Transgenders in Olympics

[KitaYama]

The Olympics officially bans all transgenders from competing in female competitions.
I wonde if they cancel all the records made by them too.

Transgender women to be banned from all female Olympic events after 'scientific review’: Report

New policy expected early next year under IOC would end current guidelines allowing transgender athletes to compete with lowered testosterone levels to 'protect female category' - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

IOC moving toward ban on transgender athletes in women’s Olympic events

In the past, each Olympic sport’s international federation has been allowed to set its own rules on transgender inclusion.

www.nytimes.com

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I cannot say I'm surprised. I feel sorry for the trans athletes because while they aren't actually the gender they think they are, they ARE persons with feelings, desires, aspirations, etc. This will have to be very disappointing to them. It can hardly be anything else. I am glad, however, that the decision was deferred until a hard-science study was made to confirm the findings.

 

[Isaac]

The Olympics officially bans all transgenders from competing in female competitions

Is this the correct way to say it? If you are a transgender man (meaning you're actually a woman, but wishing to be a man), you can still compete in female competitions.

It always annoys me when people's/news articles' wording makes it sound like we are "Excluding all transgenders from sports".
They're NOT excluded - they can still play on the team as they were born.

 

[KitaYama]

Is this the correct way to say it? If you are a transgender man (meaning you're actually a woman, but wishing to be a man), you can still compete in female competitions.

It always annoys me when people's/news articles' wording makes it sound like we are "Excluding all transgenders from sports".
They're NOT excluded - they can still play on the team as they were born.

Here's my take:
Trans women (male at birth) who went through male puberty are likely not going to be eligible for female category in many sports, especially at elite level, under forthcoming IOC/federation rules. Because their body belongs to the stronger gender.

Trans men (female at birth) transitioning to male are generally eligible for the male category under existing frameworks, with fewer or no special restrictions. Because their body belongs to weaker gender.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I believe that if you wish to compete in a sport in the division that matches the gender assigned to you at birth, nobody would complain about that attempt. HOWEVER, if you have taken hormonal treatments, some of them may qualify as performance enhancing drugs, which would greatly complicate your eligibility. Other treatments would tend to REDUCE muscle mass, giving you a disadvantage against your "peers."

I'm going to step away from this for the reason that I think it is a fluid situation. We might do better to wait for the IOC to put something in writing. Until then, I don't want to know. But it does trigger a memory of a limerick related to this question...

A gay young lad from Khartoum
met a lesbian lass in her room.
They spent the night
in a terrible fight
over who would do what, and to whom.

 

[Isaac]

Here's my take:
Trans women (male at birth) who went through male puberty are likely not going to be eligible for female category in many sports, especially at elite level, under forthcoming IOC/federation rules. Because their body belongs to the stronger gender.

Trans men (female at birth) transitioning to male are generally eligible for the male category under existing frameworks, with fewer or no special restrictions. Because their body belongs to weaker gender.

That makes good sense, but I think the current rule is actually simpler.
But here we are on politics again, I'll bow out , as I have too many opinions on it

 

[DickyP]

...

A gay young lad from Khartoum
met a lesbian lass in her room.
They spent the night
in a terrible fight
over who would do what, and to whom.

Hadn't seen this since I left school (in 1967).

 

[Isaac]

I think all I get out of that is I now know how to pronounce Khartoum

 

[Vassago]

Gender isn't simply biological. There are many more women than you know that have XY chromosomes and are born biologically female. I've had friends that were. I'm not sure separating any sport by gender is the answer anymore.

What about weight class instead?

 

[Isaac]

Gender isn't simply biological. There are many more women than you know that have XY chromosomes and are born biologically female. I've had friends that were. I'm not sure separating any sport by gender is the answer anymore.

What about weight class instead?

I think your suggestion falls squarely in the realm of practical and helpful. I'm not sure that specifically is the answer, but I agree - something that recognizes the differences we are all aiming to recognize is a good thing. Going down that road, it seems the classification basis might need to be different for different sports, too..wherein each sport has physical aspects that are more or less important, including but perhaps not always limited to Weight

 

[Isaac]

So then why not just do away with gender categories and go unisex? I know of many women who can kick mens ass. Isn't equality what the feminists want?

Because nobody is interested in observing such a contest, it makes little sense

 

[Isaac]

Well, I don't want to force anyone into a compromising position regardless of their answer.
So I will break the ice by saying that some will argue that in general Negroids are considered physically stronger than the others.

Something tells me nobody will argue about that.

 

[Isaac]

there's fewer than a dozen in collegiate and professional sports combined

I believe that's untrue, I read stories every few weeks about one of them taking a trophy or prize of some kind. It's a leftwing myth designed to squelch conversation about the topic. I noticed you restricted your statement to, presumably, professional college and beyond - but still.

Okay, so what's the International Olympic Committee's official policy on allowing transgender women to compete in biological womens sports?

You may want to look it up - they just came out with a new one

 

[Vassago]

I think your suggestion falls squarely in the realm of practical and helpful. I'm not sure that specifically is the answer, but I agree - something that recognizes the differences we are all aiming to recognize is a good thing. Going down that road, it seems the classification basis might need to be different for different sports, too..wherein each sport has physical aspects that are more or less important, including but perhaps not always limited to Weight

As someone who has known women who could kick my ass, I agree. This could be a starting point for many sports as others are worked out. The weight class doesn't even need to be the same across sports either.

Wouldn't that also help solve for all this argument about biological men being "physically bigger" that is always popping up? It would force people to compete against people their own size. Obviously, it's not always true, but I think it would at least make that argument moot. We even typically have weight classes in men's sports already for this very reason. So lean into it and do away with gender separation entirely.

There has to be a solution that respects someone's gender choice and keeps people safe.

I suspect certain crowds will never be pleased because it's not the act of trans people in sports that offends them, but that trans people exist. They will have to find some other reason to be upset. I'm sure as they do, we can keep working toward a solution that keeps their "arguments" in check and makes the balance even better as a nice side effect.

 

[Vassago]

No, because biological males would continue to dominate in physical competitions, it's science.

This is where other things can categorize them instead of gender, like weight. It's no different than what already exists in many men's sports.

We can't pretend that all of one gender, even biologically, is created equal. This is why so many biological women are even being accused of being trans.

 

[Vassago]

Yes I did, because there's less than a dozen transgender women in those two groups. I can imagine there's many more in the other groups.
However, my question still stands unanswered. Have those transgender women been pummeling biological women, or monopolising the stats?

Not as often as certain groups of people would make you believe. The internet has allowed information to travel so much faster and in the rare instance it does happen, we suddenly see it spread and used as fuel for said group to force opinions from and to their base. It really isn't as large a deal as people make it out to be, it's like the whole trans individuals in the public bathroom debacle. It's been happening for decades and most people never even know when it galena because... and this is shocking.... they are just using the bathroom. Suddenly it's used as some talking point to rile up a base and people start questioning it everywhere, though it's literally never been a problem for decades.

There are many more large and muscular biological women who dominate their sports and could be argued s having an unfair advantage than trans women in women sports. But when certain bases can use it as a talking point, it suddenly becomes big news. When the order was signed banning it in colleges, people acted like it was some huge accomplishment. So you know how many people it impacted? I think the highest count I saw was 5. Across the entire country, 5 people were banned from a sport on Presidential order. It's crazy to look at that as some big win when in reality, the entire "issue" was literally a non-issue for over 99% of the country.

And then you get these bases questioning legitimate biological women who dominate their sports, questioning their gender. It's insane.

There are much bigger problems in the country. This didn't need to get this much attention at all.

If this violates the new rules, please feel free to delete it. But I really must say that this "issue" has been unnecessarily politicized already, so any discussion related will always be political.

 

[KitaYama]

There are many more large and muscular biological women who dominate their sports and could be argued s having an unfair advantage than trans women in women sports.

I'm sorry but It think I have some problem understanding your point.
You mean because some biological female start body building to win, or have bigger body than a normal female, it's fine to allow trans female (men at birth) take part in female sports and dominate them too?

UN study reveals transgender athletes have won nearly 900 medals in women's competitions

The wins occurred in over 400 competitions across 29 sports, study authors said.

kfoxtv.com

 

[KitaYama]

This is where other things can categorize them instead of gender, like weight.

Sports use different competition formats because the physical factors that decide the outcome are different in each sport.
Weight classes are used only where body weight strongly affects performance or creates safety risks.
Sports without weight classes are generally those where skill, speed, technique, coordination, and strategy matter more than raw mass or force.

The two condition that requires sports weight divisions, is Safety and Fairness. In Sports like Boxing, Wrestling,... more muscle mass = more strength. These sports requirs physical strike, throw, or grapple with an opponent, a heavier person can easily injure a lighter one.
In combat sports or strength-based sports, heavier athletes have a natural advantage. That's why they are seperated into different weight divisions.

Other sports is more based on technique and skills. Volleyball, Basketball, Soccer, .... Even very small people can be one of the bests. (Messi, Ronaldo...) In Tennis, a 60 kg player can beat a 80 kg player if they have better technique and speed.In Volleyball, height matters more than weight.

 

[KitaYama]

The question is, are transgender women competing in biological women sport events a significant problem, or is it just being hyped up for other ulterior motives?

I leave the judgement to you. I shared a link above. And again the same link here. Just tell me what you think. Preventing 900 medals go to trans is fair or not?

UN study reveals transgender athletes have won nearly 900 medals in women's competitions

The wins occurred in over 400 competitions across 29 sports, study authors said.

kfoxtv.com

 

[KitaYama]

@BlueSpruce
Let me help you a bit. This is one of those cases:

Laurel Hubbard's Athletic Career Highlights

• Pre-Transition: Hubbard competed in men's weightlifting events at a junior level in her 20s, setting national records in the men's category. She stopped competing for 15 years while struggling with her gender identity.
• Post-Transition: After transitioning to female in her mid-30s, she resumed her career and became eligible to compete in women's events under the International Olympic Committee's (IOC) 2015 guidelines (which required testosterone levels below a certain threshold).
• International Medals: She has won several international medals in the women's category, including:
  • A silver medal at the 2017 World Weightlifting Championships.
  • Two gold medals at the 2019 Pacific Games.
  • A gold medal at the Roma 2020 World Cup.