Atheists and theists are the same.

[laxster]

But surely you should only accept what is demonstrably true.

Nobody in this world can prove there is a God.

Well, no one can empirically prove there's a God anyhow. I have witnessed things, had amazing experiences, and have felt God's hand guiding me along. My perception is that after many things that have occured in my life that there is a God.

I don't think we should only accept what is demonstrably true, but to keep our minds open to all possibilities that exist on the infinite spectrum of ideas. I wouldn't necessarily discount something unless it's demonstrably false, or morally evil.

I haven't. That's my point. As a christian it is your duty to spread the gospel. If you are following the teachings of christianity you must have a duty to try to save people.

It is our duty to spread the Good News, yes. But spreading the good news isn't done through force. Jesus never forced anyone to follow him. By being Christian, if I could boil it down, I would say I am simply trying to lead the kind of life that Jesus taught was possible. I am convinced that being generous is a better way to live. I am convinced that forgiveness is a better way to live. I am convinced that having compassion is a better way to live. I am convinced that listening to the wisdom of others is a better way to live. I am convinced being honest is a better way to live.

I have found over time trying to lead the life Jesus taught was possible, that something deeper was going on. The reason I am convinced by all the things above is because they are all rooted in profound truths about how the world actually is, and I was more in sync with the universe at its deepest levels.

After all, Jesus intention was (and is!) to call people in tune with reality. So despite what some on this board have been jabbering about, being a Christian following Jesus is not about religion, but about living rightly.

 

[Thales750]

No twisting necessary, you do that all yourself. I might suggest taking more time in composing your posts, maybe you'll be more able to clearly state what you're trying to get across.



Meaning you want other people to tell you their opinions? You want to have an informed view of the world? Therefore; you care what other people think? Am I understanding you correctly?



I quoted from that post, so how could I have ignored it? If you mean I didn't reply to your specific sentence about Stalin, I did not see how it connected with anything I was trying to say, and thus felt no need to respond.

All you care about is being clever. I hope it brings you hapiness.

 

[Rabbie]

It is our duty to spread the Good News, yes. But spreading the good news isn't done through force. Jesus never forced anyone to follow him. By being Christian, if I could boil it down, I would say I am simply trying to lead the kind of life that Jesus taught was possible. I am convinced that being generous is a better way to live. I am convinced that forgiveness is a better way to live. I am convinced that having compassion is a better way to live. I am convinced that listening to the wisdom of others is a better way to live. I am convinced being honest is a better way to live.

I have found over time trying to lead the life Jesus taught was possible, that something deeper was going on. The reason I am convinced by all the things above is because they are all rooted in profound truths about how the world actually is, and I was more in sync with the universe at its deepest levels.

After all, Jesus intention was (and is!) to call people in tune with reality. So despite what some on this board have been jabbering about, being a Christian following Jesus is not about religion, but about living rightly.
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My point was to highlight the fact that Thales should have been trying to persuade his atheist friends of the truth of his beliefs - not by force instead of his claiming virtue in not doing so.

I think also that you need to realise that people like me also live honest lives because we believe in looking after our fellow men and women. "Do as you would be done by" is my motto. I would agree entirely with your list of how you think we should behave except for your beliefs in a supernatural. I think everything is capable of being explained by Science in time.
Your last paragraph seems to be slightly contrary to orthodox christian theology where it seems a necessary condition for redemption and entry to heaven is belief in God. Living rightly seems to be less important provided you confess your sins. The bibles suggests you can go round this loop seventy times seven.

Believe me there are times when I envy you your belief but I am not prepared to believe in something tha I can see no evidence for. I have to be honest to myself and I have come reluctantly but definitely to the conclusion that although I agree with Jesus' moral teachings and cannot in sincerity accept his claims to be the son of god.

 

[Vassago]

My point was to highlight the fact that Thales should have been trying to persuade his atheist friends of the truth of his beliefs - not by force instead of his claiming virtue in not doing so.

I think also that you need to realise that people like me also live honest lives because we believe in looking after our fellow men and women. "Do as you would be done by" is my motto. I would agree entirely with your list of how you think we should behave except for your beliefs in a supernatural. I think everything is capable of being explained by Science in time.
Your last paragraph seems to be slightly contrary to orthodox christian theology where it seems a necessary condition for redemption and entry to heaven is belief in God. Living rightly seems to be less important provided you confess your sins. The bibles suggests you can go round this loop seventy times seven.

Believe me there are times when I envy you your belief but I am not prepared to believe in something tha I can see no evidence for. I have to be honest to myself and I have come reluctantly but definitely to the conclusion that although I agree with Jesus' moral teachings and cannot in sincerity accept his claims to be the son of god.

Agreed!

 

[Rich]

I have witnessed things, had amazing experiences, and have felt God's hand guiding me along. My perception is that after many things that have occured in my life that there is a God.

Well my experiences and battles against adversity just re-inforced my perception that there is no such thing as God, apart from the help and support of close family, inner strength and the will to survive is what gets one through life

 

[Adam Caramon]

Believe me there are times when I envy you your belief but I am not prepared to believe in something tha I can see no evidence for.

Yes, many of us did that when we were children with Santa Claus. I remember seeing a comedian say once before that wouldn't it be funny if God was the same? Parents used God to get the children to act approproately, have good morals, etc.

Then somewhere along the line they forgot to do the reveal where they tell the kids that God isn't real but instead a tool to teach people good values.

I could see it as being true.

 

[Rabbie]

Yes, many of us did that when we were children with Santa Claus. I remember seeing a comedian say once before that wouldn't it be funny if God was the same? Parents used God to get the children to act approproately, have good morals, etc.

Then somewhere along the line they forgot to do the reveal where they tell the kids that God isn't real but instead a tool to teach people good values.

I could see it as being true.

Yes, It's called growing up - putting away childish things.

 

[Thales750]

IMHO it is not helpful or constructive in any discussion of a controversial issue to describe people who take the opposite view as idiots so I can see why you received the warning.

If I were so described I would take it as a sign that I had won the argument

I never said you were stupid but I must admit to thhinking that perhaps I should revise that opinion . Not because of your beliefs but because of your way of debating.

Religion sure is a powerful force.

 

[Rabbie]

Religion sure is a powerful force.

If you read my posts you quote from properly you will see that I denigrated the use of expressions such as "idiot" just to describe someone who disagreed with my point of view. I did however say It could be used where the person concerned is providing evidence for that conclusion. Please show where I have called you stupid or apologise for your behavour.

I agree wih you that religion is a powerful force usually for not very good things. However you are incorrect in calling a lack of belief a religion. A religion to my mind involves people gatherin together in a common belief. You don't see most atheists gathering in a special building to celebrate atheism.

Now star putting your point of view in a rational and honest way or withdraw from this discussion

 

[Adam Caramon]

Now star putting your point of view in a rational and honest way or withdraw from this discussion

I think he withdrew from the discussion part long ago. Now he's just in denial mode.

 

[Mike375]

You don't see most atheists gathering in a special building to celebrate atheism.

http://www.atheistconvention.org.au/

 

[Rabbie]

http://www.atheistconvention.org.au/

Read my post. I didn't say no atheists I said MOST atheists. I doubt if even 30% of australian atheists attended.

 

[Thales750]

I think he withdrew from the discussion part long ago. Now he's just in denial mode.

LOL that's funny.

 

[Thales750]

Now star putting your point of view in a rational and honest way or withdraw from this discussion

Indeed, like Galileo, Copernicus, and others before me.
Heretics all.

 

[Rich]

Indeed, like Galileo, Copernicus, and others before me.

You place yourself on the same level, my god!

 

[Mike375]

Read my post. I didn't say no atheists I said MOST atheists. I doubt if even 30% of australian atheists attended.

It is in March

But it would be a lot less than 30%. Not to different to Christians and the Church.

I posted that link of the seminar on an Australian guns/hunting forum where there are a lot of atheists, although their atheism is comparable to the religion of the average Christian. I got a 100% conversion because all the Australian speakers are the leading left wingers in Australia. These blokes are completely accepting of sex between man and animal and all that sort of stuff.

 

[Thales750]

You place yourself on the same level, my god!

Rich, you don't know anything about me or what I believe in. And you certainly are not qualified to make passing judgments about my IQ or my capabilities.

But I forgive you anyway.

 

[Adam Caramon]

Rich, you don't know anything about me or what I believe in. And you certainly are not qualified to make passing judgments about my IQ or my capabilities.

I don't know. According to this one guy on this forum:

In order to see yourself you must look to see how you are perceived.

Which if taken at face value means everyone is qualified to pass judgment about your IQ or capabilities. But that's just old clever me reading what you write and trying to make sense of it.

 

[Thales750]

I don't know. According to this one guy on this forum:



Which if taken at face value means everyone is qualified to pass judgment about your IQ or capabilities. But that's just old clever me reading what you write and trying to make sense of it.

Well you certainly put a lot of credence in cleverness.
But cleverness is a rather poor substitute for accurate self evaluation.
You are joining Rich in this irrelevant attack because I have sided with the Christians, the Jews, and the Muslims, in that silly debate about whether you are a religious man. And even now you continue to prove how important to you it is, your religious fanaticism.

 

[Adam Caramon]

You are joining Rich in this irrelevant attack because I have sided with the Christians, the Jews, and the Muslims, in that silly debate about whether you are a religious man.

lol. Now you're on the side of all the major religions of the world? If I'm not mistaken, this is a debate about if atheism is a religion. I highly doubt all Christians, Jews, and Muslims agree with you.

And even now you continue to prove how important to you it is, your religious fanaticism.

I'd like to respond to this, but I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. How important to me what is?

Do you often have difficulties with people being able to comprehend you? Not meaning this as an attack, but I've noticed your posts are often very confusing. Might be an issue of what you're thinking doesn't accurately get transcribed to paper (or electronic post, as the case may be).