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hooks

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The_Doc_Man said:
As to the comment regarding Jimmy Smith originating "the Hammond Sound" - try ETHEL Smith, from 30 years earlier. She was innovative and had fingering at least as good as Jimmy Smith - but a different genre. I think the most famous of her recordings were "Nola" and "Tico Tico" - very up-tempo, quite lively, and very precise in her own way. She even wrote a book for organists who needed extra help with pedals - and she added a chapter for women organists who played in heels!

I actually didn't care for Jimmy Smith that much. He was all flash and no substance. Nothing but keyboard pyrotechnics, no coherence of melody. When he played "Misty" on one of his albums, it took him two full verses to get to the point at which the song was recognizable. There is "funky" and I don't question his funk level - but if you can't actually play a recognizable tune such as "Misty" so that it REMAINS recognizable even with improvization, you are missing your audience. Therefore, I would call him an artist but not as good an entertainer.


I figured that Jimmy Smith wasn't the originator of the "Hammond" sound. Thanks for letting me know about Ethel Smith. There must be something about organs and the last name 'Smith'.

It sounds to me that you are a jazz purest. Nothing wrong with that, we just disagree on style. I think that you are correct in saying that you are missing your audience if you don't get to the recognizable part of the song quickly but that also depends on your audience. I have tried playing gigs in front of a knowledgeable jazz crowd and i hated it. It wasn't fun for me at all. Thats why i always played funk/jazz in bars where people was having fun and not critiquing your every note. Of course i am not a hard core jazz player and also not a very good jazz player. lol

Hooks
 

The_Doc_Man

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Hooks - hard-core jazz is a misnomer because jazz has more than one sub-genre and they are different. Multi-core, so to speak. "Cool jazz" and "Chicago hot" and "Dixieland" and "Fusion" are all radically different. Along with other varietals.

No, I'm not a purist, just knowledgeable about various styles. I listen to anything except vicious/angry rap, ultra-hard/super-heavy metal, and howlin' dawg country laments. Hell, I even listen to bagpipe and oompah-band music if it is done well.

My wife likes Scottish and Irish pipes for some reason. When she drives her car with the music playing loud, you couldn't really call her car a "boom box on wheels" but you might call it a "screech box." (Excuse me, skirl box.) Because of a little property of sound and how well it carries, her ordinary car speaker system can still cut through a 'hood boom box with thudding bass. High pitches carry FOREVER - and usually confuse the hell out of the boom-box drivers, too. But Linda just smiles sweetly as she drives on past. Gotta love it.

When I play jazz, I like cool, Dixieland, and fusion, but have fewer references for Chicago Hot. Not that I don't like it, it is just harder to find when you live in N'Awlins, one of the hot spots for Dixieland jazz still extant in the USA.

Don't get me wrong - I respect Jimmy Smith's ability, but his style is SO far out there that it is beyond me, and I have a widely varied palate. Keith Emerson by contrast has at least as much talent but a wider technical range. Said another way, Keith E can play straight or pyrotechnical but Jimmy S can only play pyrotechnical - or at least I have never seen/heard evidence to the contrary. Which is why I prefer Keith Emerson. Of course, each to his own tastes.
 

hooks

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The_Doc_Man said:
Hooks - hard-core jazz is a misnomer because jazz has more than one sub-genre and they are different. Multi-core, so to speak. "Cool jazz" and "Chicago hot" and "Dixieland" and "Fusion" are all radically different. Along with other varietals.

I was just using the word hard-core as someone who plays jazz only, you know a jazz snob that thinks everyone who doesn't like jazz is retarded. I just meant that i can play a little jazz and most of what i play isn't very good. I call it cheesy jazz.

Anyway i have a question for ya. I have heard the jazz style that my band played called 'Acid Jazz' 'Cool Jazz' and 'Fusion'. I was always confused on what style it was. What style of jazz would you call Grant Green? We played a lot of his songs and i believe we were very close to his style. Maybe it is not considered jazz at all. I don't know.

Thanks
Hooks
 
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Ron_dK

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hooks said:
I have heard the jazz style that my band played called 'Acid Jazz' 'Cool Jazz' and 'Fusion'.

Are you playing your own music or do you copy from existing bands/musicians.
A couple of years ago, I played in a band doing all kind of fusion stuff varying from Steps Ahead to modified Zappa songs. Really fun to do.
Acid jazz doesn't appeal to me, I figure it much to static and it's not very open for improvising.

hooks said:
What style of jazz would you call Grant Green?

Hardbop or Bebop.

Bebop is a sort of jazz improvisation based on harmonic structure rather than melody. Hardbop is bebop combined with influences from blues or gospel. ;)
 

hooks

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Well some of the stuff we played was original and some of it was copied. We would start the song with the melody then from there who knows where it would end up.

I think Hardbop would be a good description of our music. We also played blues and cheesey southern rock which i hated. Hell we played bluegrass for one whole set just because a guy in the crowd brought his banjo and wanted to play.
 

Ron_dK

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Cool, you also played the real book stuff ?
 

hooks

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rak said:
Cool, you also played the real book stuff ?

No i am not good enough for that stuff. lol. I tried that stuff before and never could quite get it. The only thing i was good at when it comes to jazz was the rythm guitar. I always hated doing solos when i had no clue what was going on. I could fake the rythm guitar though.

We really didn't play standards.
The Bass player and drummer played that stuff all of the time professionally but when i played with them we played easier stuff. They always wanted to play something different because they would get burnt out on jazz. We would usually play more bluesy and fun to play music or bar music.

Hooks
 

murphybridget

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I learned music theory and performance starting from age 6. Too many years ago. I started with the "piano accordian" which is different from the button accordian or concertina. I switched to trumpet at about 12 and switched to organ at 13. I played organ for many years thereafter.
I learned music theory and performance starting from age 6. Too many years ago. I started with the "piano accordian" which is different from the button accordian or concertina. I switched to trumpet at about 12 and switched to organ at 13. I played organ for many years thereafter.

Including playing on live TV in Birmingham AL USA, playing for fashion shows (same city), playing on Bourbon St. and on Tulane Ave. in New Orleans, and even recording a couple of singles at the same studio where Fats Domino cut his first albums. (Cosimo Studios in the N'Awlins French Quarter.)

I guess the highlight of my performing career was when I was in the backup band that covered the Sonny & Cher concert. Charlie Rich ("The Silver Fox") was the lead-in act. I had the pleasure of speaking to Mr. Rich at some length. He set me straight on music as a career. Which is why I stayed with computers and chemistry.

To summarize his advice: Unless you have a great deal of luck or an incredibly apt manager, you will spend years on the road, living out of a bus or a cheap motel room, never forming close relationships with anyone except your tour members, and never having a place to call home.

I played organ as a hobby or a side vocation since I was 13. The only reason I don't right know is that Hurricane Katrina drowned the instrument I had and at the moment I have other priorities to consider in home reconstruction. I'll get another instrument eventually, but right now I've got other fish to fry.

On the theme of pianos and electric keyboards, I tend to bang a lot on any touch-sensitive keyboard but I'm told that on electronics, I'm enjoyable as a performer.

That comment about "the piano player doesn't go home alone" - My wife and I met at a dance because my musical background helped me to become a good dancer. She was later fascinated by my educated fingers that could play other things than ordinary keyboards. But she liked my organ, too :D
Going to concertina from an accordion sounds very practical.
 

The_Doc_Man

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Considering that this thread paused a year after Hurricane Katrina took my console organ, now 19 years ago this August, I had forgotten about it. But of course, members into such things would recall that I did eventually find a replacement for the Technics F3. I now play a Technics F5. Looks the same, sounds mostly the same, but has a slight bit more versatility for the voicing - mostly in the form of a better switching network for internal voice selection, as in "which voice is on which keyboard."
 

jpl458

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Okay, so I just bought a $400 keyboard yesterday to force myself to finally learn piano. I've never played before, but after hours of work I have the first twenty seconds of the right hand score of Chopin's Nocturne Op.9-2 down pat. :rolleyes:

So tell me, does anyone here play piano? For how long? And what's your favorite piano piece?
I studied classical guitar for a number of years, right up to the point that I knew I would never be as good as I wanted to be. What I did learn was a bunch about music theory, but most of that was learned when I started playing other than classical music. My wife studied classical piano for years and was a great sight reader. But she was always struck with how I could play a song that I just heard on the radio. 2 things to get good at are Intervals ( the ability to identdify the distance between notes by ear, and be able to hear and identify chord changes.) The ear is a muscle, in effect, and the more you use it the stronger it gets. Chopan pieces all have chord changes. Read about the "Well tempered calviar", where Bach tempered scales. BTW, I still play everyday for an hour or so. Great therapy. I work up popular music pices on the classical guitar. Please excuse my rambling.
 

The_Doc_Man

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Please excuse my rambling.

Rambling about music is by far not the worst kind of rambling we have seen on this forum. Many of us have strong ties to music. Like me, who 70 years ago took up the piano-accordion (as opposed to a concertina-style or button accordion). Now rapidly approaching 76, I still play my keyboards at semi-regular intervals. I can appreciate the desire to make a little music now and then. And many others among us seriously appreciate music. It is a little-appreciated fact, but musicians and programmers frequently have the same mind set. It is not at all a surprise to note that a programmer is also a musician. After all, music notation is merely a type of programming for the fingers.
 

murphybridget

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It's no surprise that many people find fulfillment in both music and programming, as they can provide different avenues for expression and creativity. Thank you for sharing your perspective, and here's to many more years of making music and enjoying its magic!
 

murphybridget

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I studied classical guitar for a number of years, right up to the point that I knew I would never be as good as I wanted to be. What I did learn was a bunch about music theory, but most of that was learned when I started playing other than classical music. My wife studied classical piano for years and was a great sight reader. But she was always struck with how I could play a song that I just heard on the radio. 2 things to get good at are Intervals ( the ability to identdify the distance between notes by ear, and be able to hear and identify chord changes.) The ear is a muscle, in effect, and the more you use it the stronger it gets. Chopan pieces all have chord changes. Read about the "Well tempered calviar", where Bach tempered scales. BTW, I still play everyday for an hour or so. Great therapy. I work up popular music pices on the classical guitar. Please excuse my rambling.
Does chord have their part on classical guitar?
 

jpl458

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Does chord have their part on classical guitar?
Chords are not stressed as much in classical music, it is more necessary to know about them in popular music. But they are bit more relevant on the guitar. Art Tatum, a jazz piano player once said that he could reduce any song to 1 of 12 different chord changes, and the easiest set is the Blues. There are 2 set of the Blues. 8 Bar and 12 Bar, and in any key the chords would be 1,4,1,5,4,1, for the 8 bar set. In the key of C: 1 = C, 4 =F, 5 = G. Add the 3 Chord (Eminor), and the 6 Chord (AMinor) to the mix, and you will have covered 90% of any song you hear in the radio, either Hard Rock or ballads. (Note that they are all not in the Key of C.) For example, I just worked up My Heart will Follow, the Titanic theme by Celine Dione. First I learnred the chords and the melody will alway be in/through the chords. The sond starts in E major the modulates to F in the last chorus. But I use classical guitar technique to be able to play chords(mostly as arppegios) and fit the melody over those chords with no strumming. The answer to your original question is Yes, a bit more. Excuse my rambling.
 

murphybridget

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Chords are not stressed as much in classical music, it is more necessary to know about them in popular music. But they are bit more relevant on the guitar. Art Tatum, a jazz piano player once said that he could reduce any song to 1 of 12 different chord changes, and the easiest set is the Blues. There are 2 set of the Blues. 8 Bar and 12 Bar, and in any key the chords would be 1,4,1,5,4,1, for the 8 bar set. In the key of C: 1 = C, 4 =F, 5 = G. Add the 3 Chord (Eminor), and the 6 Chord (AMinor) to the mix, and you will have covered 90% of any song you hear in the radio, either Hard Rock or ballads. (Note that they are all not in the Key of C.) For example, I just worked up My Heart will Follow, the Titanic theme by Celine Dione. First I learnred the chords and the melody will alway be in/through the chords. The sond starts in E major the modulates to F in the last chorus. But I use classical guitar technique to be able to play chords(mostly as arppegios) and fit the melody over those chords with no strumming. The answer to your original question is Yes, a bit more. Excuse my rambling.
Indeed, while chords may not be as emphasized in classical music, they play a crucial role in popular music, especially on instruments like the guitar. This however is just my observation.
 

ColinEssex

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Indeed, while chords may not be as emphasized in classical music, they play a crucial role in popular music, especially on instruments like the guitar.
In a conventional band you usually have drums, bass guitar, rhythm guitar and lead guitar. The rhythm guitar is the chord instrument and the lead is more the melody - think Hank Marvin, The Shadows or the Ventures. I'm not much cop at chords so play lead. Incidentally, the bass guitar doesn't follow the drum beat, it can be a melody on its own, it compliments the drums otherwise it is boring. Listen to the bass line on The Beatles song 'Something' , a very complex bass line.
Col
 

NauticalGent

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Listen to the bass line on The Beatles song 'Something' , a very complex bass line.
Never listened to it with that intent...nicely done. I'm also embarrassed to say that until now, I never realized that McCartney played bass. I KNEW it wasn't Harrison and I was sure it wasn't Lennon either - I guess I never gave it much thought.
 

The_Doc_Man

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Want another fairly old case where the bass line is DEFINITELY not merely a direct component of the beat? Try this video for "Journey to the Center of My Mind" (with a young, almost unrecognizable Ted Nugent - with hair, lots of it). The bassist was Greg Arama (I think), with John Drake on vocals. The Amboy Dukes were a Chicago band that had a good hit. Turns out the USA band cribbed their name from a UK band of the same name. You can also look them up on Wikipedia which has a detailed history of the band.

 

jpl458

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Indeed, while chords may not be as emphasized in classical music, they play a crucial role in popular music, especially on instruments like the guitar. This however is just my observation.
But, when you see an arpeggio in classical music it is a broken chord where the notes are played either ascending or desceding. I mentioned that my wife was a great sight reader, but she coudent play anything unless the sheet music was in front of her. Classical music teaches you theory and technique. Playing in a good band is way more fun, and has a feeling of freedom about it. Someone in the band can call a tune the not everyone knows, but the caller can give a description buy calling the chords: "it's 1,6,2,5 with 1,4,5,1 bridge in B flat." Then you have the blocks and you can improvise something close to the melody when its your turn. But if you are starting out, scales are the things to practice. They tell you where everything is and are great for developing technique. The chords are made of notes in the scale. Example, in the key C the scale is cdefgabc. The C chord is c, e, and g. notes 1 3 and 5 of the scale. If you flat the the 3rd note, the cord become minor. Hope you don't mid me rambling on. Hope this make sense.
 

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