Happy 4th!

[ColinEssex]

Happy Birthday America - saviour of the Christian values in the new, old and emerging worlds.

I had to laugh at that. Since when has America's actions got anything to do with Christian values? The value of oil - yes definately.

Do you really think America cares for anyone except the USA?

Col

 

[pono1]

Do you really think America cares for anyone except the USA?

On bitingly cold winter nights we look fondly upon Chile.

 

[ColinEssex]

I know that on the odd occasion my comments about the USA are less than enthusiastic, but I think the US has done quite alot to help the world.

It is possible, if still under British rule, such innovations may have been stifled. Yet on the other hand most colonies do tend to do their own thing, they are not necessarily directly governed from Westminster.

Many still like to have the "British" way of life, but these tend to be smaller colonies.

The class system does still exist in the UK - sometimes a little too much for my liking (House of Lords for one), but does the class system stop innovation?

The north / south divide is also a problem. It is difficult to "get on" in the north where department stores still have a tin bath section. Traditionally, the working class north has been the home of the mines, shipbuilding and most industrial development. In the south we have the money and the education.

Anyway, the USA? Yes, I remember my Mother first using a Teflon frying pan to cook eggs, it was incredible how they didn't stick, it was a miracle. So, keep going USA, you have the resourses and throw money to develop new drugs and many other things.

Col

 

[Brianwarnock]

The class system does still exist in the UK - sometimes a little too much for my liking (House of Lords for one), but does the class system stop innovation?

And new Labour has made it worse by stuffing the house with people beholden to the new regime, We all thought we were going to get an elected second house.

The north / south divide is also a problem. It is difficult to "get on" in the north where department stores still have a tin bath section. Traditionally, the working class north has been the home of the mines, shipbuilding and most industrial development.

I.E. we create the wealth

In the south we have the money
Col

Thieving B*$%*&ds steal it from us.

Brian

 

[ColinEssex]

I agree. The redistribution of wealth is very difficult.

I get the impression that "the North" is the equivalent to GWB's attitude to New Orleans. As you say, money is taken but little returned in regeneration.

Living in the rich south, I find it difficult to imagine what it must be like using an outside toilet in midwinter. Plus, the streets appear to be so violent with jobless people virtually scrounging a living.

Col

 

[Brianwarnock]

Living in the rich south, I find it difficult to imagine what it must be like using an outside toilet in midwinter. Col

You get used to it and the midden behind is great for the veg plot.

Brian

 

[ColinEssex]

You get used to it and the midden behind is great for the veg plot.

Brian

It all sounds a bit middle ages to me. It must be awful.

Col

 

[TessB]

You get used to it and the midden behind is great for the veg plot.

Brian

Surely you must be joking.
Seriously, people still use outhouses in parts of the UK???

 

[ColinEssex]

Surely you must be joking.
Seriously, people still use outhouses in parts of the UK???

Only in the North. Some places up there haven't even got electricity or telephones yet.

Col

 

[Brianwarnock]

Surely you must be joking.
Seriously, people still use outhouses in parts of the UK???

Sure I'm joking as is Col,I hope, if he isn't then its time he travelled the country, but I think this was just a bit of harmless banter between us so don't worry Tess we do have modern plumbing all over the UK.
To prove it I attach a pic of our bathroom, actually no bath, before we personalised it with plants etc.

Brian

 

[ColinEssex]

I am joking Tess. It's only in parts of Scotland they are still in the dark ages with no electricity or phones.

Brian's outside bathroom looks very nice.

Col

 

[statsman]

This is debatable. The Civil War was not fought over slavery. It was about whether states had the right to succeed from the Union. When Lincoln ran for president, his platform was preservation of the Union. When states started to succeed, he had to take up arms. The emancipation proclamation was a strategic military move. It was not about letting the slaves be free, it was about trying to win the war.

The US Civil War had many causes. Those you stated in addition to the polarizaton of the country (rural and agrian south vs. an increasingly industrialized and urban north). Historians agree however that if slavery had not existed, the civil war would probably not have occured.

One of the major factors was James Buchanan, the president before Lincoln who simply refused to do anything about succession. He even declined to remove the arms from the federal arsenals in the south, thus arming the Union's future enemies.

I don't necessarily think so. The British left us alone for almost 200 years. Then all of a sudden, after the French and Indian War, the British needed to raise revenue. After being left alone fending for ourselves, I don't think it is surprising the Americans did not stand for taxes from a country 2000 miles away.

The colonial/British victory in the Seven Years War (the last of the F&I wars) which included the capture of Quebec made most of North America British and therefore became a major reason for the revolution.

The French & Indian wars required a large standing British Army in America. With end of the French and Indian Wars, the need for that army no longer existed as well as the reason for the taxes to support it. A lot of Americans felt that this large army was more an occupying force than a protective one.

-----------------------------------------------
Traditionally, a Canadian is an American who rejected the Revolution - Northrope Frye.

 

[TessB]

Oh! I am so relieved! (no pun intended)
The lav looks so chic.
I was surprised to see the vulgarities of the toilet so nicely hidden.
In America the tanks are normally exposed, not as "built in" of a feeling.
Is this the normal fashion of the lav in the U.K. or is this a new design?

Oumahexi,
I've just finished the book within the past hour or so and was happy with the ending. I was, even with ten pages left, expecting some sort of misfortune to come between Darcy and Elizabeth, possibly of Lady Catherine's doing. I wonder if all of Austen's works end thusly?

As I had alluded to before, I so very much enjoyed the movie version of Sense and Sensibility, and there are similarities in this story. It is interesting to me how I am affected by the societal rules of the day. Normally, I eschew "appearances" and am more inclined to be "honest". I find the laws of "high society" to be confining and encouraging falsehoods and distance of relationships. However, I find myself, in understanding Austen's times, appreciating civility as more than mere "societal rules." The rules of civility do result in more respect being granted to all concerned as it seems to be a shame to display any disrespect, regardless of the degree to which personal esteem is truly held.

I suppose, in a nutshell, what I am saying is, "It's nice to be nice" is a long held belief of mine. And I do appreciate that adherence to that societal rule being a mark of honor. And so my question is, today, can we be honest and also always be respectful? And if given the choice, would we rather to have our opinions heard under the guise of honesty, or would it be more esteemed to be respectful and hold our own opinions to be worthy even though they are not always openly shared?

I promise to revert to my old ways of speech soon enough, and not to be so verbose. As soon as the influence of classic literature wears off, I shall be back to normal. I may even use the word "Y'all" in order to comfort.

 

[ajetrumpet]

Discuss.

Col

Is that an ORDER?

 

[oumahexi]

I wonder if all of Austen's works end thusly?

Sadly even Dickens had nothing but happy endings. I think it was a Victorian trend. Victoria herself being an incurable romanitic.

As I had alluded to before, I so very much enjoyed the movie version of Sense and Sensibility, and there are similarities in this story. It is interesting to me how I am affected by the societal rules of the day. Normally, I eschew "appearances" and am more inclined to be "honest". I find the laws of "high society" to be confining and encouraging falsehoods and distance of relationships. However, I find myself, in understanding Austen's times, appreciating civility as more than mere "societal rules." The rules of civility do result in more respect being granted to all concerned as it seems to be a shame to display any disrespect, regardless of the degree to which personal esteem is truly held.

Victorian society was somewhat warped. As Victoria had these extreme principles she expected her subjects to follow suit. This led to the flourishment of ***** houses etc as the rich could no longer flaunt their exploits.

What the Austins will never touch upon is the diversity between "high society" and their servants, there was little difference between the way the servants were treated and the way slaves had been treated in the past, there was a difference, but a tiny one. I suggest you read some of Catherine Cookson's books, that'll de-Austin you

And so my question is, today, can we be honest and also always be respectful?

with empathy it is absolutely possible, unfortunately we lose our ability to empathise with others as we grow up, it's a shame really.

I promise to revert to my old ways of speech soon enough, and not to be so verbose. As soon as the influence of classic literature wears off, I shall be back to normal. I may even use the word "Y'all" in order to comfort.

I'll be relieved to see that lol.

By the way, don't you listen to Colin about the outside toilets in Scotland, the only places I've ever visited in Scotland where the toilets were outside were air shows. On the other hand, last time I visited my cousin in Yorkshire he had an outside toilet, and that was only a few years back...

 

[Brianwarnock]

.

The colonial/British victory in the Seven Years War (the last of the F&I wars) which included the capture of Quebec made most of North America British and therefore became a major reason for the revolution.

The French & Indian wars required a large standing British Army in America. With end of the French and Indian Wars, the need for that army no longer existed as well as the reason for the taxes to support it. A lot of Americans felt that this large army was more an occupying force than a protective one.

This is so true, as soon as the colonies no longer needed the protection of the British, their leaders decided to grab power for themselves, which was really what the revolution was about, and to be fair to the Americans this does come across quite well at the scenarios played out at Williamsburg.

Brian

 

[speakers_86]

To prove it I attach a pic of our bathroom, actually no bath, before we personalised it with plants etc.

Brian

It's weird how the toilet is built into the vanity. I have never seen that stateside. It is also different to me how the sink is bigger than the counter.




@statsman-nicely said.

 

[ColinEssex]

Is that an ORDER?

Yes. It's the way the English phrase the questions in school exams.

Col

 

[statsman]

Yes. It's the way the English phrase the questions in school exams.

Col

You went to school?

 

[statsman]

This is so true, as soon as the colonies no longer needed the protection of the British, their leaders decided to grab power for themselves, which was really what the revolution was about, and to be fair to the Americans this does come across quite well at the scenarios played out at Williamsburg.

Brian

The decision to leave the Army in America in spite of the fact it was no longer required was made by King George against the advice of his ministers.

The decision to levy new taxes to pay for this army was made by King George despite the fact that only Parliament could levy taxes.

In no way should you assume that all Americans or their leaders were in favour of the Revolution. Less than 50% thought it was a good idea. When the rebels won, large numbers of Americans left for Canada and other places.

As I stated earlier, the Revolution was a very avoidable conflict.