Pat Hartman has left the building

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Jon said:
And keep members safe too. There have been about 12,000 arrests in the UK during 2023 for breaking electronic communications laws, although they haven't broken it down into a number for social media posts.
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I'm not familiar with the dos and don'ts of this law, I'm not from there. Can you give an example what exactly was broken (social media/internet related)?
 
Seems a little bit like a book burning. A very sad day for all the people coming after us who want to learn how to build databases.
The person would have to be feeling really, I don't know, depressed to wantonly destroy an entire lifetime's work of evidence of their own value.
I may have been one of her most ardent dissenters, and probably the recipient of the bulk of her caustic diatribes.
And yet, I feel this is a great loss to have that much knowledge erased. I for one did not want this to end this way, I continuously held out hope that she would learn how to temper her responses, and even acknowledge the possibility that a single worldview is in no one's best interest, especially their own.
Pat, if you're reading this, for whatever part I may have played in this decision to eradicate all of that incredible body of knowledge, then I apologize. Although, I imagine if you are reading this you are probably thinking that I'm nowhere near important enough to have any influence on you, as it should be.
 
And while I respect Pat in certain areas, and in those certain areas quite highly, yet I will not be afraid to say it was an absolutely terrible and petty decision for her to demand that all of her posts be deleted. That's just childish and Jon didn't have to comply with it but he did so probably out of just not wanting to deal with retribution and whatever additional pettiness may have followed a refusal
 
It may be petty but she was the author the creator of what she wrote.
 
raziel3 said:
Can you give an example what exactly was broken (social media/internet related)?
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I will try to make this a factual summary.

In the Politics & Current Events section, a couple of threads got out of control discussing the Israel/Hamas situation, which is a strongly polarizing subject. Those two threads in P&CE got to the point that indirect insults were exchanged via inference and implication. Formal reports were filed using the site's Report feature. The site's Terms and Rules (see bottom line for link) were being stretched if not actually broken.

After the two threads got REALLY harsh, I posted notices asking for folks to calm things down. In consultation with Jon, I locked the two threads. However, Jon got a notice that someone had complained about something in one of the threads based on the new UK Online Safety Act. Such complaints must be addressed quickly as they can lead to fines and penalties that would wreck the forums. Jon removed the entire Politics & Current Events forum and notified us that it had become a sore spot.

Shortly after that, Pat posted in a thread in the Watercooler section and brought up the Israel/Hamas topic. I censored the thread - including Pat's post - with a reminder that it had become a toxic topic that was unsafe for the forum. Shortly thereafter, Pat chose to remove herself from the site and asked Jon to delete her posts - all 78,000 of them. Which he did.

That pretty much covers the "what happened" and some of the "why." It was Pat's decision to depart and take her posts with her. I think we would all prefer to leave the rest of this unpleasant situation behind us.
 
Thankfully Jon 'only' had 48000 posts of Pat's to delete.
Even so, this was by far the biggest single contribution of any AWF member over the years and does leave a big hole in many threads she contributed to, as well as the removal of entire threads that Pat started.
However, to repeat my earlier comment, the forum exchanges in recent days have felt far more positive and without the hostility that had become so prevalent in recent weeks / months.
 
I was blissfully unaware of ANY of this stuff. Of course, I only visited the Watercooler one time and the Politics forum never. I only use this forum for ACCESS stuff. Although Pat could be umm...well a little brisk at times she is an ACCESS purist like me. Design your table structure properly from the beginning and never ever try to use the product like a spreadsheet. I learned a lot of things from her over the years since I have been a member here. I know nothing about these new UK online rules, but I won't be violating any of them anyway since I keep my political opinions to myself. Even my own wife of 53 years does not know how I vote and I know nothing about how she votes either. I am sorry Pat left but wish her all the best.
 
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isladogs said:
Thankfully Jon 'only' had 48000 posts of Pat's to delete.
Even so, this was by far the biggest single contribution of any AWF member over the years and does leave a big hole in many threads she contributed to, as well as the removal of entire threads that Pat started.
However, to repeat my earlier comment, the forum exchanges in recent days have felt far more positive and without the hostility that had become so prevalent in recent weeks / months.
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There does seem to be a more understanding tone going around, hopefully everyone catches it and never gets cured :)
 
AccessBlaster said:
It may be petty but she was the author the creator of what she wrote.
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I have no expectation that when I make a post on the internet, I have any right to edit or delete the post. I'm giving that content to someone else at that point . if i were jon i don't think i would have removed them, but i can understand for sure not wanting any more problems. It will definitely screw up a bunch of threads that will no longer make any sense.

It's like building a home as a team of people, then deciding you want to quit, and demanding to withdraw the board you contributed to the foundation. I would have told the asker to go pound sand, but that's just me
 
AccessBlaster said:
Well, by all means give yourself a pat on the back.
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I know that sounded like I was congratulating myself but what it meant was that I didn't get any pleasure out of responding to her outrageous attacks and as a result of that I didn't pull the trigger as hard as I could have on quite a number of occasions.
I certainly did not take the high road, I just didn't take the lowest when I could have.
 
Thales750 said:
If you really want to know the truth, I think I did a pretty good job of showing restraints, over all.
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I actually tend to agree. You both lobbed the occasional insult but in your case it didn't come across as you were actually Angry - in a serious way.
In Pat's, it did. She was angry in a very serious way and couldn't take it any more as I mentioned earlier. I think seeing me leave the Trump Devotion cult sorta pushed her further over the edge of frustration. Not that I was ever really in the cult, I always thought, I'll take it day by day. Finally too many days came when I was like WTF
ya know, one too many WTF days can kill ya
 
Somewhat out of date - message count is about 800 down
 
I will say, though, that her devotion to Bridge has left me curious about it. I've read testimonials where people said stuff like "I had always heard of Bridge but never tried it, just learning now and it's the most fun I've had my whole life" etc. etc.

I just may have to learn and join a group
 
I'm sure it will take Google a while to catch up, if ever
 
Isaac said:
her devotion to Bridge has left me curious about it.
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Some years ago - on the order of 55-60 - I actually taught bridge at UNO as part of their adult community interests program. I even represented UNO in a regional bridge tournament. My partner in that tournament was one of my students. He was new to the game and made a few minor errors, but we still scored in the upper middle of the four-session competition.

During my college days, my best friend and I were bridge partners, playing in various sanctioned "club" games sponsored by local organizations and community centers. She and I were decent on offense (a.k.a. "declarer" play) but on defense, we were considered to be "sharks." When I graduated with my PhD, we drifted apart for political reasons. I was conservative, she was more liberal. Our lives went in different directions. Once the world of real work started, I stopped paying my dues to the American Contract Bridge League, the primary USA sponsoring organization. ACBL had some really great publications and I subscribed to the magazine for a little while until my mother's health turned for the worse. I decided I did not need any more distractions.

If you want to learn about bridge, there are many excellent books describing several styles of play. Not every book will have the approval, but if it is "ACBL approved" then it should be at least decent. I used the "Standard American" style, which is the most common style used by beginners. Although for me, sometimes it was "Stranded American" when I got stuck in the wrong contract.

To play bridge well, you need the ability to count to 13 several times per hand, you need to be able to reasonably deduce what cards your opponents hold based on their actions and bidding, and you need to be able to laugh when it all goes to :poop: - which sometimes it does, despite your best efforts. The strategies change depending on which variant you are playing - "party" bridge or one of several tournament variations. The "party" variation is most likely to be Standard American. In tournaments? Some of the variants will be hard to recognize as even being a part of the game of bridge.

Mechanically, the game is relatively simple. Strategically, not so simple. Programmers who can think logically during code debugging should be capable of the level of analysis required for bridge.
 
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