Windows Update (1 Viewer)

Steve R.

Retired
Local time
Today, 06:47
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
3,049
PS: unfortunately unable to get a new PC just for testing. (due to university expenses) :(
The Linux community likes to gloat that Linux is great for "old" PCs (where MS Windows won't work any longer).
So you may be able to get a cheap older PC/Laptop with which to experiment with.
 

Sun_Force

Member
Local time
Today, 19:47
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
207
The Linux community likes to gloat that Linux is great for "old" PCs (where MS Windows won't work any longer).
So you may be able to get a cheap older PC/Laptop with which to experiment with.
We have Linux machines here and I can ask one of the professors to give me a pass to use one of them. But still I don't know what to test. Obviousely they are more secure, but to my knowledge less productive in common tasks a PC is expected to perform. So still I'm not sure what to test.
Any app I want to install doesn't support Linux OS.
 

Steve R.

Retired
Local time
Today, 06:47
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
3,049
The teases seem to be accelerating to jinn-up public interest.

But still I don't know what to test. Obviousely they are more secure, but to my knowledge less productive in common tasks a PC is expected to perform. So still I'm not sure what to test.
You have not specified what type of applications you wish to test. Furthermore, how "efficient" an application may be on a platform (Linux vs. MS Windows) may not be that easy to discern without actual testing. Windows Server 2019 Performance Benchmarked Against Linux On An Intel Xeon Server (December 2018). I have not read the article. One take-away, even the different Linux distributions scored differently.

Any app I want to install doesn't support Linux OS.
As you have not specified what type of apps you are interested in, it is difficult to respond. The generic response, are there substitutes for what you want do do?
As an example, LibreOffice is an excellent substitute for MS Windows Office Suite (Microsoft Office Professional 2019). LibreOffice is also free. LibreOffice, by the way, can be installed on an MS Windows computer. As for MS Access, the substitute would be to use MariaDB, as one option, and then develop a user backend interface. Yes, that is work. That is the route that I took. There are many different ways, as the expression goes: "to skin the cat". Its a matter of researching.
 

The_Doc_Man

Immoderate Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Today, 05:47
Joined
Feb 28, 2001
Messages
20,062
Having studied O/S specifics, let's start with a difference in original intent. LINUX, AIX, UNIX, and a whole bunch of other proprietary names were long ago derived from UNIX, which was developed as a light-weight operating system to do time-sliced multi-tasking on networking equipment. It had primitive I/O structure and practically no overhead. EVERYTHING initially was treated as a bit-stream. The growth of UNIX and its variants comes from the fact that it was incredibly lightweight to begin with, so you could add features and still not quickly drag it down.

Of course, with age comes growth of features, improvement in stability, and a ton of development. UNIX variants have now become very powerful and quite capable time-sharing systems as well as dedicated device managers.

It took Dave Cutler to rework Windows through that major overhaul that was Windows NT. That was necessary because all versions of Windows prior to that were actually shells surrounding a DOS nucleus. Sometimes well-hidden - but DOS was in there. Microsoft knew that to survive in a government environment (particularly after publication of the "Orange Book") that they would have to do a LOT better. Starting with Windows NT, the more complex Windows security model has taken over from the really weak DOS model.

Both Windows and UNIX variants HAD to improve their security because they knew their biggest customer would be the Federal Government, and with the publication of the Orange Book they would have stringent standards to meet or be disqualified from bidding on computer contracts for the feds. They succeeded.

Now the major players are Windows and UNIX-family. UNIX is still capable of being "lightweight" whereas it is harder to lighten the load for Windows due to the multitasking environment having more complexity. But to the government, "heavyweight" isn't always bad because it is an excuse to buy a bigger, better machine to run that fat pig... (excuse me, operating system) with decent response.

In any argument about which is better, the distinct - and only - real answer is "Yes." They both have their strengths. They both have their weaknesses. They both have come a long way from the 1970s and 1980s.
 

Steve R.

Retired
Local time
Today, 06:47
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
3,049
Now the major players are Windows and UNIX-family. UNIX is still capable of being "lightweight" whereas it is harder to lighten the load for Windows due to the multitasking environment having more complexity.
Clarification needed. Unix, started out as a multitasking OS (environment) and has remained so through its (forked) evolution into Linux. Consequently, I find it difficult to comprehend that it would somehow be "harder to lighten the load for Windows due to the multitasking environment having more complexity." My anecdotal assumption would be that the MS Windows "complexity" of implementing multitasking should actually be considered overly complex (bloated, deficient).
 
Last edited:

The_Doc_Man

Immoderate Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Today, 05:47
Joined
Feb 28, 2001
Messages
20,062
My anecdotal assumption would be that the MS Windows "complexity" of implementing multitasking should actually be considered overly complex (bloated, deficient).
You DID see my comment-in-passing, did you not? "But to the government, 'heavyweight' isn't always bad because it is an excuse to buy a bigger, better machine to run that fat pig... (excuse me, operating system) with decent response."

Part of Windows involves event management and the GUI that is in a different layer for UNIX machines. In fact, up to Win 3.21, DOS was the base and Windows was just a layer. Starting with WinNT, the base is Windows and the DOS (CMD) environment is the layer. At that point, a lot of the paging and swapping control merged back into the Process Scheduler. No, that is not the thing that runs batch jobs and programs at specific times. It is the thing that manages the processes attempting to share resources in the machine among competing processes.

WAY back, so long ago that most people won't remember it, computers used SWAPPING to maximize use of memory. Swapping involved writing whole memory images out to disk and then reading in different images. Slow but actually effective, particularly if you had a lot of batch oriented jobs to run. The Atlas computer (Univ. of Manchester, 1963) was the first to do PAGING - essentially, partial swapping - so that using a time-slice method plus probability-based paging, multiple tasks could be partly in memory. Now, the Windows memory dynamics model matches one that was used in 1977 for OpenVMS. In the interests of brevity, I will avoid a detailed discussion of virtual demand-paged memory with least-recently-used prioritization. But that is what Windows uses. Look up "Windows Paging Dynamics" if you get overly curious.

Clarification needed. Unix, started out as a multitasking OS (environment) and has remained so through its (forked) evolution into Linux.

UNIX does advanced memory management too, but that was a later development. You need to re-read that article you cited. UNIX really started out as an offshoot of MULTICS - a time-sharing O/S. The project become bloated enough that Bell Labs pulled out of the project and started their own project that led to UNIX which ran on an old DEC PDP-7 (a predecessor of the PDP-11). The FIRST UNIX was not multi-processing because it was dedicated for switching devices. It HAD to be lightweight because Bell Labs (AT&T) wanted it as a smart device controller. You see, in that time frame, industrial manufacturers started looking at software-controlled logic sequencers as a way to automate complicated steps. UNIX-like lightweight O/S implementations made it possible to use software in ways that commercial manufacturers had never considered.

I was blown away by this next fact, but one of the earliest modern devices to be automated was ... the industrial washing machine. (Not claiming it was the first.) The mechanical timers and complex relay sequencers gave way to computer instructions. Think about it... not less than 10 wash settings such as "Delicates" and "Wash & Wear" and "Heavy Items" - with water-temperature control, spin speed control, ... all done by a microchip and a ROM chip and a small amount of RAM for working space. Early UNIX was IDEAL for that concept. A friend of mine worked on that project and I almost went to work with him - though I found another job that was more interesting and more chemistry-oriented before he could woo me to his shop. (After all, my "Doc" IS a chemistry PhD...)

As time passed, the open nature of UNIX led to multiple variant implementations such that by the 1990s, a pot-load of versions existed. At the time, the competition among multiple vendors was called "the Unix Wars." Eventually, UNIX "standards" fell under the Open Systems Foundation (or its predecessor) and the multiple versions of UNIX that had diverged so dramatically have begun to converge. However, at the time I retired in 2016, my department security status tracker registered 11 different flavors of UNIX that were not merely different versions of one O/S.
 

Steve R.

Retired
Local time
Today, 06:47
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
3,049
You DID see my comment-in-passing, did you not? "But to the government, 'heavyweight' isn't always bad because it is an excuse to buy a bigger, better machine to run that fat pig... (excuse me, operating system) with decent response."
Yes, but I not make that connection. Thanks for clarifying.
 

Steve R.

Retired
Local time
Today, 06:47
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
3,049
The reality of Windows 11 continues to gel. The pending demise of Windows 10 even generated some posts on a Linux forum. Below is one of many such articles that are now appearing concerning Windows 11. Eight days to the big reveal.
 
Last edited:

Steve R.

Retired
Local time
Today, 06:47
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
3,049
Looks like I get in a pro-Linux dig!:love:
In my personal opinion, the Windows team should have come up with a different signature look than just being “inspired” by our beloved Linux Desktops.
 

conception_native_0123

Active member
Local time
Today, 05:47
Joined
Mar 13, 2021
Messages
886
I've noticed some crypto mining applications seem to mostly be made for Linux
If I were you and everybody else I would stay the heck away from cryptocurrency mining anything. I can't tell you how many criminals I've run across that operate fake sales platforms within that realm
 

conception_native_0123

Active member
Local time
Today, 05:47
Joined
Mar 13, 2021
Messages
886
Looks like I get in a pro-Linux dig!:love:
I remember when Windows 7 was changed to make it look more like. Wasn't it the macintosh? I can't remember when that happened. Or maybe it was the change that was intended to make Windows look like a tablet computer instead of a desktop machine. I'm talking about whatever change front windows out of looking like one huge menu and into a bunch of square buttons that you could press with your finger.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom