Immunity puzzle

[jpl458]

Trump filed papers with the Supreme Court claiming he is immune from prosecution because he was President. If the court finds that he is immune, wouldn't that immunity pass to Biden and every other President?

 

[AccessBlaster]

You answered your own question.

 

[Steve R.]

Trump filed papers with the Supreme Court claiming he is immune from prosecution because he was President. If the court finds that he is immune, wouldn't that immunity pass to Biden and every other President?

There is a huge "hole" in your post. The President does have what is called Executive Privilege. Independent of that concept, there is what is call Attorney Client privilege. These are historic norms. The Biden administration has purposely withdrawn, in terms of Trump, both Executive Privilege and the Attorney Client privilege. These are repulsive unconstitutional actions by the Biden administration. So why do you endlessly beat the drum that Trump is somehow abusing the judicial system when it is the Biden administration using the judicial system inappropriately to persecute Trump?

 

[jpl458]

There is a huge "hole" in your post. The President does have what is called Executive Privilege. Independent of that concept, there is what is call Attorney Client privilege. These are historic norms. The Biden administration has purposely withdrawn, in terms of Trump, both Executive Privilege and the Attorney Client privilege. These are repulsive unconstitutional actions by the Biden administration. So why do you endlessly beat the drum that Trump is somehow abusing the judicial system when it is the Biden administration using the judicial system inappropriately to persecute Trump?

Priviledge is not immunity. But if the court finds for Trump, then Biden can do all things you described, and there is no accountability. It's a dilema that has horns.

 

[Steve R.]

Priviledge is not immunity.

It been historically recognized as a "privilege" of the President.

 

[jpl458]

Show me the law, or any ruling, or the part of the constitution that says a president is immune. There is none. That is why Trump is filing with the supreme court. If he wins, then Biden can do what ever he wants. Same for every new President. I am not talking about lawyer client priviledge. Trump claims he is immune because he was president. That is the only issue.

 

[Steve R.]

Show me the law, or any ruling, or the part of the constitution that says a president is immune. There is none. That is why Trump is filing with the supreme court. If he wins, then Biden can do what ever he wants. Same for every new President. I am not talking about lawyer client priviledge. Trump claims he is immune because he was president. That is the only issue.

Surprising that you have no concern that Biden is using abusive tactics that many not even be legal to cripple Trump. But you take the adversarial approach that Trump protecting himself is somehow wrong. Executive Privilege and Attorney Client privilege are well known legal constructs. Trump should not have to go to court, Biden is using the the power of the state to persecute Trump.

 

[jpl458]

Surprising that you have no concern that Biden is using abusive tactics that many not even be legal to cripple Trump. But you take the adversarial approach that Trump protecting himself is somehow wrong. Executive Privilege and Attorney Client privilege are well known legal constructs. Trump should not have to go to court, Biden is using the the power of the state to persecute Trump.

I ask again, show me any law, ruling or part of the Constitution that says any President is immune. It's about any President. I asked a specific question.

 

[Steve R.]

I ask again, show me any law, ruling or part of the Constitution that says any President is immune. It's about any President. I asked a specific question.

You should be condemning Biden for unlawfully forcing Trump to go to court to defend himself.

 

[jpl458]

Trump claims he is immune. Does the immunity only apply to Trump? You keep deflecting. Simple question: if the court grants immunity does that not also apply to any President, now and in the future? I am talking about this single issue. Just looking for a simple answer to a direct question.

 

[Steve R.]

Again, Biden is using the power of the state to persecute Trump. That immunity has historically applied to Presidents. Biden is changing the rules to single out Trump for persecution. Your question, once again is malformed since Presidents have historically had that immunity.

 

[AccessBlaster]

If Trump won immunity through the court system that would set precedent therfore every president after the ruling would qualify, no?

 

[Jon]

Trump claims he is immune. Does the immunity only apply to Trump? You keep deflecting. Simple question: if the court grants immunity does that not also apply to any President, now and in the future? I am talking about this single issue. Just looking for a simple answer to a direct question.

Should the President be immune from political prosecution and unfair trials? Maybe that is the real question that should be answered, since that is what this is really all about.

 

[Isaac]

Trump filed papers with the Supreme Court claiming he is immune from prosecution because he was President. If the court finds that he is immune, wouldn't that immunity pass to Biden and every other President?

Why would it automatically be the same? Isn't every legal claim and set of facts represent a unique combination?

 

[AccessBlaster]

The immunity has been assumed since 1776.

Like everything else Trump related that will be tested by the Supreme Court.

 

[moke123]

I have some immunity in my job. But that immunity only pertains to my actions while performing it. Trump is only immune from actions performed in relation to his official duties. Just like Clinton was not immune to lawsuits which fell outside his official duties. Campaigning for re-election is not part of the presidents official duties.


One thing I find amusing is that trump has no one, or at least no one who's competent, coordinating his legal strategies. In one case he's claiming immunity because he holds the office of president while in others he claims he is not an officer. He cant move Georgia to federal court like meadows tried because then he's admitting he is an officer. Another is that whatever he pleads in one case can then be used in others. I read that his attorney in the E. Jean Carrol case will be using the testimony in trumps fraud case where he claims his assets are way more than stated. The amount of punitive damages will based on trumps own pleadings. Stable Genius.

 

[AccessBlaster]

He'll be President or not by the time this is all settled. So the only thing we can now is wait for @jpl458 to start a new random thread, then we can start all over again.

 

[Jon]

I have some immunity in my job. But that immunity only pertains to my actions while performing it. Trump is only immune from actions performed in relation to his official duties. Just like Clinton was not immune to lawsuits which fell outside his official duties. Campaigning for re-election is not part of the presidents official duties.

The Trump team are arguing that they were within his official duties.

They argue that the actions invoked by his indictment – he is charged with conspiring to defraud the U.S., conspiring to disenfranchise voters, and conspiring to obstruct an official proceeding as part of his election overturn effort – were part of his official duties as president.

As such, he should be immune from prosecution for it, according to the brief, filed by Trump lawyers including John Lauro and Todd Blanche.

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ts-theres-no-reason-act-trial-date-nears.html

 

[moke123]

The Trump team are arguing that they were within his official duties.

Lordy, There are tapes.

Former President Trump pressured two members of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers in Michigan not to certify the 2020 presidential elections, the Detroit News reported Thursday, citing audio recordings.

Why it matters: News of the recordings comes as the 2024 Republican presidential primary front-runner faces four criminal indictments, including charges of conspiracy related to his alleged attempts to retain power in the wake of losing the 2020 election.

In a phone call on Nov. 17, 2020, Trump told GOP Wayne County canvassers Monica Palmer and William Hartmann they'd look "terrible" if they signed documents certifying the election after initially voting against it, according to The Detroit News.
"We've got to fight for our country," Trump allegedly said on the recording. "We can't let these people take our country away from us."

A spokesperson for Trump told Axios in an email: "All of President Trump's actions were taken in furtherance of his duty as President of the United States to faithfully take care of the laws and ensure election integrity, including investigating the rigged and stolen 2020 Presidential Election."

Additionally McDaniels offered to supply them with Legal representation.

So if trump was investigating a rigged election, why is he not asking what the facts are, rather than telling them not to sign the papers and we'll get you lawyers? Lots of implications. Consciousness of guilt, prior bad acts, etc.

It is disturbing to me that you are always so happy about how Trump is being persecuted and do not see this as a breakdown of our legal system because you think the evil orange man deserves it. This double standard is going to be the death of the country.

I do see this as a breakdown of the legal system of which I've been heavily involved in for over 40 years.

What I find disturbing is not that it is trump saying the things he says, and not necessarily everything he does.
I find it disturbing that people believe the things he says and it is working.

 

[Jon]

So if trump was investigating a rigged election, why is he not asking what the facts are, rather than telling them not to sign the papers and we'll get you lawyers?

Trumps legal team will also have the tapes, and rebuttals or reasons for why what he did was legitimate action and part of his official duties. No doubt one explanation would be to prevent a fraudulent election, as perceived by The Donald, or Orange Hitler from the Democrats perspective. Shall we make mock-ups of his head and distribute them as a dart board Christmas present for Dems with TDS?

I find it disturbing that people believe the things he says and it is working.

I find it disturbing that those watching CNN were believing the Russia collusion tripe that went on 24/7 for years.

What I find disturbing is not that it is trump saying the things he says, and not necessarily everything he does.

And look at what Biden says about bringing the country together. What he has done has made it more divided than it ever was, post civil-war.