash flow to finish the apartments faltered and now the people who WOULD have lived in those apartments cannot live in them and cannot afford to pay for unliveable residences.

China has a labor problem because their "one family, one child" policy that lasted for nearly a full generation has created a "moving population gap" that is coming due very soon - a gap when there will not be enough working people paying taxes to support the retirees AND there will not be enough people of working age to maintain their economy. China's birth rate DECREASED in the last couple of years. India is likely to surpass China as the most populous country on Earth.

Any one of those problems would be bad. All of them taken together paint a dismal picture. The ONLY reason China MIGHT survive this is that, after all, they are NOT a democracy. They CAN unilaterally adjust retirement age. But that moving population gap will stop working when the workers start dying. They CAN print more paper money and let inflation resolve itself so that the vacant apartments could be finished. They CAN use more of that paper money to work on the physically decaying infrastructure of roads and bridges that can't hold traffic. What they WILL do remains to be seen.

 

[jpl458]

As @Pat Hartman correctly observed, the video severely overemphasized the role of "geographical features". As to why the US became a superpower, culture is perhaps a more significant component. The culture being Judaeo-Cristian ethics, protestant work ethics, and nationalism (Manifest Destiny). (As a side note, the US did have a civil war starting in 1861 that could have permanently fractured the country. There are still echos of "the South shall rise again.")

There are other countries that could have become extremely successful, but not necessarily superpowers. These countries include, (give or take a few) Russia, China, and Argentina. These countries have not historically blossomed because of corruption. Other things to consider, Cuba and Venezuela have become "basket cases" as a consequence of socialism. Other formerly prosperous colonies countries, that threw-off the yoke of colonialism (sarcasm), have also become "basket cases", such as South Africa and Zimbabwe.

The US, in the near future, may soon loose its superpower status to China. There appear to be two reasons. First, China has a much larger population and has become economic steamroller (Walmart being a corporate subsidiary). (Evidently there are indications that China's economy is sputtering.) Second, the US is now "inwardly" focused. Concepts such as nationalism, citizenship, equal rights, the rule of law, and meritocracy are now vilified. Under the current administration, the government is now devoted to concepts such as racism, diversity, inclusion, implementing a welfare state, climate change, and eliminating the concept of citizenship. These are all centrifugal forces tearing the country apart. Will this mean that the US will slowly devolve into a new Cuba or Venezuela?

But none of the countries you mention had the river system the Americe enjoyed, that was the point. America was unique in that aspect.

 

[Pat Hartman]

But none of the countries you mention had the river system the Americe enjoyed, that was the point. America was unique in that aspect.

I guess you didn't read my third sentence which acknowledges the importance of our natural geography and mineral resources. Did the native Americans have the advantage of the rivers? This is a yes or no question. Why did they not become a superpower? Much longer answer.

The POINT which you missed is that just having resources isn't enough. If it were, the Native Americans would be the superpower. It took PEOPLE - you know those evil white colonists with their Judeo-Christian morals and work ethic and just plain gumption to USE what God gave them to their advantage. Why does everyone who gets a 100 million dollars from their father not become a billionaire like Trump did? Because you have to USE your assets to their best advantage and most people look at 100 million and can't wait to fritter it away on fancy cars and thousand dollar bottles of wine. Trump took the money and made it grow.

Having a leg up gives you a solid start but does not guarantee success. Success is controlled by YOU and how you manage your resources to obtain the best outcome.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I think another factor is that Europe actually has some pretty good natural waterways as well - but there, they are fractured by smaller-than-continent-sized countries who in the past were enemies rather than allies, so the impact of those resources was blunted. In the USA, when the impact of the Mississippi River seriously took effect, it was because the USA bought the Louisiana Purchase territory wholesale, not piecemeal, thus not at all fractured in impact.

 

[jpl458]

I guess you didn't read my third sentence which acknowledges the importance of our natural geography and mineral resources. Did the native Americans have the advantage of the rivers? This is a yes or no question. Why did they not become a superpower? Much longer answer.

The POINT which you missed is that just having resources isn't enough. If it were, the Native Americans would be the superpower. It took PEOPLE - you know those evil white colonists with their Judeo-Christian morals and work ethic and just plain gumption to USE what God gave them to their advantage. Why does everyone who gets a 100 million dollars from their father not become a billionaire like Trump did? Because you have to USE your assets to their best advantage and most people look at 100 million and can't wait to fritter it away on fancy cars and thousand dollar bottles of wine. Trump took the money and made it grow.

Having a leg up gives you a solid start but does not guarantee success. Success is controlled by YOU and how you manage your resources to obtain the best outcome.

Pat, there s no argument here. I saw a video and thought is was interesting. All it said was that America had some cool waterways that helped. The idians used the waterways but not for the kind of commerece that the europeans developed when they got here. Nothing complicated, no stance to be taken.

 

[jpl458]

I think another factor is that Europe actually has some pretty good natural waterways as well - but there, they are fractured by smaller-than-continent-sized countries who in the past were enemies rather than allies, so the impact of those resources was blunted. In the USA, when the impact of the Mississippi River seriously took effect, it was because the USA bought the Louisiana Purchase territory wholesale, not piecemeal, thus not at all fractured in impact.

That was discussed in the video.

 

[jpl458]

I guess you didn't read my third sentence which acknowledges the importance of our natural geography and mineral resources. Did the native Americans have the advantage of the rivers? This is a yes or no question. Why did they not become a superpower? Much longer answer.

The POINT which you missed is that just having resources isn't enough. If it were, the Native Americans would be the superpower. It took PEOPLE - you know those evil white colonists with their Judeo-Christian morals and work ethic and just plain gumption to USE what God gave them to their advantage. Why does everyone who gets a 100 million dollars from their father not become a billionaire like Trump did? Because you have to USE your assets to their best advantage and most people look at 100 million and can't wait to fritter it away on fancy cars and thousand dollar bottles of wine. Trump took the money and made it grow.

Having a leg up gives you a solid start but does not guarantee success. Success is controlled by YOU and how you manage your resources to obtain the best outcome.

Pat, that is obvious.