Locherbie RIP

[oumahexi]

Ouma, I'm amazed you are so annoyed about this. Pan Am 103 was brought down as a direct reaction to the Americans blowing an Iranian jet out of the sky (as Paul said)

The Americans who shot that aircraft down did not deny it. They thought it was a Tomcat (F15). I believe them. Why? Because firstly I couldn't see the American government sanctioning an attack on a civil airline and secondly if you look at the amount of "friendly kills" the Americans chalk up in war time why wouldn't you believe them?

As I say, the Americans never denied it, at least they had the guts to stand up and admit it. Terrorists don't. Have you ever lived in a country wraught by terrorism? They are the scurge of the earth, not only do the instil fear into those they terrorise but they turn nation against nation needlessly. I'm sure you must have known someone in the 70s/80s who hated the Irish just because of the IRA?

It's called tit-for-tat that's the way things are done.

Then at least have the guts to stand up and say so, don't hide behind your chequered scarf tugging at your skirts pretending you didn't see anything.

Of course the bloke is a hero, he's served 9 years for something he didn't do. A bit like most of the prisoners in Guantanamo held and tortured by the Americans

What's the difference between a hero and a martyr? The same government he was so keen to run home to the minute the grim reaper started knocking at his door is the self same one that handed him over to the UK in the first place.

BTW, did you see the bits of the plane in a scrapyard in Lincolnshire? I wonder how much some of those bits will go for on Ebay.

Col

I'm sure they'll end up as "art" in some Middle Eastern gallery. I actually seen the scrappage the day after it happened, it was not a pretty site.

 

[ColinEssex]

Ouma - I am not going to argue with you. You seem to be a bit more closer to the action than I.

What I will say though, is I am sure that ever since that plane went down, there are negotiations, deals and promises made that we will never know about behind the scenes. Obviously, it has to do with the resources in Libya, BP and Shell and many UK companies are earning alot from Libya right now.

Like it or not - that's the way things work, and that keeps the oil flowing.

Col

 

[ColinEssex]

Obviously, if you spelt Lockerbie correctly it would add more creedence to your case

Col

 

[Rich]

You know what? It really wasn't that important to me this time last week because I didn't believe that they would actually go through with it. Nor did I believe that the Libyians would react the way they did. My reaction is directly linked to their reaction to the Scottish Governments action.

I have to say it was either incredibly stupid or naive of those in power here to believe that the Libyans would reciprocate with any sense of decency

 

[dan-cat]

I'm left siding with Ouma on this one.

The entire scenario leaves

a) The Scottish judicial system looking inadequate for apparently convicting an innocent man.

b) No accountability for this act of terrorism as it seems to be ok to release a convicted murderer because he probably didn't do it anyway.

c) The strong suggestion that certain Middle Eastern states are still embracing terrorist policies and insist on flying in the face of respectable diplomacy.

 

[oumahexi]

Lockerbie RIP

Obviously, if you spelt Lockerbie correctly it would add more creedence to your case

Col

Thanks Dad, I'll try and remember to put my clever hat on next time I'm upset

 

[Rich]

I'm left siding with Ouma on this one.

The entire scenario leaves

a) The Scottish judicial system looking inadequate for apparently convicting an innocent man.

b) No accountability for this act of terrorism as it seems to be ok to release a convicted murderer because he probably didn't do it anyway.

c) The strong suggestion that certain Middle Eastern states are still embracing terrorist policies and insist on flying in the face of respectable diplomacy.

Your scenarios obviously suggest that if he were guilty then the American system of justice ie revenge, should have been applied

 

[statsman]

With the arrival on the scene of DNA evidence, a great many people around the world who were convicted of crimes have been freed. Seems they hadn't done it after all.

Yet another arguement for the abolition of capital punishment.

 

[ColinEssex]

Yet another arguement for the abolition of capital punishment.

If the authorities are able to pinpoint exactly who did a serious crime through DNA evidence, then maybe capital punishment should be brought back.

Society is too lax on punishment of crime.

Col

 

[oumahexi]

If the authorities are able to pinpoint exactly who did a serious crime through DNA evidence, then maybe capital punishment should be brought back.

Society is too lax on punishment of crime.

Col

Ha! I knew there had to be something we'd agree on. Let me know when the job is advertised

 

[oumahexi]

Your scenarios obviously suggest that if he were guilty then the American system of justice ie revenge, should have been applied

Not in the least. Let's subject them to the Middle Eastern system of justice, ie revenge

 

[Rich]

Not in the least. Let's subject them to the Middle Eastern system of justice, ie revenge

I thought we were supposed to be better than that

 

[namliam]

The reaction to his return to Lybia was an out and out acknowledgement that their people agree with the Locherbie bombing, regardless of whether the right man was imprisoned.

Wake up and smell the coffee, remember the images of party-ing people in Kabul and the lot after the 9/11 plane bombing???

*ugh*
I am sure that there are people out there who are Moslim and do not agree with this, but for some reason a lot of people seem to agree...
Worse, it has been researched here in the NL, that something like 60+% off all people of Marocan/African or Turkish descendancy would prefer to go back to their own country because of the "corrupted" freedom that is our Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion.

Meanwhile these same groups of citizens in comparative % make up the larger part of the prison population, even while for said crimes in their home country there would be potentially the Death Penalty and worse, their own religion "do unto others as you would have them do onto you", etc etc. Bla bla bla...

I do not want to come across as a biggit and I most certainly am not, these are bare facts that anyone can look up.

What is worse even IMNSHO, some even blame the dutch "natives" for corrupting the young Moslims and "saducing" them into commiting crimes (killing/drug trafficing/ etc...)

One of my best friends is a Turk with his own business and he is the perfect example of a "dutch moslim" on a lot of this we have regular discussions, some of this he thinks I am a bit to far, but for most of it he *FREAKING AGREES*

Wake up and smell the coffee, there are millions of people out there stuck in the middle ages. Thinking if you have something I want, I will just take... or make you give it to me. We westerners have had our share of "black times" remember the Crusades/slavery etc... The sad truth of things is that a lot of the Moslim population is still stuck in "our" bad times (up-to couple of hundred years ago). Big difference, instead of riding a horse or flogging a whip, they control big things like guns, explosives, cars, explosive cars, planes and even nukes!

"All" we need to do is:
1) All convert to Moslim
or
2) Not convert and hope "they" catch up soon enough before we all go to hell and back
or
3) Some (small) miracle happens and they catch up fast, realizing that things like 9/11 instead of making things "better" in their eyes. Will only make things WORSE.

 

[oumahexi]

I thought we were supposed to be better than that

You might be, but I'm obviously not

 

[oumahexi]

"All" we need to do is:
1) All convert to Moslim

No thank you, religion, it seems, is the route of all evil.

or
2) Not convert and hope "they" catch up soon enough before we all go to hell and back

Too late

or
3) Some (small) miracle happens and they catch up fast, realizing that things like 9/11 instead of making things "better" in their eyes. Will only make things WORSE.

Not going to happen. More and more of them are becoming more obsessive.

Sadly, I did hear that before the Victorians took their "values" to the Middle East, they were actually quite laid back and that Islam was based on the equality of men and women. Naturally, that was on a documentary and I haven't been able to find any evidence to substantiate their claims, pity really, we might have been able to speak some sense into them.

BTW, I like to think I'm not a biggot either, I like to think I am tolerant, but this whole scenario just smacks of 1930s Germany to me, AND Nostradamus did predict that the third world war would start in the East, AND the book of revelations does predict that the four horsemen will rise from the East. In the mean time, those of us in the west instist on burying our heads in the sand and quoting Political Correctness.

 

[Rich]

You might be, but I'm obviously not

I know you are really, when you think about it

 

[oumahexi]

I know you are really, when you think about it

Don't be starting nasty rumours now.

 

[Rich]

Don't be starting nasty rumours now.

You don't live in Glasgow do you?

 

[ColinEssex]

One by-product of 11/9 though, is that it woke up the Americans to the fact that terrorism actually does exist.

Previously they had only funded it. Money to the IRA for guns, and arming the Taliban against the Russians are just two examples. The Yanks used to fight their wars by proxy, now they are a little more involved, almost to the point of getting the area right in which to fight terrorism. They may work that out in due course.

Col

 

[dan-cat]

Your scenarios obviously suggest that if he were guilty then the American system of justice ie revenge, should have been applied

Not at all. I was responding to the obvious suggestions that Ouma should be pacified because the convicted probably didnt do it anyway. I don't see how Ouma should be soothed by the argument that their judicial system knowingly accepted a 'patsy' who has now been released for 'oil'.

These are the scenarios put forward by others to which I am responding.