A Special Thanks to all vets

[qailoh]

Read the previous post and show me were the hypocrisy exists

Your hypocrisy goes a lot farther back than that. I didn't vote for Bush, yet I'm lumped in with all Americans and held accountable for his actions...apparently when a British head of state decides on a course of action that you personally don't agree with, it's because the decision makers were lied to, and that course of action doesn't represent the will of the common citizen. But when an American head of state decides on a course of action that I don't personally agree with, it's because, "like all Americans," I blah blah blah (insert your choice of patented, ignorant and absurd anti-American generalizations in place of the blahs), and am personally culpable for the disastrous course of action Bush has undertaken. In this specific instance, that's where you are being hypocritical.

 

[Rich]

You're avoiding the obvious again, Bush was voted back in by a majority vote, Bliar was not. America was quite happy to support Bush in it's lust for revenge over 9/11, the UK did not react in the same manner, Bliar got back in with a minority vote

 

[qailoh]

You're avoiding the obvious again, Bush was voted back in by a majority vote, Bliar was not. America was quite happy to support Bush in it's lust for revenge over 9/11, the UK did not react in the same manner, Bliar got back in with a minority vote

...and thank you for the patented, ignorant and absurd anti-American generalization...

 

[Rich]

That's the ticket, roll out the usual anti-American charge and deny the facts

 

[qailoh]

That's the ticket, roll out the usual anti-American charge and deny the facts

What facts am I denying? That you refuse to recognize your own hypocrisy? I already admitted that was a pointless exercise.

I do apologize for not aknowledging the fact that a thread dedicated to showing thanks for the sacrifices made by veterans has been hijacked like so many others for the banal purpose of spewing yet more anti-American drivel. For any part I have played in perpetuating this disservice to those who wear or have worn the uniform of their country, I apologize.

 

[Rich]

What facts am I denying? That you refuse to recognize your own hypocrisy? I already admitted that was a pointless exercise.

I do apologize for not aknowledging the fact that a thread dedicated to showing thanks for the sacrifices made by veterans has been hijacked like so many others for the banal purpose of spewing yet more anti-American drivel. For any part I have played in perpetuating this disservice to those who wear or have worn the uniform of their country, I apologize.

ZZzzzzzzzzzz what were the sacrifices for by the way?

 

[GaryPanic]

Guys..
a difference with heads of office

State side you elect a person
UK side we elect a party and the head of that party become PM

now speaking UK side only the way the elections are run is on a first past the post (ie who ever gets the most votes in a area wins) now the winner could win by 1 vote or thousands - no difference
now the areas where the voting takes place has been set up slighly askew (and always has been)
and if you looked at a voting map of the UK it would be mostly blue for conservative with red areas labour a few yellow areas and some greens and others
state side is a 2 party system , UK side is mainly 3 + independents green's extremsts etc

now if we voted ona personal leader blair would have probably never got in ,or at least only once

It is predicted that the conservatives will win about 35% of the commons house - this does not mean that they will get 35% of the vote across the UK
it will be a lot more my local area it will be about 80% conservative 10liberal and some greens (I live in the South East-just below London about 30 miles away)

this wil be repeated accross the country (not on this scale) labour will retain seats but on a lower % of the voting
where they have won these in the past on a small majoristy they will lose these seats- this has been where they have gained the upper hand in the past there were a lot of seats that were marginal -however TBlair has blown it and GBown wil not be able to draw the votes to stay, so they will either -vote for another party , or abstain - by abstaining the core voters for the other parties will win the marginal seats away from goverment.
this change will happen

the UK goverment has been likened to a zombie goverment (a goverement of the dead) as just about everyone knows that come the next election there out and the new guys are in (unless they blow it)

As to supporting the heads of state whether they are a prime mnster/president - I do not support them- i do not enjoy being lied to and the people of american should be upset by this.

please note this is not anti american bashing -just an opion .

as to the men and women laying down their lives -they will and have my support - but not the politics that put them there -this I will stand against

Politicans (both sides of the pond) use this to bully there views accross - you must support your soldiers therefore you must support me.(thats bollocks)
I can support the individual but rant against the policy that put them there . if this seems as if i am anti american- then you are misguided - supporting the president irrespective of what he is doing leads to a real potental for disaster , going back to 1930's the germans support there leader totally and this lead to a stain on this country that 60 years later is still there. (Please forgive me any germans who are reading this - an old wound reopened- but it is the clearest view to show)

again I support the soldiers men and women- but not the polictics

 

[qailoh]

...the rabid anti american set...

GaryPanic, I'm sorry if you felt I was including you in this group, and I certainly hope you aren't including yourself in with them, I figured as a group they were self identifying. I know I've met quite a few people here and elsewhere from the UK who I would not consider "RAA." I just find it tiresome that any attempt to engage in an exchange of ideas in these forums quickly degenerates into a rant by a certain pair of posters against the USA and its people.

But anyway, I'm with you in that although I don't agree with a lot of the leaders who and decisions that send soldiers in to harm's way, I do feel those who choose to wear the uniform in service of their country deserve my respect.

 

[GaryPanic]

I hadn't taken this personally - so no worries on that account

THe american people are by and large really nice people to meet, as are most nations -

there are always a few idiots in every peer group - and these are not a true reflection of the nation as a whole.

its the weekend and i hear it could be fine for a BBQ and a Beer - so thats what i am going to do .

g -#

 

[Rich]

I hadn't taken this personally - so no worries on that account

THe american people are by and large really nice people to meet, as are most nations -

there are always a few idiots in every peer group - and these are not a true reflection of the nation as a whole.

its the weekend and i hear it could be fine for a BBQ and a Beer - so thats what i am going to do .

g -#

But the Europeans now feel we are responsible for the war in Iraq, so much so that many of us are now ashamed of being British, unlike America where the leader was re-elected with a majority and Americans posting here deny having anything to do with his election. And of course Americans aren't ashamed of being American

 

[dan-cat]

As to supporting the heads of state whether they are a prime mnster/president - I do not support them- i do not enjoy being lied to and the people of american should be upset by this.

please note this is not anti american bashing -just an opion .

Gary,

the charge of hypocrisy only comes when certain people use topics like the Iraq war to bash a country when the same topic could easily be applied to the basher's own country. The UK has mirrored the US's foreign policy on Iraq from the very start. The UK populace has allowed, whether by a faulty democratic system or not, for this to continue on and on. The house of commons approved the Iraq war with a clear majority on the March 18 2003 vote. We are four years on from this, and the UK's position has not changed one jot.


The people of America ARE upset. The democrats took control of the senate. Bush was forced to veto a bill passed by congress demanding a timetable for withdrawal. You say that labour's days are numbered unless they blow it, again exactly the same is happening in the US.

Where is the anger we saw in the poll tax riots or the miner's strike? You say the British people are upset, well I say to you, how is the expression of this upset any different to the one of the American people?

 

[Rich]

Bush got elected by a Majority of American voters, Bliar got re-elected by the Scots, spot the difference?

As for the anger displayed over poll tax and not the war in Iraq, you will note the phrase "the largest demonstration in British history"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_the_War_Coalition

 

[dan-cat]

As for the anger displayed over poll tax and not the war in Iraq, you will note the phrase "the largest demonstration in British history"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_the_War_Coalition

From given link:

"Almost all the major British trade unions are affiliated to the Coalition and they are also mostly affiliated to the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament."

and again...


"On 23 September, 2006 a demonstration was held outside the venue for the Labour Party Conference in Manchester which George Galloway, on his TalkSport radio show predicted would have a million protesters. Estimates of attendance varied from "around 20,000" by the police, "up to 50,000" from the Coalition[7], to "more than 50,000" by the Socialist Worker[8]."

There's no genuine anger here, just the same old political hype.

 

[Rich]

I'd like to know how the largest "demonstration in British history" can be dismissed as "the same old political hype"
Is this the same logic that America is still using to justify the current war in Iraq?