Immunity puzzle (1 Viewer)

[jpl458]

Trump filed papers with the Supreme Court claiming he is immune from prosecution because he was President. If the court finds that he is immune, wouldn't that immunity pass to Biden and every other President?

 

[AccessBlaster]

You answered your own question.

 

[Steve R.]

Trump filed papers with the Supreme Court claiming he is immune from prosecution because he was President. If the court finds that he is immune, wouldn't that immunity pass to Biden and every other President?

There is a huge "hole" in your post. The President does have what is called Executive Privilege. Independent of that concept, there is what is call Attorney Client privilege. These are historic norms. The Biden administration has purposely withdrawn, in terms of Trump, both Executive Privilege and the Attorney Client privilege. These are repulsive unconstitutional actions by the Biden administration. So why do you endlessly beat the drum that Trump is somehow abusing the judicial system when it is the Biden administration using the judicial system inappropriately to persecute Trump?

 

[jpl458]

There is a huge "hole" in your post. The President does have what is called Executive Privilege. Independent of that concept, there is what is call Attorney Client privilege. These are historic norms. The Biden administration has purposely withdrawn, in terms of Trump, both Executive Privilege and the Attorney Client privilege. These are repulsive unconstitutional actions by the Biden administration. So why do you endlessly beat the drum that Trump is somehow abusing the judicial system when it is the Biden administration using the judicial system inappropriately to persecute Trump?

Priviledge is not immunity. But if the court finds for Trump, then Biden can do all things you described, and there is no accountability. It's a dilema that has horns.

 

[Steve R.]

Priviledge is not immunity.

It been historically recognized as a "privilege" of the President.

 

[jpl458]

Show me the law, or any ruling, or the part of the constitution that says a president is immune. There is none. That is why Trump is filing with the supreme court. If he wins, then Biden can do what ever he wants. Same for every new President. I am not talking about lawyer client priviledge. Trump claims he is immune because he was president. That is the only issue.

 

[Steve R.]

Show me the law, or any ruling, or the part of the constitution that says a president is immune. There is none. That is why Trump is filing with the supreme court. If he wins, then Biden can do what ever he wants. Same for every new President. I am not talking about lawyer client priviledge. Trump claims he is immune because he was president. That is the only issue.

Surprising that you have no concern that Biden is using abusive tactics that many not even be legal to cripple Trump. But you take the adversarial approach that Trump protecting himself is somehow wrong. Executive Privilege and Attorney Client privilege are well known legal constructs. Trump should not have to go to court, Biden is using the the power of the state to persecute Trump.

 

[jpl458]

Surprising that you have no concern that Biden is using abusive tactics that many not even be legal to cripple Trump. But you take the adversarial approach that Trump protecting himself is somehow wrong. Executive Privilege and Attorney Client privilege are well known legal constructs. Trump should not have to go to court, Biden is using the the power of the state to persecute Trump.

I ask again, show me any law, ruling or part of the Constitution that says any President is immune. It's about any President. I asked a specific question.

 

[Steve R.]

I ask again, show me any law, ruling or part of the Constitution that says any President is immune. It's about any President. I asked a specific question.

You should be condemning Biden for unlawfully forcing Trump to go to court to defend himself.

 

[jpl458]

Trump claims he is immune. Does the immunity only apply to Trump? You keep deflecting. Simple question: if the court grants immunity does that not also apply to any President, now and in the future? I am talking about this single issue. Just looking for a simple answer to a direct question.

 

[Steve R.]

Again, Biden is using the power of the state to persecute Trump. That immunity has historically applied to Presidents. Biden is changing the rules to single out Trump for persecution. Your question, once again is malformed since Presidents have historically had that immunity.

 

[Pat Hartman]

You are confusing what Trump is accused of doing which is inciting an insurrection and what Biden is actually doing which is abusing his power as president to have his "justice" department persecute Trump so Biden won't have to run against him in 2024.

Trump did not incite a riot, let alone an insurrection. Have you bothered to look at any of the tapes? Where can you find anyone inside the capitol being destructive in any way except the jerk who tried to steal Pelosi's podium and gavel. And EXACTLY how many guns were confiscated from the thousands who were arrested? The people who broke down the doors should be prosecuted. But when you allow BLM and Antifa to burn down police stations and occupy government buildings and not prosecute them, it is really hard for me to get behind years in prison for the people who did actual damage on Jan 6. Surely burning down a police station warrants some jail time. How about a Wendy's? Those people got community service. You do realize that for an actual insurrection, the perpetrators would almost certainly have brought guns instead of phones to take selfies. We are never going to know how many FBI agents were working the crowd inciting the riot outside the building. There is video of some of this but Ray Epps seems to be a Biden so he gets away with inciting a riot but Trump talks about marching "peacefully and patriotically" get accused of insurrection. GIVE ME A BREAK.

Regarding the Georgia case, which may be what the immunity is about. As the President of the United States, it was his duty to enforce the law. He was convinced (as are a lot of other people still) that there was corruption in the election. It was his duty to pursue that and try to determine the truth. That means, that he was doing his Presidential duty and if you decide you can prosecute a former President for something he did as part of his job, then it will never end. Every time a new party takes power, the previous administration will be persecuted for everything they did that the new administration doesn't like. There is a different between an action you don't like and one that is criminal or a violation of your oath of office. Biden is violating his oath of office with his open border policy. As the President, you don't make law. Congress makes law. The President enforces the law. He doesn't get to pick and choose which laws to enforce.

Let us not forget how Harris was contributing to the gofundme pages of actual rioters but she wasn't accused of anything.

 

[AccessBlaster]

If Trump won immunity through the court system that would set precedent therfore every president after the ruling would qualify, no?

 

[Pat Hartman]

If Trump won immunity through the court system that would set precedent therfore every president after the ruling would qualify, no?

The immunity has been assumed since 1776. It is the Democrats, in their TDS that are trying to persecute a former President because they hate him and don't want him to run again because they know he can beat Biden.

 

[Jon]

Trump claims he is immune. Does the immunity only apply to Trump? You keep deflecting. Simple question: if the court grants immunity does that not also apply to any President, now and in the future? I am talking about this single issue. Just looking for a simple answer to a direct question.

Should the President be immune from political prosecution and unfair trials? Maybe that is the real question that should be answered, since that is what this is really all about.

 

[Isaac]

Trump filed papers with the Supreme Court claiming he is immune from prosecution because he was President. If the court finds that he is immune, wouldn't that immunity pass to Biden and every other President?

Why would it automatically be the same? Isn't every legal claim and set of facts represent a unique combination?

 

[AccessBlaster]

The immunity has been assumed since 1776.

Like everything else Trump related that will be tested by the Supreme Court.

 

[moke123]

I have some immunity in my job. But that immunity only pertains to my actions while performing it. Trump is only immune from actions performed in relation to his official duties. Just like Clinton was not immune to lawsuits which fell outside his official duties. Campaigning for re-election is not part of the presidents official duties.


One thing I find amusing is that trump has no one, or at least no one who's competent, coordinating his legal strategies. In one case he's claiming immunity because he holds the office of president while in others he claims he is not an officer. He cant move Georgia to federal court like meadows tried because then he's admitting he is an officer. Another is that whatever he pleads in one case can then be used in others. I read that his attorney in the E. Jean Carrol case will be using the testimony in trumps fraud case where he claims his assets are way more than stated. The amount of punitive damages will based on trumps own pleadings. Stable Genius.

 

[AccessBlaster]

He'll be President or not by the time this is all settled. So the only thing we can now is wait for @jpl458 to start a new random thread, then we can start all over again.

 

[Pat Hartman]

One thing I find amusing is that trump has no one, or at least no one who's competent, coordinating his legal strategies.

You do realize that there is a group with big money behind them who are persecuting any lawyers who work for Trump? He's lucky to get any representation.

It is disturbing to me that you are always so happy about how Trump is being persecuted and do not see this as a breakdown of our legal system because you think the evil orange man deserves it. This double standard is going to be the death of the country.