What's your feeling about churches and Christianity? (1 Viewer)

vba_php

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During the Noah days, what happened to the food chain? Did the Lions eat only the male animals, after the female had been made pregnant, otherwise the entire food chain collapses?

Why didn't he wipe out the fish too?
he$$ I have no idea Jon. I would say you could try your luck through prayer, but I doubt that will get you anywhere. As the story goes, 2 of every kind of being was allowed to live....everything else was wiped out, except the fish of course I would guess. Surprisingly too, I don't know if you know this, but the bible's telling of the story of Noah and the Flood is not the first telling of that same story. It's origins go back a lot further than the days of Noah.
 

kevlray

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he$$ I have no idea Jon. I would say you could try your luck through prayer, but I doubt that will get you anywhere. As the story goes, 2 of every kind of being was allowed to live....everything else was wiped out, except the fish of course I would guess. Surprisingly too, I don't know if you know this, but the bible's telling of the story of Noah and the Flood is not the first telling of that same story. It's origins go back a lot further than the days of Noah.


The flood story does have some questions in regard to the aquatic animals. I am presuming that since they were in the water already, there was no reason to put them on an ark. The Bible does not say how the animals were cared for while on the ark. It is possible (all things are possible for God), that God kept the animal 'fed' and 'watered' through means beyond our understanding. I know a lot of the Old Testament stories have roots in other cultures. So does that make it less possible?
 

The_Doc_Man

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Adam, you think I'm snappish? You should visit New Orleans to find out about "wait staff with attitude!"

My attitude is on display for all to see. You are perfectly welcome to go through all 12k+ posts to distill your opinion of my attitude.
 

Jon

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If you think in food chain terms, the lions need lots of food, so they eat. And they keep eating. Food goes off, so a kill one day does not last for long. So they kill again. Any death is losing a male or female of the species, and so they cannot procreate. And it is not just the lions. The dogs eat the rabbits, the cats eat the mice, and the pray mantis eats their partner after sex.

Having just two of any species is clearly not enough, a miscalculation of sorts.
 

vba_php

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Adam, you think I'm snappish? You should visit New Orleans to find out about "wait staff with attitude!"

My attitude is on display for all to see. You are perfectly welcome to go through all 12k+ posts to distill your opinion of my attitude.
I never said you were snappish Richard. I said you seem to have a negative or pessimistic view on a lot of things. I'm fully aware that New Orleans is more of a fight to survive than this hick-town area of Iowa that live in.
 

scott-atkinson

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it's not an excuse Scott. You're mistaken. The Lord tells his people that he's giving them this will as a gift to them after the *supposed* flood in Noah's day happened. He promises in Genesis that he will never flood the earth again and kill all living beings. Furthermore, the *supposed* creation story of Adam and Eve also shows this about him. It is Eve's free will that results in her eating the bad apple. If there was no free will, God would've prevented that because he knew the apple came from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Well maybe if God had'nt of given us Free Will we wouldn't be killing each other as much as we do as God would have prevented this...

And just because God gave us Free Will if he was real he would see how much we are absolutely abusing that and would step in like any loving parent would if they saw their children putting themselves into danger and doing things wrong repeatedly... But gues what he does;nt because he does'nt exist...

Or worse he does, and he just simply doesn't care having already moved onto his next pet project...
 

kevlray

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Over and over again the Jews (God's chosen people) would lapse in and out of obedience to God. When they disobeyed they were punished (other groups would attack, famine, disease, insects that would eat the crops), when they obeyed, they prospered. So in the New Testament. We look to the afterlife for our reward (sin and corruption is everywhere). We only have peace because we believe in a God that will carry us through any hardship we have to endure.
 

The_Doc_Man

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Then there is the claim that God made us in His own image.

After looking in the mirror this morning, I think He must be having a bad hair day.
 

vba_php

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Got a sick sense of humor
the saints of history have generally not had much of a sense of humor. that doesn't mean that God has none. But in general, especially in the Catholic church, humor is a few-and-far between thing I believe. Other denominations like where I came from, and am now leaving, the E-FREE church, uses humor quite extensively because they get so many overly-serious people in there. It's absolutely necessary for them to joke around so they don't anger the angry people. Kind of like some *here* perhaps? Maybe not....as I've said many times before, I could be wrong!
Then there is the claim that God made us in His own image.

After looking in the mirror this morning, I think He must be having a bad hair day.
Richard, True, the book says we are made in his own image, however as God is an all-encompassing spirit, he has no form officially. And for another goodie, take a look at this. Why does your javascript line break code appear before the response page completely loads!? It seems to me that this might be a server problem for John. Perhaps it's not as fast as it needs to be? It could be my connection too....

<edit>
I upgraded my data plan to a high speed connection and I haven't see that js code so far yet, so more than likely it was because my mobile connection was slower than normal.
 

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Mike375

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The Great Flood? Never happened. Because if it had, the Australian, South American, and North American continents should have been devoid of animal life and people. But they weren't.

You have to bear in mind with "born again" Christians and other Bible believers that their starting premise is God exits. In fact for purposes of the Bible God having existed will do the trick.

For Joshua to stop the Sun in the sky the earth had to stop spinning so everyone should have flown off at between 700 mph and a 1000 mph or so. HOWEVER, if God existed He could change the laws of nature, suspend them, have them work a different way in different places etc. If God wanted a talking snake in the Garden of Eden he could have had a talking snake.

Think of it this way. I think it is fair to say fitting a 27 litre V12 Rolls Royce Merlin engine in a Toyota Corolla is impossible. However, for Toyota things are different since they make the Corolla and could bring out a new Corolla with a 27 litre V12 engine. In other words they are not stuck at the impossible as they don't have to convert an existing Toyota Corolla.

Personally I can't see any difference between the "born again" and the atheist. Neither have proof but their belief is strong to become faith. Faith is an extension of belief in the sense that without proof faith means you will act on something or have a very definite position.

As a small example. Tomorrow a mate of mine is coming here at lunch time. Of course I don't have proof he will be here. However, I not only believe he will be here but I have faith because I have acted on him coming here tomorrow, related to some other arrangements. However, if it was one of couple of other mates I would say to the other people "a mate of mine is supposed to be coming here tomorrow and I believe he will but I will call you about 11.30am as by then I will know for sure"
 

The_Doc_Man

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Mike375, my issue is this:

Yes, a truly all-powerful God could not only make things happen that shouldn't be possible but can even make it happen in a way that it would seem to us to BE natural. But this hypothetical God has consistently gone out of His way to make it seem that He doesn't exist by providing us with physical-world explanations.

If we are to contemplate God's works, contemplate THAT one - the absolutely perfect camouflage that makes it seem that He does not exist. Complete with physical processes that let us explain nearly everything without resorting to Him at all. And we keep on making new discoveries that merely add to that camouflage.

I have a choice to make between two cases:

1. God made it all but in a way that made it look like it was all natural.

or

2. It really WAS all natural.

According to Occam's Razor, I am correct if I choose the simplest explanation that fits the facts. I choose #2 because #1 pops another layer of complexity into the equation. It is a HUGE layer of complexity that adds questions regarding the origin of this God as well as the nature of a being not merely not of this planet but not of this universe (since the Bible says God was there before the universe existed.)

If you want to see the difference between the devoutly religious people and atheists, we like simpler explanations that avoid magic.
 

kevlray

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Advanced technology and magic can be misinterpreted. Consider a primitive tribe when they see a lighter used for the first time (magic?).
 

scott-atkinson

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Advanced technology and magic can be misinterpreted. Consider a primitive tribe when they see a lighter used for the first time (magic?).

So maybe God is not a deity, but simply a very very advanced Alien..
 

AccessBlaster

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According to Occam's Razor, I am correct if I choose the simplest explanation that fits the facts. I choose #2 because #1 pops another layer of complexity into the equation. It is a HUGE layer of complexity that adds questions regarding the origin of this God as well as the nature of a being not merely not of this planet but not of this universe (since the Bible says God was there before the universe existed.)

If you want to see the difference between the devoutly religious people and atheists, we like simpler explanations that avoid magic.
The problem with Occam's Razor is choice or faith, therein lies the rub.

Similar to roulette it not a 50/50 chance of hitting black, more like 47.3 you have to factor in the green.
 

The_Doc_Man

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AB, didn't say my answer was right for everyone. But you at least know on what I based my answer. And to me, it isn't 50/50 at all. Because I tend to look at logic and science, and because the only god left is the "god of the gaps" (and those gaps shrink smaller every day), the odds (if I were using the Gaussian probability method) are WELL past five standard deviations. That's 99.999+ percent.

The problem with making the roulette analogy or with rolling dice or any other random result method is that all such methods are unbiased. Each number on the roulette wheel has the exact same odds regardless of color. Each face on dice has equal odds of coming up. Picking a card in a truly randomized deck has no bias towards any card. To me, the odds are heavily weighted against the existence of a deity.

I'll be as clear as I can... you are right that it is a matter of choice. Each of us makes that decision based on the factors in our lives that guide us to trust this or that person, give weight to this or that fact, etc. I have chosen based on my preferred factors.
 
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AccessBlaster

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Doc,
Four years ago my mother died at my house a couple of weeks after suffering a massive right-side stroke. She spent the last two weeks of her life on hospice, she was also a volunteer for hospice. I thank God everyday I had the opportunity to help my mother leave this planet in a peaceful and dignified manner.

She had end of life documents and a will that I was asked to complete. In her end of life papers she spelled out her wishes in regards life support. She was clear in her wishes, I had to decide between life and death of my mother.

That experience as you know Doc will test your faith in just about everything.
 

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